Do home users have a use/need for Storage Pools?

[MrVideo]

If they are a Legacy Volume, you need to convert over to a Storage Pool before you can "expand" it.

But here is the kicker... aren't legacy volumes a part of the pre-4 firmware? Are 4.1.x static volumes really legacy? The manual certainly doesn't say one way or the other. How can one tell? If a user was given the option to build a static volume that was > 16TB, who says that drives can't be added to the RAID or that larger drives can't be swapped i and then the RAID expanded to the larger size. The manual certain doesn't say one way or the other. It talks about how volumes can be expanded, but not if it only applies to volumes that are part of storage pools. I'm saying that a volume is a volume, be it static or part of a storage pool.

The 3.8 manual is very extensive and has many illustrations. One of the examples goes from a single disk setup to a multi-disk RAID5, without loss of data. The other examples increase the size of the RAID by replacing the drives, one at a time, or by adding drives to the RAID. All of these options are available to the 3.8 legacy volume. So why would those options disappear from a 4.1.x static volume? IMHO, they don't.

The manual does define what can be done with Storage Pools, but even this information is apparently wrong in the Manual. The manual clearly states that you can not migrate from RAID1 to RAID5/6/10, but apparently you can do so despite what the manual says.

True, storage pools and volumes (not static) do get better instructions than static volumes. But, as I indicate above, I'm guessing that the manual doesn't distinguish between static volumes or volumes used in a storage. It applies to both. I'd love to be able to test out this theory, but I do not want to start over just to test a theory. If I had a spare NAS box, I could test it with a bunch of 2TB drives. Anyone willing to loan me a 4, 6 or 8 bay x69L box?

The Manual needs a lot of work IMHO. The 4.0 manual has about 3 times the number of screenshots than the 4.1 manual. I hope QNAP does a far better job of documentation with the QTS 4.2.0 manual.

The PDF version of the 4.1 manual has hardly any illuistrations. Only the online version has more. I do not understand why the difference.

I doubt a ticket will make a difference. The present manual is an embarrassment IMHO. It is not only incomplete, but it contains information that is just plain wrong.

Since QNAP does not really read this forum, it is quite possible that those who are in charge of the manual creation might not be reading the user complaints about it. A ticket might, just might, get to documentation management.

[MrVideo]

If I had a spare NAS box, I could test it with a bunch of 2TB drives.

It dawned on me after posting this that I can use my own NAS to do some testing. Since I am only using four of my bays, I can take the four remaining trays and put 2TB drives in them. I can then power down the NAS and pull the four 6TB drives and replace them with two of the 2TB drives and bring the NAS back up.

Because the 2TB drives are NTFS, the NAS will look at them as being new. I can leave it running with DHCP, since all I am doing is testing static volumes.

When the testing is done, I can pull those drives and put my 6TB drives back in and continue as if nothing changed.

Just a thought.

[fourtech]

ALWAYS USE STORAGE POOL WITH QNAP's!

just did a test on this. Configured raid 5 without a storage pool and got 8MB/s on a 2GB file transfer... then deleted the raid 5 and reconfigured though the storage pool wizard (same raid 5, same drives) and tested at 60MB/s with a 2GB file transfer! No brain'er here, no matter what you are using it for configure it with a storage pool. =)

[P3R]

ALWAYS USE STORAGE POOL WITH QNAP's!

just did a test on this. Configured raid 5 without a storage pool and got 8MB/s on a 2GB file transfer... then deleted the raid 5 and reconfigured though the storage pool wizard (same raid 5, same drives) and tested at 60MB/s with a 2GB file transfer! No brain'er here, no matter what you are using it for configure it with a storage pool. =)

1. Not all NASes support storage pools (for example, the TS-459 Pro in your signature doesn't).
2. There's something very wrong with your test results. If there's a performance difference, there's no way that it'd be that huge.

[mnemonic]

I been trying to wrap my head around storage pools and reading your thread here. I have a static volume with 4 * 3 TB WD Red in RAID10 and I just swapped them out, one by one to 5TB drives and now expanding the volume. Wich I now figure was a waste of time since you need to rebuild it to use storagepools, but anyway. I am thinking a little bit like pwilson mentioned. I now sit here with this option.. I got 4*5TB drives and 4*2TB drives in a 8 bay nas (TS-879 pro). If I add all 8 drives in a pool as a single raid-5 then it will follow the 2TB disks right? So the better option is to do 4 disk 5TB in a raid 5 and a 4 disk 2TB in another raid and then I can have them in the same storagepool as one single volume? is that how it works? And I get the benefit like pwilson mention to only switch 4 drives if i need to expand the raid?
But I read I need to backup my files and folders to an external drive and then remove it all and start from scratch to build the pool, that far is no big deal. But what about all the settings in qpkg add-ons and the settings in all them? Do I need to set all them up again or can I just copy the .qpkg folder and copy that back to restore the settings?

