TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

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P3R
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by P3R »

the doivler wrote:1) Is it 2GB per ram slot, or simply 1GB / 2GB (total 3GB)?
The only memory upgrade that is supported is buying memory from the Qnap accesories shop and add it to the empty memory slot of the TS-X59 Pro II. Doing that, 3 GB will be the maximum configuration.

Users have reported here in the forum doing memory upgrades, some have worked and some other doesn't. If you want to go the unsupported path the best way is to search for those forum threads and learn from the reported experience. Not all memory modules work!
2) Am I better off buying 2 x 2GB paired sticks with really good CAS timings, or

3) Better off just buying the suggested un-even 3GB capacity (unmatched CAS timings and capacity)
The question is really if you want to have a supported hardware configuration or if you want the absolute maximum configuration. Maybe you should also ask yourself if you will really need 4 GB?
4) Can you install ANY SODIMM ram in these devices (normal notebook ram)? Or does it have to be a rather specific type of ram that limits my purchase options?
As I said, not all modules work so be very careful and search the forum for more information.
5) Are there any other benefits to purchasing the TS-459 Pro II over the TS-459 Pro+ ? Especially now because the TS-459 Pro+ (apparently) accepts up to 2GB? (according to one of the forums I recently came across, which sparked my questions regarding 2GB ram slots in these machines)
In my opinion far too many users have very exaggerated hopes for a performance increase and upgrade the memory because it is possible, not because they need it. Are you among them also?

The benefits of the TS-X59 Pro II over the TS-X59 Pro+ are support for USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s and memory expansion. In my opinion USB 3.0 is the most important (not for performance as eSATA is faster but for compatibility). SATA 6Gb/s is a nice specification but very few (if any) disks are fast enough to be limited by the SATA 3Gb/s in the TS-X59 Pro+. Memory expansion is only really useful if you need so many services and applications concurrently active that the default memory isn't enough (I don't think many users need it).

At least on my market the price difference is surprisingly small so the TS-X59 Pro II may very well also be choosen over the TS-X59 Pro+ becuase of it's better future-proofing and second-hand value.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
the doivler
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by the doivler »

@ P3R - Cheers for the info above; I have a couple more questions relating to your post:

6) Do you know what CAS timings the QNAP supported RAM modules are? I searched for specs on the SP-1GB-DDR3SO modules, and couldn't find a thing.

7) Didn't even remember, after all my research, that the TS 459 PRO II supported SATA 6Gb/s, while the PRO + did not. This is not especially prudent though, as I intend to put 4 x Western Digital RE4-GP 2TB Enterprise Hard Disks (WD2002FYPS) in the device (unless of course there is a faster / better performing alternative)..

8) Are you able to point me in the direction of some of these threads that talk about RAM modules and which ones work (with the PRO II)? I have scoured this place and must not be using the correct search criteria, because thus far my quest has not yielded any promising results.
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by P3R »

the doivler wrote:6) Do you know what CAS timings the QNAP supported RAM modules are?
No I don't.
7) Didn't even remember, after all my research, that the TS 459 PRO II supported SATA 6Gb/s, while the PRO + did not. This is not especially prudent though, as I intend to put 4 x Western Digital RE4-GP 2TB Enterprise Hard Disks (WD2002FYPS) in the device (unless of course there is a faster / better performing alternative)..
As far as I know that is a slower spinning low power disk with a SATA 3 Gb/s interface. I doubt the differences are huge but I expect most if not all 7200 rpm disks to be faster and you'll likely also see a small improvement with SATA 6 Gb/s disks (at least when the cache is active).

Personally I'm very happy with using 3 TB Hitachi HUA723030ALA640 in the same Qnap model. HUA723020ALA640 is the 2 TB version, if you prefer that.

3*3 TB disks will give you the same usable storage as 4*2 TB in a RAID 5-configuration but with room for future growth and at only a slightly (15 %) higher price. Here you have the Qnap disk compatibility list for reference on other possible alternatives.
8) Are you able to point me in the direction of some of these threads that talk about RAM modules and which ones work (with the PRO II)? I have scoured this place and must not be using the correct search criteria, because thus far my quest has not yielded any promising results.
This is at least one of the threads. Kingston KVR1333D3S8S9/2 seems to be what most are using.
'
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
the doivler
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by the doivler »

@ P3R - Cheers for the RAM link, I will be posting over there from now on with any results.

