Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

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jbrwilkinson
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Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by jbrwilkinson »

So the firmware update 4.1.2 (http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=7 ... l+#p452700) enables multiple RAID groups in Storage Pools for TS-x51 devices.

These devices are aimed at SOHO users: http://www.qnap.com/static/products/com ... ll_NAS.php

From my reading: ..it seems like I should be using a my new TS-451 with 4 x 2TB WD Red drives as a single Storage Pool with a single RAID-6 group (I want lots of redundancy until my backup solution is built).

Can anyone comment on the suitability of Storage Pools for home use? do we need it?
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pwilson
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by pwilson »

jbrwilkinson wrote:So the firmware update 4.1.2 (http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=7 ... l+#p452700) enables multiple RAID groups in Storage Pools for TS-x51 devices.

These devices are aimed at SOHO users: http://www.qnap.com/static/products/com ... ll_NAS.php

From my reading: ..it seems like I should be using a my new TS-451 with 4 x 2TB WD Red drives as a single Storage Pool with a single RAID-6 group (I want lots of redundancy until my backup solution is built).

Can anyone comment on the suitability of Storage Pools for home use? do we need it?
Home users only need Storage Pools, if they purchase QNAP NAS devices that use them. :shock:
Your TS-451 uses Storage Pools, so you have no choice. (They are an improvement, so you actually should "want" them).

Perhaps you prefer the limitations of a 16TB filesystem and 16TB expansion limitations as provided by "legacy" models running "legacy" Storage Volumes?

As a Home user you are unlikely to ever setup multiple RAIDs on your NAS, or setup dedicated iSCSI block devices on your NAS, but I hope it is comforting to know that you can do so if you want. I have 4 * 3TB WD Reds here, and I too have them configured as a single RAID Storage Pool. (I chose RAID5 here, for 8.1TB of space; Your NAS with 4 * 2TB in RAID6, you'll end up with a "tiny" 3.6TB of storage).

For your Backups, simply purchase an external USB3.0/eSATA Drive Dock.
Image

This will allow you to use multiple "loose" drives with your NAS, without have to purchase an enclosure for each drive. Simply Hot-Swap your Backup drives via the Dock as needed. Drive Docks are cheap. I paid less than $50USD for mine.

Your NAS already provides a Backup Solution for you. You simply need to provide the Dock, and the drives. As long as you backup your Linux NAS to Linux (Ext4) formatted Backup media, you'll find it quite easy to do, and you will be unlikely to experience issues.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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jbrwilkinson
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by jbrwilkinson »

Hmmm.. the Storage Manager says I have no Storage Pools yet - see attachment.

I set up the NAS by following the quick setup/wizard procedure.

So, do I have 'legacy volumes' and need to start again using a Storage Pool with a single RAID group?
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Nees
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by Nees »

This is normal and confusing. The initial setup only offers to create volume. Not a storage pool first and then a volume.

This is why I skipped disk setup and did it manually afterwards. If you want to use storage pools, you need to start from scratch and first add all disks to a storage pool and then create the volume on top of the pool.

It is weird that the firmware, for a "first boot" setup, doesn't offer the Storage Pool option.
TS-639_Pro-Raid6-WD_RE_GP-3.8.4_20130816
TS-853_Pro-Raid6-WD_RE_4-4.1.3_20150313
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pwilson
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by pwilson »

Nees wrote:This is normal and confusing. The initial setup only offers to create volume. Not a storage pool first and then a volume.

This is why I skipped disk setup and did it manually afterwards. If you want to use storage pools, you need to start from scratch and first add all disks to a storage pool and then create the volume on top of the pool.

It is weird that the firmware, for a "first boot" setup, doesn't offer the Storage Pool option.
QNAP actually has a Tutorial for this: How to create multiple volumes after upgrading to QTS 4.1.2 in model TS-x51/53.

Patrick M. Wilson
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QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by jbrwilkinson »

Yes, I linked to this in my initial post.

It is very frustrating that I need to rebuild due to the setup process picking the non-optimal option.
AdrianW
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by AdrianW »

pwilson wrote: Home users only need Storage Pools, if they purchase QNAP NAS devices that use them. :shock:
Your TS-451 uses Storage Pools, so you have no choice. (They are an improvement, so you actually should "want" them).
This is not an answer. Just because a user has a device that has the option of storage pools doesn't mean you need them.

I'm just setting up my new TS-853 - and when I click "Create Volume" it gives me the option of "Static Volume" with the description "This mode gives the best performance without advanced features such as thin provisioning and snapshot".

I can't see why I'd want thin provisioning and snapshot in preference to best performance.

Can someone answer that question?

Main question: I have a fully populated NAS (8 x 6TB drives). I want a single RAID 6 array using all eight drives. I can create either a STATIC VOLUME or a STORAGE POOL (containing a Thick or Thin Volume). The benefit of the STATIC VOLUME is that it has the best performance - so what is the benefit of using STORAGE POOL?
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pwilson
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by pwilson »

AdrianW wrote:
pwilson wrote: Home users only need Storage Pools, if they purchase QNAP NAS devices that use them. :shock:
Your TS-451 uses Storage Pools, so you have no choice. (They are an improvement, so you actually should "want" them).
This is not an answer. Just because a user has a device that has the option of storage pools doesn't mean you need them.


