Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam licence

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schumaku
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by schumaku »

No doubts, this behaviour is not just customer unfriendly - it's clealy illegal. Complain to QNAP Customer Support Organisation. In my (any my lawyer) view, you have the right for the licensing as per the system specification - which are four camras for your NAS AFAIK.
Hansaplastique wrote:As an owner of a 859 Pro, I wanted to hook up 2 cam's. I never did because I simply didn't have the cams yet.
Unknowingly I upgraded firmware after firmware, never using Surveillance Station. And now that I could get my hand on 2 cams ... I'm screwed and can't use my QNAP for this purpose anymore.
Your TS-859 Pro has Surveillance Station Pro - on what firmware?
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by szhjcn »

I am planning to buy a new NAS as I have run out of space on my old 659 and wanted to move to a SATA III capable device (as I will be buying new drives). However I don't like the fact only one camera license is included. I will therefore look at the competition.
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by schumaku »

szhjcn wrote:However I don't like the fact only one camera license is included. I will therefore look at the competition.
Hope you are aware the direct competitor does require camera licenses, too - and does hide this fact pretty much in the marketing - except of here:
Camera License Pack

Optional camera license packs for installing additional cameras on the (competitor) Surveillance Station

(Competitor) Camera License Packs are designed for expanding cameras set up on the Synology Surveillance Station. By default, one camera license is installed. By applying the license key on the Surveillance Station user interface, you will be able to set up and manage more than one cameras on the network.
Despite of the fact that QNAP has updated the produce specifications recently - there _are_ TS-x69 customers in the field having accquired NAS with twp resp. four licenses (as per the original specs...).
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by dcaughy »

I have many T@-459-Pro, TS-459 Pro+ & TS-459 Pro II NAS's deployed with IP cameras for surveillance monitoring. Each of them run 4 IP cameras. As expected I have additional sites that now require monitoring and purchased additional TS-459 series NAS's for the job. Unfortunately the supplier substituted the TS-469 Pro unit & staff have opened them to configure them for the task of monitoring 4 IP cameras at new locations. I have since found this thread and determined that these devices will all be RMA'd as defective units & am asking the supplier to send the units ordered (TS-459 Pro II).
The TS-469 Pro carton lists "Surveillance Stations - Supports 4 IP Cameras (Optional Purchase) for Network Surveillance". Since it doesn't support 4 cameras out-of-the-box I feel justified in returning these units as failed to the supplier. The surveillance station will only allow me to integrate one IP camera.
QNAP, I am VERY frustrated by this 1 IP camera license limitation when the box states that 4 are supported. I have been a strong supporter of the QNAP products & can hardly believe QNAP would fail their obligations to support 4 IP Cameras as indicated on the box & in advertisments available everywhere. I will NOT purchase Camera licenses under this new licensing model. Without supporting 4 IP cameras I would like to wish QNAP good luck and good-bye. This is truly a dissappointment & a large waste of time/effort for everyone of your customers stung by this narrow sighted move.
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by pwilson »

dcaughy wrote:I have many T@-459-Pro, TS-459 Pro+ & TS-459 Pro II NAS's deployed with IP cameras for surveillance monitoring. Each of them run 4 IP cameras. As expected I have additional sites that now require monitoring and purchased additional TS-459 series NAS's for the job. Unfortunately the supplier substituted the TS-469 Pro unit & staff have opened them to configure them for the task of monitoring 4 IP cameras at new locations. I have since found this thread and determined that these devices will all be RMA'd as defective units & am asking the supplier to send the units ordered (TS-459 Pro II).
The TS-469 Pro carton lists "Surveillance Stations - Supports 4 IP Cameras (Optional Purchase) for Network Surveillance". Since it doesn't support 4 cameras out-of-the-box I feel justified in returning these units as failed to the supplier. The surveillance station will only allow me to integrate one IP camera.
QNAP, I am VERY frustrated by this 1 IP camera license limitation when the box states that 4 are supported. I have been a strong supporter of the QNAP products & can hardly believe QNAP would fail their obligations to support 4 IP Cameras as indicated on the box & in advertisments available everywhere. I will NOT purchase Camera licenses under this new licensing model. Without supporting 4 IP cameras I would like to wish QNAP good luck and good-bye. This is truly a dissappointment & a large waste of time/effort for everyone of your customers stung by this narrow sighted move.
By "Optional Purchase" they mean you can invest an additional $165.00 to purchase 3 more licences @ $55/camera. Not exactly a reward for your repeat business....

