TS-251 Raid setup

[TheGreatOrme]

Hi All,
I'm very new to the QNAP world, my first device comes Monday (very excited).
I have been watching tutorials online, and one talked about setting up a raid configuration and when he did it wiped all the drives.
I want to ultimately setup a raid 1 configuration, however due to financial limitations I have only been able to by one HDD. This will
change in the next few months when I can afford it.
So should I setup my 1 drive in raid 1 config but with no second drive in preparation of my future purchase? or will this not work?
And will I be screwed and have to start over when I get my second drive?
Cheers
Stuart

[Don]

You cannot set up raid 1 with one drive. You need two drives. You can start with one drive and add a second one later and migrate to raid 1. However, during the time you are running on a single drive you have no protection from a drive failure so you better make backups often if you cannot afford to lose your data.

[pwilson]

You cannot set up raid 1 with one drive. You need two drives. You can start with one drive and add a second one later and migrate to raid 1. However, during the time you are running on a single drive you have no protection from a drive failure so you better make backups often if you cannot afford to lose your data.

Forgive me Don, but I believe you are incorrect. The TS-251 uses SMB Firmware, and therefore does not support this.

[quote="Volumes for Standard section of the QNAP Turbo NAS User Manual "SMB" 4.1"]
Please note that RAID 0, RAID 1, Single and JBOD are not supported for volume expansion.
[/quote]

He will need to wipe/start from scratch to get to sensible RAID1. He should have started with 2 drives to avoid this issue, as clearly identified in the fine manual. This is the same reason why people with larger (4+ Bay) SMB Firmware models should start with a minimum of 3 drives, so that they can start with RAID5.

Non-RAID "solutions" are for masochists only. Too risky for my world.

[TheGreatOrme]

Hi thanks for the reply. This is for home use, and at present there are no backups of anything - hence the purchase of the nas. I have a single small
ext USB drive I use to copy photos to, and other files.
The NAs will become my store / backup of photos, laptops, tablets etc.
But what I want to try to avoid is copying files across to the single drive. Purchasing the 2nd drive in a few months, then finding that as I configure
for raid1 I have to wipe the original drive and effectively start again.
Do you know if this will be the case or is there a way around this?

[pwilson]

Hi thanks for the reply. This is for home use, and at present there are no backups of anything - hence the purchase of the nas. I have a single small
ext USB drive I use to copy photos to, and other files.
The NAs will become my store / backup of photos, laptops, tablets etc.
But what I want to try to avoid is copying files across to the single drive. Purchasing the 2nd drive in a few months, then finding that as I configure
for raid1 I have to wipe the original drive and effectively start again.
Do you know if this will be the case or is there a way around this?

Start with two drives. (I already explained this).

This is particularly important if you are going to be storing irreplaceable data such as photographs on it. Drives are cheap. Data isn't. Invest in a second drive immediately. Don't wait. I own a 4-Bay NAS, but I own 9 drives. 4 drives used internally in the NAS, and 5 drives for my Backups. HDDs fail. Nothing you can do changes this reality. Protect your data instead of your wallet.

Backup your PC's to your NAS. Backup your NAS to external drives or docks. I strongly recommend purchasing a eSATA/USB Drive Dock for this purpose. These devices are cheap (I paid <$50USD for mine). I favour Drive Docks, as a single Drive Dock can be used with multiple drives, which saves the expense of purchasing multiple drive enclosures. Make redundant backups. Store one Backup off-site.

In my case all my drives are WD Reds. When an internal drive fails in my NAS, I can simply re-task one of my "Backup" drives as an internal drive, (per QNAP Tutorial: Hot-swapping the hard drives when the RAID crashes; 2 minutes out of my life), to immediately restore RAID redundancy to my data. When WD replaces the failed drive, I can re-task it as a "Backup" drive again.

If you don't use RAID solutions, you will have to manually rebuild your NAS, and manually restore your data from your frequent Backups. Rebuilding/Restoring is a very time consuming exercise. With RAID solutions "Hot-swapping" the failed drive is usually all that is required, as the NAS will rebuild itself thanks to RAID. As I stated in my previous reply in this thread, Non-RAID "solutions" are for masochists only.