This is technically correct, however, all the other SMB models use "Storage Pools". If you switch to "Storage Pools" your NAS will be setup like the rest of us, and we can help support you. The TS-x51/x53 models are unique right now in that they use LVM but not "Storage Pools". It is your hardware, so at least for the present you do have a choice. I suspect that this "choice" will disappear over time, as QNAP brings all the SMB models into line with the same configuration.

Those of us that setup SMB models under QTS 3.x.x had to do a similar switch over in order to be able to fully take advantage of QTS 4.x.x. I bit the bullet right away, as I wanted to do it early so I'd require less Backup media to get the job done, and so I got this chore out of the way.
AdrianW wrote:I'm just setting up my new TS-853 - and when I click "Create Volume" it gives me the option of "Static Volume" with the description "This mode gives the best performance without advanced features such as thin provisioning and snapshot".
You don't get the Storage Pools capability on your NAS until you upgrade to QTS 4.1.2 Build 20141231 (or higher). I already provided the Tutorial for switching over.
AdrianW wrote:I can't see why I'd want thin provisioning and snapshot in preference to best performance.
Thick provisioning provides better performance. If you only intend to create a single Storage Pool, you probably want "Thick" provisioning, as you will be putting all the storage into a single Storage Pool in all probability. (Thin provisioning is helpful when you want to "over-provision", if you are going to make a single Pool, you won't want to over-provision).

I suggest that you should want Storage Pools, (even if only creating a single one), but you probably do not want "Thin provisioning".
If I owned an 8-Bay NAS I would probably set it up as 2 * RAID5 (4 drives each), or RAID6 (8 drives). Both provide the same storage size. Dual RAID5 will permit upgrading only 4 drives at a time, so it will make upgrades easier/cheaper as your storage needs increase. A single RAID6 provides double redundancy, but future upgrades require replacing all 8 drives at once, it is however easier to manage as it is a single Pool

It is however your hardware, so you can set it up anyway you want.

Patrick M. Wilson
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by AdrianW »

I upgraded to QTS 4.1.2 Build 20141231 as soon as I got the NAS out of the box this afternoon.

I've gone ahead and created a single storage pool containing all 8 drives, and then created a thick volume in the pool. (I'm using RAID 6).

But, I'd really like to know what advantage this is giving me over the Static Volume? Especially as the Static Volume has the best performance.
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by pwilson »

AdrianW wrote:I upgraded to QTS 4.1.2 Build 20141231 as soon as I got the NAS out of the box this afternoon.

I've gone ahead and created a single storage pool containing all 8 drives, and then created a thick volume in the pool. (I'm using RAID 6).

But, I'd really like to know what advantage this is giving me over the Static Volume? Especially as the Static Volume has the best performance.
Ease of upgrade, and >16TB Volumes, including "expansion" to >16TB Volumes. The other advantages of Storage Pools won't be useful to you, unless you decide to play with Block based iSCSI.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.2.0 Build 20151023 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit)
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by AdrianW »

pwilson wrote: Ease of upgrade, and >16TB Volumes, including "expansion" to >16TB Volumes. The other advantages of Storage Pools won't be useful to you, unless you decide to play with Block based iSCSI.
I was given the option of creating a 32.53TB static volume - so I don't think that 16TB limit applies any more.

I've filled the entire NAS with 6TB drives - so "expansion" isn't even on the cards. Although, I suppose if they come out with larger drives (I'm not counting those seagate 8TB drives), I could swap the drives out - but you can do that with a Static Volume anyway.

So, it doesn't sound like there's any benefit to Storage Pools in my situation.
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by sjakub »

AdrianW wrote:So, it doesn't sound like there's any benefit to Storage Pools in my situation.
In case you are still interested, I run some tests to compare thick volumes (on a storage pool) and static volumes.
Results are here: http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... 52#p460052
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by 8bitkid »

I have a TS-451 with 2 WD RED 4TB drives, and recently gained the option to leverage storage pools. I am only ever planning on having a single Volume, because I only use this as a media server appliance.

Is there any reason for me to setup a storage pool? I imagine I would back everything up, create the pool, and then copy DataVol1 back. Since it seems I'd only have 1 storage pool and 1 volume, I'm not sure what the benefit would be... I've read through many threads, but can't really figure out...
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by schumaku »

8bitkid wrote:I have a TS-451 with 2 WD RED 4TB drives, and recently gained the option to leverage storage pools. I am only ever planning on having a single Volume, because I only use this as a media server appliance. Is there any reason for me to setup a storage pool?
Actually installed 2 * 4 TB (assuming RAID1) ... that's a good example: If you want to add two more HDD in a year or two, you can add two 6 TB or 8 TB drives, create a RAID1 group, and add to the existing Storage pool. Result: a 10 TB storage volume. Pre-requirement: A Storage Pool with the 2 * 4 GB RAID Group.

Note: A Storage Pool represent a single volume.
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Re: Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

Post by sjakub »

You don't need storage pools to expand a volume with a new RAID group.
You can do this with "static single volume" too.
I don't know, however, if it's possible with legacy volumes.
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