Got a new TS-870 today, installed a RAID Array + a 240 GB Intel SSD and installed the latter as a SSD Cache. Everything looks fine in the settings window but there are no cache hits.
The list of volumes that the SSD shall cache is empty, I guess that's the problem and what can I do? I removed the cache disk and reconfigured with the same results... I run 4.0.5 by the way.
SSD cache not working [Solved]
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philipsguy
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SSD cache not working [Solved]
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Last edited by philipsguy on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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philipsguy
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Re: SSD cache to working
Here a screen shot of the empty volumes list
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schumaku
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Re: SSD cache not working
Unless I'm wrong, legacy volumes are not available for caching.
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philipsguy
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Re: SSD cache not working
Thanks for the reply. Volume 1 is formatted with EXT4. How can I tell if it's a legacy volume and what is the opposite of "legacy", storage pool?schumaku wrote:Unless I'm wrong, legacy volumes are not available for caching.
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philipsguy
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Re: SSD cache not working
OK, I removed the volume I created earlier and created a storage pool with a volume on it, and there was an option for enabling SSD cache.
Thanks for the hint. Luckily I hadn't put anything important on the first volume so it wasn't a big deal but others beware...
Thanks for the hint. Luckily I hadn't put anything important on the first volume so it wasn't a big deal but others beware...
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
Just setting up my 870. I started with a fresh storage pool then volume. When I stuck an ssd in there, its recognised as such, but when I go to configure ssd cache, it does not show up in the available list to turn into cache?
I am running 4.0.5
Is recognized as and is an ocz vertex 3.
Doesn't seem to matter if its assigned to a raid group, set as a spare, or assigned to nothing. It shows up in the disks lists as "free", yet I cannot assign it. Its 256gb and the nas comes with 2gb ram. The doco does not go that low in ram requirements vs cache size, but seems to suggests there is no problems selecting multiple ssd's and expanding the cache, and clearly there is a picture of someone selecing like a 120gb ssd drive on some qnap nas.
Thats the only reason I could think It would not show up...
No problems if I make a new pool and and it as a new drive, and I can use it.
Anything else I need to do other than have it reconized as an ssd, free disk to be able to assign it as ssd cache?
I am running 4.0.5
Is recognized as and is an ocz vertex 3.
Doesn't seem to matter if its assigned to a raid group, set as a spare, or assigned to nothing. It shows up in the disks lists as "free", yet I cannot assign it. Its 256gb and the nas comes with 2gb ram. The doco does not go that low in ram requirements vs cache size, but seems to suggests there is no problems selecting multiple ssd's and expanding the cache, and clearly there is a picture of someone selecing like a 120gb ssd drive on some qnap nas.
Thats the only reason I could think It would not show up...
No problems if I make a new pool and and it as a new drive, and I can use it.
Anything else I need to do other than have it reconized as an ssd, free disk to be able to assign it as ssd cache?
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philipsguy
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
Have you added it as a SSD cache like in my screen shots in post 1?
Perhaps try my solution, recreate the storage pool and volume, there should be an option for connecting the SSD cache to new pool in one of the steps...
Bit odd if it works this way, if so it's a bit hard to add a SSD cache at later stage after creating your pool and volume.
Perhaps try my solution, recreate the storage pool and volume, there should be an option for connecting the SSD cache to new pool in one of the steps...
Bit odd if it works this way, if so it's a bit hard to add a SSD cache at later stage after creating your pool and volume.
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
When I go to add the ssd cache manually having an existing storage pool with a volume, the screen is, ok, so here are your available disks. None.
I've started adding data already, so I'd be really disssapointed if I had to move a few tb off just to add the caching as well as the future for anyone else adding ssd's to existing new non legacy volumes in the future so I am really hoping thats not it.
I am planning on adding some more disks once I get data off another nas onto this one, maybe I'll try adding as part of creating that volume.
I've started adding data already, so I'd be really disssapointed if I had to move a few tb off just to add the caching as well as the future for anyone else adding ssd's to existing new non legacy volumes in the future so I am really hoping thats not it.
I am planning on adding some more disks once I get data off another nas onto this one, maybe I'll try adding as part of creating that volume.
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
Solved.
Well I did'nt get to add the new disks yet. Copying old laptop hdd with fcp and lightroom caches and renders all over them, is stuck "preparing to copy" from the drobo (yes there is a lot of file). Going to try make a disk image of them, and try again.
In the meantime. Mystery solved. When you use the wizard to create a new storage pool and have a disk/ssd not where it should be, the wizard tells you. When you set ssd cache manually, it just does not show up, and doesn't tell you why.
Reason. SSD's need to be in tray 7 or 8. I had read yesterday some models need them in certian trays, pretty sure either this model was not on the list, of it said "any tray". But there you go. Having put the ssd in one of the designated trays, went back to check that I could add the SSD cache to an existing storage volume. No problems, worked fine.
Well I did'nt get to add the new disks yet. Copying old laptop hdd with fcp and lightroom caches and renders all over them, is stuck "preparing to copy" from the drobo (yes there is a lot of file). Going to try make a disk image of them, and try again.
