Uncrippled APCUPSd, please

[doktornotor]

Why do I have to install a full apcupsd/apcupsd-cgi versions via ipkg to get an APC UPS connected via USB to another box working over network goes beyond me. The story with pretty much all the NAS vendors (QNAP, Synology, others) seems to be that they make the package basically unusable for anything but locally connected UPS. You know, guys, even the smallest APC models have enough muscles to easily power multiple of these low-power consumption NAS boxes, no point in wasting space and money.

[schumaku]

The QNAP UPS configuration allows:

- Using a locally connected UPS
- Serving as a Network Master for other daemons on the network fo the locally connected UPS
- Serving as a Network Slave communiating with a master daemon
- Set-up an SNMP trap receiver to get notified from an UPS or an SNMP trap repeater

What for do you need to use another daemon now?

[doktornotor]

The QNAP UPS configuration allows:

- Serving as a Network Master for other daemons on the network fo the locally connected UPS
- Serving as a Network Slave communiating with a master daemon
What for do you need to use another daemon now?

I beg to differ. This does not work at all for networked UPS boxes. There is no apcupsd running and the net driver is not even compiled in! Which you would quickly see if you try to use the bundled apcupsd package by editing the configuration files manually and launching it. Like this:

Code: Select all

UPSCABLE ether
UPSTYPE net
DEVICE anotherbox.example.com:3551

The same configuration works perfectly fine with apcupsd installed from Optware. So, let me say it again - the package is seriously crippled. (Using latest stable FW.)

P.S. I already described what I need it for, use an UPS attached via USB to another box and listening on NIS via network.

[schumaku]

This does not work at all for networked UPS boxes.

What is a networked UPS box now please?

We are talking of a product - which is configured and managed in the first priority from the NAS Web UI. Everything I stated is related to the standard product functionality, the apcupsd is not used:

- For a network-enabled APC UPS, the NAS does support SNMP. The NAS is able to listen to power event traps sent from the UPS, and able to fetch operaitonal data by SNMP (Protocol APC UPS with SNMP Management).
- To talk to another computer with a UPS daemon (ie. also a stock apcupsd), you can configure Protocol: Network UPS Slave and enter the IP address of the other device.

All that is documented in QNAP Turbo NAS User Manual - External Devices - UPS Settings - and thats what I'm talking of here. This is what QNAP does support.

Nobody ever stated there is a plain standard, complete and fully manaually configureable apcupsd on board, even if some fragments are around on the system. Nothing, absolutely nothing form what you can configure from the NAS Web UI does make use of the stock apcupsd. That's why you dont see the network support in the existing apcupsd, pitty - but that's the way the NAS is implemented as a product. If you want to reinvent the wheel - feel free.

[doktornotor]

What is a networked UPS box now please?

Sigh, I already explained twice. You connect an UPS to some box via USB cable. On that box, you install apcupsd and let it listen on a NIS port. On another box, you install another apcupsd and let it talk with the other box via net.

We are talking of a product - which is configured and managed in the first priority from the NAS Web UI. Everything I stated is related to the standard product functionality, the apcupsd is not used:

- For a network-enabled APC UPS, the NAS does support SNMP. The NAS is able to listen to power event traps sent from the UPS, and able to fetch operaitonal data by SNMP (Protocol APC UPS with SNMP Management).
- To talk to another computer with a UPS daemon (ie. also a stock apcupsd), you can configure Protocol: Network UPS Slave and enter the IP address of the other device.

Yes. Sadly, the GUI is useless for the above use case. Let me say it again: the driver is not even compiled in -> it can never work. (And no, I am not talking about SNMP, these are cheapo SOHO APC UPS units. Why are about half of the drivers provided by stock apcupsd missing goes beyond me. Must be some mania among NAS vendors to cripple the package's functionality as much as possible. Then again, why is some whacky SNMP stuff (allegedly - cannot test, no HW to do so) supported and simple functionality that could be used by all those SOHO NAS users is not?

Nobody ever stated there is a plain standard, complete and fully manaually configureable apcupsd on board, even if some fragments are around on the system. Nothing, absolutely nothing form what you can configure from the NAS Web UI does make use of the stock apcupsd. That's why you dont see the network support in the existing apcupsd, pitty - but that's the way the NAS is implemented as a product. If you want to reinvent the wheel - feel free.

Let me ask this obvious question again - why is QNAP crippling the package? It could work perfectly fine when left vanilla. For everything that is supported currently, for my use case and for bunch of others. Configuring it via GUI is a snap in either case, simple bunch of lines. Reinventing a wheel? Yeah, QNAP is, apparently, reinventing a square wheel here. Sigh.