One point to make for anyone who may be reading this, is that the RAM that is being suggested as a functional upgrade in these QNAP forums (Kingston KVR1333D3S8S9/2) is CL9 RAM. While I am not sure what CAS timings the factory RAM has, CL9 seems rather sluggish and I will be further investigating this on the (other) RAM thread below (cheers to P3R for providing the link).

OTHER :lol: RAM thread: http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=43834

D.
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by P3R »

Are there even any DDR3 1333 MHz SO-DIMMs with a CAS latency below 9 available?

Will a lower CL really make any real world difference in the non-memory intensive application that a NAS is, and when running on an relatively low-performing Intel Atom?
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
the doivler
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by the doivler »

@ P3R
7) Didn't even remember, after all my research, that the TS 459 PRO II supported SATA 6Gb/s, while the PRO + did not. This is not especially prudent though, as I intend to put 4 x Western Digital RE4-GP 2TB Enterprise Hard Disks (WD2002FYPS) in the device (unless of course there is a faster / better performing alternative)..
As far as I know that is a slower spinning low power disk with a SATA 3 Gb/s interface. I doubt the differences are huge but I expect most if not all 7200 rpm disks to be faster and you'll likely also see a small improvement with SATA 6 Gb/s disks (at least when the cache is active).

Personally I'm very happy with using 3 TB Hitachi HUA723030ALA640 in the same Qnap model. HUA723020ALA640 is the 2 TB version, if you prefer that.

3*3 TB disks will give you the same usable storage as 4*2 TB in a RAID 5-configuration but with room for future growth and at only a slightly (15 %) higher price. Here you have the Qnap disk compatibility list for reference on other possible alternatives.
I would consider doing some research online, regarding the Western Digital RE4-GP 2TB Enterprise Hard Disks (WD2002FYPS). Be careful not to confuse these with the former revision during your reading (Western Digital RE4 2TB Enterprise Hard Disks (WD2003FYYS)).

The RE4-GP is apparently a very strong drive, particularly in RAID configurations. As I intend to run RAID 1,0 this should be especially beneficial to me. This hard drive has also been compared (directly) to supposedly superior SATA 3 (6 Gbs) drives, and reviewed favourably much more often than not.

P3R wrote:Are there even any DDR3 1333 MHz SO-DIMMs with a CAS latency below 9 available?
Kingston KHX1333C7S3K2/4G
Ultimate by SPD, DDR3-1333, Unbuffered SO-DIMM 4GB, Latency Timings: 7-7-7-20
Click here for more detailed information, on the Kingston official datasheet.

NOTE (to those who are following): Though I know it exists, I have not yet had a chance to ascertain whether it would actually work in the TS-x59 PRO II series.

P3R wrote:Will a lower CL really make any real world difference in the non-memory intensive application that a NAS is, and when running on an relatively low-performing Intel Atom?
My understanding is 'yes'. In larger applications and data-hungry environments, more bandwidth (commonly higher MHz on a RAM module is considered to mean "broader bandwidth") is stong; in non-intensive environments lower latency RAM modules excel. I believe this could only serve to aid a smaller processor, not encumber it or be nullified by it.

As always I appreciate the feedback so keep it coming ;)
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by P3R »

the doivler wrote:I would consider doing some research online, regarding the Western Digital RE4-GP 2TB Enterprise Hard Disks (WD2002FYPS).
Yes, it was the GP I looked at.
The RE4-GP is apparently a very strong drive, particularly in RAID configurations. As I intend to run RAID 1,0 this should be especially beneficial to me. This hard drive has also been compared (directly) to supposedly "superior" SATA 3 (6 Gbs) drives, and reviewed favourably much more often than not.
In the reviews I'm able to find it is only compared with older and/or desktop disks so it would be interesting if you could please provide links.

I agree that SATA 6 Gb/s makes little difference, because with mechanical disks SATA 3 Gb/s isn't really a bottleneck. The only time I believe SATA 6 Gb/s will be truly beneficial is when data is served from the onboard cache, so it will only be faster in short bursts. But all later disk models have SATA 6 Gb/s today and there's no price premium for it so when having a NAS with the faster interface, why not take advantage of whatever positive effect it may have? More important for performance I think would be the slower rpm of the RE4-GP, whatever it is (WD doesn't reveal it). All though those are only some of the things theoretically affecting performance so real performance measurements is what really counts.