In the meantime. Mystery solved. When you use the wizard to create a new storage pool and have a disk/ssd not where it should be, the wizard tells you. When you set ssd cache manually, it just does not show up, and doesn't tell you why.
Reason. SSD's need to be in tray 7 or 8. I had read yesterday some models need them in certian trays, pretty sure either this model was not on the list, of it said "any tray". But there you go. Having put the ssd in one of the designated trays, went back to check that I could add the SSD cache to an existing storage volume. No problems, worked fine.
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
Phillipsguy,
Did you find it make any difference to what you are doing with it? I know its meant primarily to make a difference to iops for sql and virtualisation. I was kinds of hoping it actually kind of rolled the tiered stoage idea in at the same time. Eg, if I am doing a timelapse processing run, instead of having a seperate cache on non qnap local drive (which also for some operations does not help as the files themselves need to be reprocessed by other apps), I should be able to store them on qnap, turn on ssd cache. Then when I read them more than once, they come off the ssd.
In practice this does not seem to make any difference. I am about to go 10gbe with this thing (I have with another qnap in the past), and am going to love the speed I get out of raid 10 for moving large video files around.
Using internal in the qnap, and external usb3 connected ssd's, I can get the full speed of the ssd. (in this case 200-400MB/s range). Coming off the qnap to my mac over 1gbe I am getting about 90Mb/s of current 4 disk r5, and saturating the 1gbe link at 120mb/s ish from the internal ssd.
Using backup manager and copying to and from internal/external ssd's I am getting full speed from the ssd's.
Using backup manager and coming from the r5 to external ssd, I am maxing out still at 90.
I then see the cache hits on the ssd and trigger another job, same source (r5), different folder on external ssd. Again, cache hit, but no speed improvment.
I am using the default LRU cache method, ssd cache is enabled on the volume. And my 5gb test file is the only thing I am copying since I established the cache on the 256gb ssd.
Before I forever sacrifice a bay (since you cannot add the ssd cache as a usb3 or esata device), in the hopes it will actually function as a cache. I'd like to notice a speed improvement (not just access times, but if the ssd is faster than my spinning raid set.
I could of course make the most of the low ms access times and repeat the test with a bunch of small files. But I would actually expect a large file read from cache to come off the ssd at the speed its clearly capable of when directly copying externally.
I can also retest once I am all 10gbe. But since I am going to be R10, I am giving up a lot of storage by taking out a bay for the ssd.
Anyone else actually done any speed tests with the ssd cache function?
Did you find it make any difference to what you are doing with it? I know its meant primarily to make a difference to iops for sql and virtualisation. I was kinds of hoping it actually kind of rolled the tiered stoage idea in at the same time. Eg, if I am doing a timelapse processing run, instead of having a seperate cache on non qnap local drive (which also for some operations does not help as the files themselves need to be reprocessed by other apps), I should be able to store them on qnap, turn on ssd cache. Then when I read them more than once, they come off the ssd.
In practice this does not seem to make any difference. I am about to go 10gbe with this thing (I have with another qnap in the past), and am going to love the speed I get out of raid 10 for moving large video files around.
Using internal in the qnap, and external usb3 connected ssd's, I can get the full speed of the ssd. (in this case 200-400MB/s range). Coming off the qnap to my mac over 1gbe I am getting about 90Mb/s of current 4 disk r5, and saturating the 1gbe link at 120mb/s ish from the internal ssd.
Using backup manager and copying to and from internal/external ssd's I am getting full speed from the ssd's.
Using backup manager and coming from the r5 to external ssd, I am maxing out still at 90.
I then see the cache hits on the ssd and trigger another job, same source (r5), different folder on external ssd. Again, cache hit, but no speed improvment.
I am using the default LRU cache method, ssd cache is enabled on the volume. And my 5gb test file is the only thing I am copying since I established the cache on the 256gb ssd.
Before I forever sacrifice a bay (since you cannot add the ssd cache as a usb3 or esata device), in the hopes it will actually function as a cache. I'd like to notice a speed improvement (not just access times, but if the ssd is faster than my spinning raid set.
I could of course make the most of the low ms access times and repeat the test with a bunch of small files. But I would actually expect a large file read from cache to come off the ssd at the speed its clearly capable of when directly copying externally.
I can also retest once I am all 10gbe. But since I am going to be R10, I am giving up a lot of storage by taking out a bay for the ssd.
Anyone else actually done any speed tests with the ssd cache function?
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
And it gets stranger. According to this slide, the main performance gain is random reads, and they've not implemented write yet.
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4922/4/ ... erformance
So I took 16,000 file totalling 4gb (a small lightroom cache (have others that are 80gb)).
Copying them from ssd onto the r5, 60MB/s 1min10sec
I saw the cache hit graph which must be like a file count rather than volume from the cache counter (makes sense, "hits"). Last file copy (single 5gb file), its at 4%, Now It jumps up to 90+ pc copying the files onto the nas. Promising.