Patrick.

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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by BryceWilkins »

pwilson wrote:
dcaughy wrote:I have many T@-459-Pro, TS-459 Pro+ & TS-459 Pro II NAS's deployed with IP cameras for surveillance monitoring. Each of them run 4 IP cameras. As expected I have additional sites that now require monitoring and purchased additional TS-459 series NAS's for the job. Unfortunately the supplier substituted the TS-469 Pro unit & staff have opened them to configure them for the task of monitoring 4 IP cameras at new locations. I have since found this thread and determined that these devices will all be RMA'd as defective units & am asking the supplier to send the units ordered (TS-459 Pro II).
The TS-469 Pro carton lists "Surveillance Stations - Supports 4 IP Cameras (Optional Purchase) for Network Surveillance". Since it doesn't support 4 cameras out-of-the-box I feel justified in returning these units as failed to the supplier. The surveillance station will only allow me to integrate one IP camera.
QNAP, I am VERY frustrated by this 1 IP camera license limitation when the box states that 4 are supported. I have been a strong supporter of the QNAP products & can hardly believe QNAP would fail their obligations to support 4 IP Cameras as indicated on the box & in advertisments available everywhere. I will NOT purchase Camera licenses under this new licensing model. Without supporting 4 IP cameras I would like to wish QNAP good luck and good-bye. This is truly a dissappointment & a large waste of time/effort for everyone of your customers stung by this narrow sighted move.
By "Optional Purchase" they mean you can invest an additional $165.00 to purchase 3 more licences @ $55/camera. Not exactly a reward for your repeat business....

Patrick.
I think the language surrounding camera support is generally vague and easily misinterpreted; it could even intentionally mean different things for different products, and is even written differently on various documents related to the same product. For example:

On the TS-459 Pro datasheet it says: "Supports IP Cameras: 4 Max (Optional Purchase)"
Which without further information, I take to mean the cameras are the optional purchase, which perhaps goes without saying. It is clear obvious that the NAS will support 4 cameras out of the box. Nothing is said about having to purchase licenses to support 4 cameras.

On the TS-469 Pro webpage, the software spec says: "Max. IP Cameras: 12, optional purchase (1 free license included...)"
Which is different to what dcaughy says is on the box: "Surveillance Stations - Supports 4 IP Cameras (Optional Purchase) for Network Surveillance"

From the website, it is clear that the max number of cameras supported is 12, and you get one free camera license to start; "optional purchase" makes sense related to the additional camera licences here.

From the box, "Supports 4 IP Cameras (Optional Purchase)" I again interpret as the cameras being the optional purchase, but it is clear that the NAS supports 4 cameras out of the box...or so it should...

The TS-469 Pro webpage seems to have been updated recently to reflect QNAPs new policy...product packaging still reflects the "old camera policy".

The point is, the new camera licensing policy is unacceptably removing product features that were marketed at the time many of us purchased the NAS, and indeed made purchasing decisions based on those features being available (I know I did). It is unacceptable that those features be removed.
geva

Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by geva »

It seems like a shady bit of ambiguity veiled in silence.

Going into more detail sometimes confuses more than it clarifies, but in this case (now, and in the past), had QNAP clarified what it was claiming it was selling (and us buying), there would be less confusion and potentially false expectations now when they decide to make such a corporate direction change.

Sadly, as there is no clarification or communication on this new licensing overriding existing products, we are left to fend on our own and from my point of view there are only two paths that can be taken. Either QNAP acknowledges the problem and addresses the existing customers, or the existing customers will just lose faith in QNAP delivering what they say they do and will just find other products elsewhere. It is certainly not a market where they are the only player.

Personally, I hope they take the first road and come up with some communication and solution for existing customers to be able to maintain what was sold to them/they bought. This would certainly limit immediate revenue from existing cameras out there, but it would secure customers like ALL OF US in this thread who would continue to spec. and buy units for years to come.

Sadly, the sense that I'm getting is of the old school business model - we decide what we're going to do, and anyone who has a problem with that can shove it. This approach may have worked in the past, but it no longer will, and is certainly not how to build a sustainable business.
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by joelang1699 »

Great! I just shelled out £1900 for a TS-1079P which only supports one IP camera??? Also my other TS-419P devices have now been downgraded to one camera now as I've already updated the the firmware. This is a total disgrace! I was going to install cameras in the next few months as well! All this after the unusable storage issue that went on for many months with constant denials.