[schumaku]

Sigh, I already explained twice. You connect an UPS to some box via USB cable. On that box, you install apcupsd and let it listen on a NIS port. On another box, you install another apcupsd and let it talk with the other box via net.

Exactly that is supposed to be possible configuring the Network UPS Slave. The NAS can also serve in that way - this is the Network UPS Master becoming available if a UPS is connected to the USB.

Yes. Sadly, the GUI is useless for the above use case.

Why? You _can_ configure the Network UPS Sslave and the IP address of this device ... sufficient to substitute the three lines from your config example. Just the port defaults to the standard one - what should be sufficient for a normal environment.

Let me say it again: the driver is not even compiled in -> it can never work. (

Sorry, please try to undertand: This is not applicable to the QNAP implementation - QNAP does NOT use the standard apcupsd as part of thier product - so this is _not_ a limiting factor here.

I don't understand too, why they are still providing an outdated and incomplete apcupsd. In fact, it can be removed - as it's not required as a part of the product.

[doktornotor]

Sigh, I already explained twice. You connect an UPS to some box via USB cable. On that box, you install apcupsd and let it listen on a NIS port. On another box, you install another apcupsd and let it talk with the other box via net.

Exactly that is supposed to be possible configuring the Network UPS Slave. The NAS can also serve in that way - this is the Network UPS Master becoming available if a UPS is connected to the USB.

Well, let me say again that it does NOT work at all. And I have already explained multiple times why it does not work.

Why? You _can_ configure the Network UPS Sslave and the IP address of this device ... sufficient to substitute the three lines from your config example. Just the port defaults to the standard one - what should be sufficient for a normal environment.

Well, it will not work without apcupsd running, really. Since no apcupsd is running after following the steps you have suggested, we are back to square one. What is so hard to understand here? (And yeah, 3551 is the standard port.) The thing tries to use SNMP - which, let me restate it - is NOT available. It puts Snmp UPS = TRUE into /etc/config/uLinux.conf when you choose Network UPS slave. Obviously, no UPS state is shown then in the GUI. And let me say again that the implementation in QNAP only supports USB and SNMP.

Sorry, please try to undertand: This is not applicable to the QNAP implementation - QNAP does NOT use the standard apcupsd as part of thier product - so this is _not_ a limiting factor here.

I don't understand too, why they are still providing an outdated and incomplete apcupsd. In fact, it can be removed - as it's not required as a part of the product.

I frankly have no idea which reinvented wheel has QNAP switched to (some proprietary code or whatever), the two standard Linux things are NUT and APCUPSd. Whatever are they using however - is plain incompatible with non-local non-SNMP-enabled UPSes. End of story. **.

[schumaku]

Well, let me say again that it does NOT work at all.

Traced any proof? Might be broken - we never know. Is your statement the NAS does not connect to your apcupsd implementation? That was the compatibility I have challanged QNAP to implement...

And I have already explained multiple times why it does not work.

No - your explanation is false - because of the apcupsd does is outdated and does not contain network support. However: That's not applicable - it definitively not the binary named apcupsd or similar listenting to other UPS daemons resps. connecting to others on the NAS.

Why has QNAP diverted from the standard binary? I have no clue.

Does it always have to be the same well-kown binary names and code? Well, Apple decided to leave SAMBA for example and implement thier own Microsift File Sharing client for example.

No need ot fight with me - I'm not QNAP, just try to help and bring in some ideas.

[doktornotor]

Traced any proof? Might be broken - we never know. Is your statement the NAS does not connect to your apcupsd implementation? That was the compatibility I have challanged QNAP to implement...

Yeah, it plain does not work. The only ups thing running when Network UPS Slave is selected is some /usr/sbin/upsutil which does not do anything useful and does not listen anywhere. When I select APC UPS with SNMP management, I get this:

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# netstat -le | grep snmp
udp        0      0 *:snmp-trap             *:*

# ps ax | grep ups | grep snmp
 3620 admin       184 S   /sbin/min_snmptrapd /etc/config/ups_snmptrapd.conf 10.0.0.254


Of course, that does not work for me either.

However: That's not applicable - it definitively not the binary named apcupsd or similar listenting to other UPS daemons resps. connecting to others on the NAS.

Why has QNAP diverted from the standard binary? I have no clue.

Does it always have to be the same well-kown binary names and code? Well, Apple decided to leave SAMBA for example and implement thier own Microsift File Sharing client for example.

Yeah, it is not, while it should be. Whatever the undocumented nonsense is, it does not work. And without any documentation whatsoever, no idea where to start even. Definitely not eager to dig into the source code (who knows whether the thing is even included in there).

[fantomas]

pardon me guys, but it seems to me that QNAP runs NUT instead of apcupsd, can't that be the problem?
it seems to have the support for network ups slave.
(well, this may be because UPS support has changed since you were talking about that but you can check)