When comparing the sustained transfer rate the WD RE4-GP is specified at 110 MB/sec while the Hitachi HUA723030ALA640 (3 TB) and HUA723020ALA640 (2 TB) are above 150 MB/sec.
Kingston KHX1333C7S3K2/4G
Ultimate by SPD, DDR3-1333, Unbuffered SO-DIMM 4GB, Latency Timings: 7-7-7-20
Click here for more detailed information, on the Kingston official datasheet.
Thank you. I understand now why I didn't find any. I searched for 2 GB memory but those hi-end modules are always sold in pairs so marketed as 4 GB.
My understanding is 'yes'. In larger applications and data-hungry environments, more bandwidth (commonly higher MHz on a RAM module is considered to mean "broader bandwidth") is stong; in non-intensive environments lower latency RAM modules excel.
Well yes of course latency is more important than bandwidth in this case. But being more important than something else doesn't necessarily mean it is important enough to be noticeable when used in a system. The interesting thing is if the memory access is really a bottleneck in a NAS application. I believe not, but that's only my gut feeling so go ahead and prove me wrong. :wink:
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
swissGerman
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by swissGerman »

I just upgraded my TS 459 Pro (no "+", no "II" Model, the ordinary older TS 459 Pro).
Kingston ValueRAM, 2GB, DDR2-800, CL6, SO-DIMM type KVR800D2S6/2G works perfect.
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by DreamWave »

I just upgraded my TS-659Pro+ with Kingston KVR800D2S6/2G and it works. :D
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by incognitoagent »

I just upgraded my TS-459 Pro's memory (http://bit.ly/MEH1VR) from a 1GB DDR2 800(6) 1GX8 SO-DIMM (SU2S800B1G6-B) to a 2GB DDR2 800(6) 2GX16 SO-DIMM (AD2S800B2G6-R) for 900NTD on 27 Jun 2012.

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bulletdodger
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by bulletdodger »

Rapid-eraser wrote: hehe I've upgraded my TS-459Pro+ to 2GB :) using the soDIMM mentioned (Kingston KVR800D2S5/2G ) I can confirm that all went and system is up and running without any configuration and working even faster :)
I also have a TS-459Pro+ that I recently purchased in March 2012 with a manufacture date of January 2012 (QNAP support told me this from the serial number). I just upgraded the RAM using the Kingston KVR1333D3S8S9/2G SODIMM and the system is up and running perfectly. At first I had purchased a KVR800D2S5/2G as per "Rapid-eraser" but when I opened up the box, it had a DDR3 SODIMM in there so I exchanged it. Before buying anything to upgrade, I would open up the box and take out the existing module to determine which one is suitable for your system.
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by schumaku »

bulletdodger wrote:At first I had purchased a KVR800D2S5/2G as per "Rapid-eraser" but when I opened up the box, it had a DDR3 SODIMM in there...
As per the KVR800D2S5/2G spec sheet http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/kvr800d2s5_2g.pdf it's DDR2:
KVR800D2S5/2G
2GB 256M x 64-Bit DDR2-800
CL5 200-Pin SODIMM
bulletdodger
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by bulletdodger »

schumaku wrote:
bulletdodger wrote:At first I had purchased a KVR800D2S5/2G as per "Rapid-eraser" but when I opened up the box, it had a DDR3 SODIMM in there...
As per the KVR800D2S5/2G spec sheet http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/kvr800d2s5_2g.pdf it's DDR2:
KVR800D2S5/2G
2GB 256M x 64-Bit DDR2-800
CL5 200-Pin SODIMM
Sorry what I meant was: I first purchased a KVR800D2S5/2G (which is a DDR2) as per "Rapid-eraser" but when I opened up my QNAP-TS459Pro+ box, it had a DDR3 SODIMM in there .....
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by mordorf »

If anyone is thinking about upgrading their TS-259 Pro+ I have found that Kingston 2GB 1333MHz DDR3 Non ECC CL9 SODIMM Single Rank x 8 works just fine and is very cheap from Amazon :D

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003 ... 01_s00_i00
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Re: TS-459 Pro RAM upgrade to 2GB

Post by schumaku »

One SO-DIM slot on ARM - max. 2 GB per slot ... and there is only one.
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