RAID is not a substitute for Backups. You need to do frequent Backups whether you are using RAID or not. If you don't develop a proper Backup strategy you will eventually lose data. It is better to have a Backup you didn't need, than to need a Backup you never had. You can schedule you Backups to occur in the middle of the night so that the mere act of doing those backups is (a) automatic, and (b) performed when no one is using the NAS, so sluggish performance caused by making those Backups doesn't affect users actively using the NAS. If you use NAS/RAID specific drives for all your HDDs, you can swap in a previously "Backup" drive, as an "internal" drive so you can repair your NAS immediately upon losing a drive.

Professional Data Recovery services are very expensive. It is far cheap to protect your data in the first place, so you don't have to enlist recovery services at all. You spent the money for a RAID device. Please take advantage of it's RAID capabilities. It is your job to protect your data.

It is a very unfortunate fact that many people seem to learn this lesson the hard way. I myself am not an exception. I lost 5.4TB of data due to HDD failure in a previous NAS (without RAID), including photos etc of my children and wedding. My now ex-wife has never forgiven me for the loss of those photos. Please learn from my mistake, instead of from your own.

[Don]

You cannot set up raid 1 with one drive. You need two drives. You can start with one drive and add a second one later and migrate to raid 1. However, during the time you are running on a single drive you have no protection from a drive failure so you better make backups often if you cannot afford to lose your data.

Forgive me Don, but I believe you are incorrect. The TS-251 uses SMB Firmware, and therefore does not support this.

[quote="Volumes for Standard section of the QNAP Turbo NAS User Manual "SMB" 4.1"]
Please note that RAID 0, RAID 1, Single and JBOD are not supported for volume expansion.

He will need to wipe/start from scratch to get to sensible RAID1. He should have started with 2 drives to avoid this issue, as clearly identified in the fine manual. This is the same reason why people with larger (4+ Bay) SMB Firmware models should start with a minimum of 3 drives, so that they can start with RAID5.

Non-RAID "solutions" are for masochists only. Too risky for my world.[/quote]
The TS-251 4.1 manual that I read online says you can do it.

[pwilson]

You cannot set up raid 1 with one drive. You need two drives. You can start with one drive and add a second one later and migrate to raid 1. However, during the time you are running on a single drive you have no protection from a drive failure so you better make backups often if you cannot afford to lose your data.

Forgive me Don, but I believe you are incorrect. The TS-251 uses SMB Firmware, and therefore does not support this.

[quote="Volumes for Standard section of the QNAP Turbo NAS User Manual "SMB" 4.1"]
Please note that RAID 0, RAID 1, Single and JBOD are not supported for volume expansion.

He will need to wipe/start from scratch to get to sensible RAID1. He should have started with 2 drives to avoid this issue, as clearly identified in the fine manual. This is the same reason why people with larger (4+ Bay) SMB Firmware models should start with a minimum of 3 drives, so that they can start with RAID5.

Non-RAID "solutions" are for masochists only. Too risky for my world.

The TS-251 4.1 manual that I read online says you can do it.[/quote]

I hope you are right, but what I quoted previously suggests otherwise.

[southpaw]

Good advice Patrick on the redundancy/backup approach.

I've got a related question here as I'm currently planning my own approach to data management with a soon to be purchased TS-251 to replace my Mac mini server setup as described below.

My current setup is straight forward - have two Mac minis used as clients and a third aging Mac mini used as a server with FW800 DASD storage (x2 drive enclosure, setup as single disk). Not requiring redundancy, I've been running a daily clone from drive 1 to drive 2 (using Chronosync) for backups. I also have a 3rd drive I store off-site and bring home monthly where I clone drive 1.

In moving to the TS-251 I had been planning to setup in the same manner - two independent drives with a daily clone job plus monthly off-site clone. To this point I've been ok with not having the immediate redundancy that RAID1 provides, and accepting the risk of losing data from the prior 24hr period (or 12hr pending frequency of the clone). Given the computers are not using during the day M-F, has been an acceptable trade-off.

With the TS-251 though, is this an ok approach or are there caveats I need to be aware of? How good is the internal software for replicating between internal drives? If drive 1 were to go down, would it be a simple case of moving drive 2 into the drive 1 slot or would there be additional configuration needed (I wouldn't think so if cloned properly)?

Thanks

[pwilson]

Good advice Patrick on the redundancy/backup approach.

I've got a related question here as I'm currently planning my own approach to data management with a soon to be purchased TS-251 to replace my Mac mini server setup as described below.