I then copy the files off to the ssd, no speed improvment, no hit counter goes up... No biggies, must be when they are read a 2nd time.
Copy them again, same source folder on the r5, to new folder external ssd. 42Mb,s 1min 35sec !!???
Wha?
I'm guessing for sure there is no tiered storage going on here like some of the synologies (even though the marketing kind of gives you the impression its that simple_, and I should give up the cache being useful for adding speed to small file reads over and above spinning disks and reclaim the bay.
I would at least expect the small random reads to copy off faster from the r5 the 2nd time with the caching on, not slower...
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4922/4/ ... erformance
So I took 16,000 file totalling 4gb (a small lightroom cache (have others that are 80gb)).
Copying them from ssd onto the r5, 60MB/s 1min10sec
I saw the cache hit graph which must be like a file count rather than volume from the cache counter (makes sense, "hits"). Last file copy (single 5gb file), its at 4%, Now It jumps up to 90+ pc copying the files onto the nas. Promising.
I then copy the files off to the ssd, no speed improvment, no hit counter goes up... No biggies, must be when they are read a 2nd time.
Copy them again, same source folder on the r5, to new folder external ssd. 42Mb,s 1min 35sec !!???
Wha?
I'm guessing for sure there is no tiered storage going on here like some of the synologies (even though the marketing kind of gives you the impression its that simple_, and I should give up the cache being useful for adding speed to small file reads over and above spinning disks and reclaim the bay.
I would at least expect the small random reads to copy off faster from the r5 the 2nd time with the caching on, not slower...
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schumaku
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
Nothing strange - you don't want to run a write cache to a non-redundant SSD, do you?ksteele wrote:According to this slide, the main performance gain is random reads, and they've not implemented write yet.
For a write cache ... I'd prefer at least a dedicated RAID1.
No doubts, there is room to enhance the SSD caching in any direction.
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
I suspect maybe since it has two spots allocated for ssd, aside from expanding size by possibly/probably jboding them under the hood, no reason they couldn't mirror a couple to use as a write cache I suppose. Dedicateed raid 1 as you said
It's odd that no one is really put the marketing claim of your most recent files will come blazing off the ssd to much of a test... The reality is proabably aside from 'just testing" where most people already probably have those bays full, and its a pain to copy off or reconfigure their raid to test - really it only matters if you are 10gbe anyway... small crowd at the moment...
I guess maybe I should ask qnap support before I go dropping cash on an extra 4tb for those two bays in r10.
Really would like an ssd cache to work for read speeds as I think advertised.
It's odd that no one is really put the marketing claim of your most recent files will come blazing off the ssd to much of a test... The reality is proabably aside from 'just testing" where most people already probably have those bays full, and its a pain to copy off or reconfigure their raid to test - really it only matters if you are 10gbe anyway... small crowd at the moment...
I guess maybe I should ask qnap support before I go dropping cash on an extra 4tb for those two bays in r10.
Really would like an ssd cache to work for read speeds as I think advertised.
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philipsguy
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
@ksteele
In my case I need fast random reads as I use the TS for storage of virtual machine files in HyperV. Using multichannel iSCSI /two parallell Ethernet Connections) I currently get up to 160 MB/s with a cache hit of about 50%. I guess it will also reduce the wear on the mechanical drives.
In my case I need fast random reads as I use the TS for storage of virtual machine files in HyperV. Using multichannel iSCSI /two parallell Ethernet Connections) I currently get up to 160 MB/s with a cache hit of about 50%. I guess it will also reduce the wear on the mechanical drives.
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ksteele
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Re: SSD cache not working [Solved]
And I think that is an ideal use and the intended use.
I've given up. You really only get time to try these things when you are building, then you fill it with data and you cant try anything without breaking raids.
I'll fill my bays and use local ssd external storage for all manner of previews etc and just wait until ssd's in larger capacities come down in price. At least this nas has usb3 so if I need to get the whole lot off I am not waiting a week. I can always turn it into a 7 disk r0 with a spare, and then rtrr to another nas if I really need more speed for 4k etc. Just wont help for my timelapse processing. I'll try and split up my project so what I am working on fits on a little usb3 raidon 4x512gb ssd I made. Not all processing steps are off lightroom and a local cache, bulk small file access does count.
was just hoping to get that faster larger space by using ssd cache in the nas.
I've given up. You really only get time to try these things when you are building, then you fill it with data and you cant try anything without breaking raids.
I'll fill my bays and use local ssd external storage for all manner of previews etc and just wait until ssd's in larger capacities come down in price. At least this nas has usb3 so if I need to get the whole lot off I am not waiting a week. I can always turn it into a 7 disk r0 with a spare, and then rtrr to another nas if I really need more speed for 4k etc. Just wont help for my timelapse processing. I'll try and split up my project so what I am working on fits on a little usb3 raidon 4x512gb ssd I made. Not all processing steps are off lightroom and a local cache, bulk small file access does count.
was just hoping to get that faster larger space by using ssd cache in the nas.