[andrejt]

I have HS 251+ (has two disk slots) with QTS 4.2.1. I have installed 1 x 6TB WRed disk (disk1) as Static Single volume.
Use case 1: I plan to use the disk1 together with external USB 3.0 6TB disk which will backup entire disk1
Use case 2: My idea is to add 2nd 6TB disk (disk2) when the price is lower and then use disk1 and disk2 as RAID 1.
Will it be possible to add the 2nd disk as RAID 1 together with the already installed 1st disk if the disk1 is now Static single volume? Or should I reconfigure it to Storage pool?
In case of two disks in RAID 1 I also plan to continue to use external USB disk to backup disk1 (since it is a mirror copy with disk2).

Can someone more experienced please answer my questions?

Thank you and kind regards!

[waninae39]

i replaced the older 3TB drives with 6TB drive in a Ts669 as i was at 84% usage. I had a raid 6 array and replaced one drive at a time
after two weeks, the 6TB drives have been rebuild ( with the existing data in place). it took betwen 30 -70 hours to rebuild each drive !

when i try to expand the volumes it says i can go to 21.46 TB in size
when i say go, it tells me that there is a 16TB limit, and does NOT proceed.

qnap2.PNG

I do not have a storage pool.

qnap 4.PNG

thus i am now stuck with drives with extra space that cant be used
any suggestions on how to proceed with a non-destructive method?

[P3R]

I do not have a storage pool.

So now you know the answer to the question in the topic of this thread.

any suggestions on how to proceed with a non-destructive method?

Backup all data, reinitialize the NAS (this time with storage pools if you want to avoid the same issue when expanding storage in the future) and then restore the data. That's the only way I know of.

[njf1525]

Forgive my ignorance but I am ignorant and confused. I will be getting my TS-853A next week and will make sure the firmware is up to date with 4.2.1. I will be installing 8x 4Tb drives. I want to set it up as RAID 6 so that the capacity is 24Tb. I have read conflicting information about whether storage pools are available on this model with the latest firmware. Are they? If not, does that mean I cannot have a single volume of more than 16Tb, and not the 24Tb I want and need? I do NOT want to be forced to have more than one volume which will either reduce the total capacity, if I stick to RAID 6, or mean I have to go with RAID 5 for each volume, which will reduce the resilience. Or have I misunderstood everything?

[P3R]

I have read conflicting information about whether storage pools are available on this model with the latest firmware. Are they?

On a TS-853A, absolutely yes!

[njf1525]

I have read conflicting information about whether storage pools are available on this model with the latest firmware. Are they?

On a TS-853A, absolutely yes!

Thanks for the reassurance. Does that mean I have to set up a storage pool in order to get the ability of having >16Tb? Or is there not in fact a 16Tb limit if I am setting up the NAS from scratch?

[P3R]

Does that mean I have to set up a storage pool in order to get the ability of having >16Tb? Or is there not in fact a 16Tb limit if I am setting up the NAS from scratch?

Why on earth would you even consider to not use storage pools when you have them?

You can have a larger volume than 16 TB on most models. The limitation was that you couldn't expand the volume past 16 TB. Setting it up from scratch haven't been an issue.

[njf1525]

Does that mean I have to set up a storage pool in order to get the ability of having >16Tb? Or is there not in fact a 16Tb limit if I am setting up the NAS from scratch?

Why on earth would you even consider to not use storage pools when you have them?

You can have a larger volume than 16 TB on most models. The limitation was that you couldn't expand the volume past 16 TB. Setting it up from scratch haven't been an issue.

Ok that's great. This will be my first versatile NAS and I am trying to understand it all in advance. The online manual isn't, in my opinion, very helpful for the inexperienced. By the way, it is the online 4.2.1 manual that doesn't include the TS-x53A in the list of devices that support storage pools. Not very helpful!

[P3R]

By the way, it is the online 4.2.1 manual that doesn't include the TS-x53A in the list of devices that support storage pools. Not very helpful!

I agree. The explanaition is that 4.2.1 is actually still in beta testing on most models (TS-853A is for specific reasons one of the very few models having 4.2.1 as the released firmware already) and the documentation therefore is also work in progress.

[grizzthewizz]

So much information! Let me pose this question, if you have 1282t and are running 2 M.2 500gb raid 1 (for cache), 2 SSDs 500gb volume 1 raid 1, and 8 3tb HDDs raid 6, would you use storage pools for all 3 raid's or just for HDDs?