My current setup is straight forward - have two Mac minis used as clients and a third aging Mac mini used as a server with FW800 DASD storage (x2 drive enclosure, setup as single disk). Not requiring redundancy, I've been running a daily clone from drive 1 to drive 2 (using Chronosync) for backups. I also have a 3rd drive I store off-site and bring home monthly where I clone drive 1.

In moving to the TS-251 I had been planning to setup in the same manner - two independent drives with a daily clone job plus monthly off-site clone. To this point I've been ok with not having the immediate redundancy that RAID1 provides, and accepting the risk of losing data from the prior 24hr period (or 12hr pending frequency of the clone). Given the computers are not using during the day M-F, has been an acceptable trade-off.

With the TS-251 though, is this an ok approach or are there caveats I need to be aware of? How good is the internal software for replicating between internal drives? If drive 1 were to go down, would it be a simple case of moving drive 2 into the drive 1 slot or would there be additional configuration needed (I wouldn't think so if cloned properly)?

Thanks

If you are a Mac user wouldn't you simply use TimeMachine to the NAS?



Check out QNAP Tutorial: Time Machine Support



Once your OS X data is on the NAS, you can backup the NAS to an eSATA/USB Drive Dock with suitable (Ext4) drive inserted in it. Check out the External Backup section of the fine manual.

[southpaw]

Hi Patrick,

I didn't mention in the setup description but I do also backup minimal amounts of local data on the Mac clients to the Mac server as well (using a product called 'Chronosync' which has more capability than Time Machine). Nearly 100% of all data is on the Mac server.

What I'm doing is taking the Mac server out of the equation and replacing with a TS-251. I'm just looking into whether a reliable sync between drive 1 and 2 in the TS-251 on a set schedule is available/reliable as I don't need 'to the second' redundancy that RAID1 provides. If however there is a valid reason to setup RAID1, perhaps due to complexity in switching over drive 2 to drive 1 in case of failure, then I guess I'll have to get a 4th drive (2 internal + local backup + offsite backup) and go down the RAID1 path.

[pwilson]

Hi Patrick,

I didn't mention in the setup description but I do also backup minimal amounts of local data on the Mac clients to the Mac server as well (using a product called 'Chronosync' which has more capability than Time Machine). Nearly 100% of all data is on the Mac server.

What I'm doing is taking the Mac server out of the equation and replacing with a TS-251. I'm just looking into whether a reliable sync between drive 1 and 2 in the TS-251 on a set schedule is available/reliable as I don't need 'to the second' redundancy that RAID1 provides. If however there is a valid reason to setup RAID1, perhaps due to complexity in switching over drive 2 to drive 1 in case of failure, then I guess I'll have to get a 4th drive (2 internal + local backup + offsite backup) and go down the RAID1 path.

Yes, you can waste diskspace like this easily. Simply setup a Replication job on server: "localhost" from one share to another. Why aren't you planning to use External Backups using an eSATA/USB3.0 Drive Dock instead?



I paid <$50USD for mine. I store one Backup "off-site". What is the point of doing internal drive to internal drive Backups? How will you retrieve your Backup if the NAS goes "south"? You should be Backing Up to multiple external drives, and storing at least one Backup set off-site like I do.

[southpaw]

Hi Patrick,

I didn't mention in the setup description but I do also backup minimal amounts of local data on the Mac clients to the Mac server as well (using a product called 'Chronosync' which has more capability than Time Machine). Nearly 100% of all data is on the Mac server.

What I'm doing is taking the Mac server out of the equation and replacing with a TS-251. I'm just looking into whether a reliable sync between drive 1 and 2 in the TS-251 on a set schedule is available/reliable as I don't need 'to the second' redundancy that RAID1 provides. If however there is a valid reason to setup RAID1, perhaps due to complexity in switching over drive 2 to drive 1 in case of failure, then I guess I'll have to get a 4th drive (2 internal + local backup + offsite backup) and go down the RAID1 path.

Yes, you can waste diskspace like this easily. Simply setup a Replication job on server: "localhost" from one share to another. Why aren't you planning to use External Backups using an eSATA/USB3.0 Drive Dock instead?



I paid <$50USD for mine. I store one Backup "off-site". What is the point of doing internal drive to internal drive Backups? How will you retrieve your Backup if the NAS goes "south"? You should be Backing Up to multiple external drives, and storing at least one Backup set off-site like I do.

Great to hear that what I have been considering is supported via a replication job. I presumed so, but wanted to confirm as it wasn't obvious from skimming the documentation.