Poor show QNAP. Your not the company you once were...not by a long shot :evil:
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by pwilson »

joelang1699 wrote:Great! I just shelled out £1900 for a TS-1079P which only supports one IP camera??? Also my other TS-419P devices have now been downgraded to one camera now as I've already updated the the firmware. This is a total disgrace! I was going to install cameras in the next few months as well! All this after the unusable storage issue that went on for many months with constant denials.


Poor show QNAP. Your not the company you once were...not by a long shot :evil:
You do not have Surveillance Pro yet. You won't experience this until the next major Firmware release.

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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by joelang1699 »

pwilson wrote:
joelang1699 wrote:Great! I just shelled out £1900 for a TS-1079P which only supports one IP camera??? Also my other TS-419P devices have now been downgraded to one camera now as I've already updated the the firmware. This is a total disgrace! I was going to install cameras in the next few months as well! All this after the unusable storage issue that went on for many months with constant denials.


Poor show QNAP. Your not the company you once were...not by a long shot :evil:
You do not have Surveillance Pro yet. You won't experience this until the next major Firmware release.

The point is I will be unable to upgrade the firmware unless I want to loose support for 4 cameras.
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Joe


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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by QNAPJason »

hi everyone,
For those whose NAS already have Surveillance Station v1 with 2 or 4 camera channels, there is no worry. We will provide Surveillance Station Pro QPKG (1 free license as default). You can still keep using your existing IP camera channels while staying with S.S. v1. If you decide to upgrade to Surveillance Station Pro with more powerful features and more IP cam model support, you can install S. S. Pro from QPKG Center (1 free channel by default, with upgradable channel licenses at additional cost. You cannot run both version at the same time as one will disable the other. At any given time, you can uninstall S. S. Pro QPKG and return to Surveillance Station v1.
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by schumaku »

joelang1699 wrote:The point is I will be unable to upgrade the firmware unless I want to loose support for 4 cameras.
The policy is under review. Most likely:
- Surveillance Staiton Pro will not becocme an integrated part of the firmware (QPKG instead)
- The number of camera already configues should be carried forward to Surveillance Station Pro

Evernody understands, this might not be sufficient. Some of the "what'if" questions are not answered:
- Existing NAS, full scratch install?
- Replacementn unit (warranty, update/upgrade)?
- License migration?
...
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by DJF3 »

1. Everybody seems to agree that the old surveillance station was broken/outdated beyond repair. Even in a way where I think they should not even mention the functionality when selling it.

2. Most people also seem to agree on the licensing part.

QNAP: No responses, no feedback, nothing.. Just like with all other issues. You feel like you're stuck being supported by great (non-Qnap) people on this forum.
NOW: they will charge for an "enhancement" which is needed because the old functionality is so broken, outdated and usable is unacceptable. Moving to competition.

Open the Surveillance monitor on QNAP's demo system (3.7.1): "Note: The Surveillance Station Pro only supports 32-bit Internet Explorer version 7.0 or above"
I rest my case... "only supports" = 2005, not 2012..

PS. do you see the frustrations? They had to come out. Feel a lot better now :D
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by schumaku »

DJF3 wrote:Open the Surveillance monitor on QNAP's demo system (3.7.1): "Note: The Surveillance Station Pro only supports 32-bit Internet Explorer version 7.0 or above" I rest my case... "only supports" = 2005, not 2012..
Gee - it's an illusion a Surveillance Station client with the functionality here should run in a browser - does not make any sense for me, ways beyond the capabilities...

Apple Mac OS X Surveillance Station client application is already availabe, the counterpart for WIndows will come with the same new layout as coming with the next QNAP NVR (VioStore) client.
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Re: Surveillance Station Pro - only provide 1 free IPcam lic

Post by DJF3 »

schumaku wrote:
DJF3 wrote:Open the Surveillance monitor on QNAP's demo system (3.7.1): "Note: The Surveillance Station Pro only supports 32-bit Internet Explorer version 7.0 or above" I rest my case... "only supports" = 2005, not 2012..
Gee - it's an illusion a Surveillance Station client with the functionality here should run in a browser - does not make any sense for me, ways beyond the capabilities...
Looking at online applications this is not an illusion, maybe a matter of Qnap's priorities....
I really feel that the surveillance part for storage products has not had the same attention as new features. More like a "check in the box" or "yes we can" implementation. ...Sniff our surveillance but if you really want something, buy our pro solutions.
And this I do understand, but the expectations should be set correctly.

Cheers!
DJ

PS. tnx for your support in these forums.. >16k posts???? :shock:
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