The whole point of going down the path of internal to internal drive backups is really just a means of re-purposing the 2nd drive as a backup drive if failover (aka RAID1) isn't needed. In this scenario, backups to an external drive would still be undertaken, but only for off-site storage where I'd be backing up monthly. I've been running this way with Macs for years now and have accepted the risks of minimal data loss due to primary drive failure in-between backups. As noted, these clients are only used in the evenings anyhow.

That said, I'm now realizing additional caveats with the NAS vs. Mac server setup that didn't come to mind initially - primarily around NAS/controller failure and the fact I couldn't just pop out one of those EXT4 formatted drives and plug-in to one of my Mac clients and continue on until the NAS is repaired/replaced. With my current setup, this is possible as every drive is formatted HFS+.

In the end, think I'll just fork out the few extra $ and go RAID1 plus external backup to an HFS+ unencrypted drive for on-site management plus external backup to an encrypted EXT4 formatted drive for offsite storage.

Cheers

[SecSysAdmin]

Hi All,
I'm very new to the QNAP world, my first device comes Monday (very excited).
I have been watching tutorials online, and one talked about setting up a raid configuration and when he did it wiped all the drives.
I want to ultimately setup a raid 1 configuration, however due to financial limitations I have only been able to by one HDD. This will
change in the next few months when I can afford it.
So should I setup my 1 drive in raid 1 config but with no second drive in preparation of my future purchase? or will this not work?
And will I be screwed and have to start over when I get my second drive?
Cheers
Stuart

Hi Everyone.

I just wanted to report back that I am in the same situation as "TheGreatOrme" where I had my QNAP TS-251 running version 4.1.4. For about 6 months, I was running with a single 3TB WD drive. I finally saved enough to buy a seagate 3TB drive and plug it in so I can get RAID 1 (Mirror). Did some research online on how this can be done and landed on this forum. After reading the comments where users said that it can/can not be done, I proceed to backup my data to an USB drive first and then proceed to investigate options to setup the RAID.

Steps I took.
I logged into my NAS via Web gui.
Goto Control Panel / Storage Manager
Click on Volume / Manage / Migrate
Select my newly installed 3TB on bay 2 and confirm.
The volume have switched to RAID 1 and it is currently rebuilding the 2nd drive.

To summarized, I started with 1 3tb Drive for 6 months.
I added a 2nd drive and I am able to config the NAS to RAID 1 (mirror) without starting from fresh.

[calbearz24]

Hi Everyone.

I just wanted to report back that I am in the same situation as "TheGreatOrme" where I had my QNAP TS-251 running version 4.1.4. For about 6 months, I was running with a single 3TB WD drive. I finally saved enough to buy a seagate 3TB drive and plug it in so I can get RAID 1 (Mirror). Did some research online on how this can be done and landed on this forum. After reading the comments where users said that it can/can not be done, I proceed to backup my data to an USB drive first and then proceed to investigate options to setup the RAID.

Steps I took.
I logged into my NAS via Web gui.
Goto Control Panel / Storage Manager
Click on Volume / Manage / Migrate
Select my newly installed 3TB on bay 2 and confirm.
The volume have switched to RAID 1 and it is currently rebuilding the 2nd drive.

To summarized, I started with 1 3tb Drive for 6 months.
I added a 2nd drive and I am able to config the NAS to RAID 1 (mirror) without starting from fresh.

Thank you very much for posting this! My RAID group 1 is rebuilding the second drive right now.

[Becketts]

Calbearz24 you rock! My RAID is rebuilding right now too, thanks to your instructions!

I have read the manual and to be honest I have a lot more interest in being a good dad and husband and enjoying life than trying to be an enterprise sysadmin right now. I know some here will think less of me for that. I have redundant back ups but I am upgrading from a lousy Seagate NAS to what, so far, seems a great QNAP that will hopefully become the center of my cord-cutting home media server. Anyways...you saved me from buying a hard drive that I didn't need in order to be sure I had redundancy while wiping two drives from the previous NAS to get me to the QNAP. I was able to degrade my previous RAID 1 and do it 1 drive at a time (with one full backup on the shelf at all times). I never wanted to have less than 2 copies of all my music, kids pictures and videos.

I think we all have a lot to offer here and to be honest I have read a lot of holier-than-thou snark from some because all of us haven't devoted our lives to IT. Let's lighten up and help the kids out when we can without making them feel bad about asking questions.

Thanks again Calbearz24 for a clear and helpful answer.