Powered by a MSW inverter?

Interested in our products? Post your questions here. Let us answer before you buy.

Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby nreiter » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:16 pm

I would like to install a TS-219P II in our motorhome and power it from our modified sine wave inverter. Will the power supply work correctly on the MSW power? If not, can I power it directly from our 12VDC house batteries?
-- Ned --
nreiter
New here
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm
NAS Model: SS-439 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby schumaku » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:28 pm

No long-term experience - operating a TS-109 on a small 12 V DC solar power system, sunlight permitting, up in the mountains. When you have a reliable 12 V DC supply ... that's the way to go in my opinion. Inverters are just a waste of valueable energy. Be careful with volate peaks from generators, or engine drive alternators, or while starting the engine - the protection disodes on the starter relays can fail.
User avatar
schumaku
Guru
 
Posts: 30644
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
NAS Model: TS-x79 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby nreiter » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:03 am

I'm leaning toward using the 12VDC source, but using an existing outlet from our 2000W inverter would be easier and would only be until I can do the 12VDC wiring. That's why I'm looking for any experience with running the power supply from a MSW inverter. Most switching supplies work fine on MSW but not all, and I don't want to chance it if no one has done it before.
-- Ned --
nreiter
New here
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm
NAS Model: SS-439 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby pwilson » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:49 am

nreiter wrote:I'm leaning toward using the 12VDC source, but using an existing outlet from our 2000W inverter would be easier and would only be until I can do the 12VDC wiring. That's why I'm looking for any experience with running the power supply from a MSW inverter. Most switching supplies work fine on MSW but not all, and I don't want to chance it if no one has done it before.


Most inverters provide "dirty" power, which could lead to "unscheduled reboots" etc. Internally, your system runs on DC anyway, so much of the "dirtiness" will be eliminated by the "bridge rectifiers" in your powersupply on your QNAP, but it will not address the issue of "spikes" etc, that are typically created any all but the most expensive inverters.

If you want to attempt a 12V solution you might want to look at the offerings of Mini-Box.com, they offer a whole series of so-called "pico-PSU's" which are basically DC-DC powersupplies that can be used in PC's etc. They require a "clean" 12VDC input source, if wired in-line with a dedicated 12V battery, this would help keep the 12V stable, and allow the battery rather than the equipment to absorb any possible spikes from the power source.

I would however strongly recommend that you discuss any such plans with QNAP prior to attempting this, as swapping out the QNAP power supply could potentially invalidate your product warranty with QNAP. As much as I don't think an "inverter" is the correct solution, it might be more warranty-compatible, as you would still be using the "standard" QNAP PSU with your NAS.

Regardless of what solution you come up with, you probably will NOT want to operate your sensitive equipment, while your vehicle is charging off the alternator, as this typically will increase the voltage from 12V to 13.8V while charging, which could cause issues with your 12V equipment, that was never designed for this application.

Once you address the potential warranty issues, you might find that you want to keep your NAS as a 120V device, and only use it as such. You could use the USB ports to copy media to a external drive while connected to 120VAC, and use only the external drive with your Laptop or other devices while on 12VDC power. This would be likely to protect your warranty, and equipment, and yet still take advantage of allowing you to take your QNAP "on the road" when you travel.

It sounds like a fascinating project. Good luck....

Patrick.
Last edited by pwilson on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.1.1 Build 20140927 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit) User.
Forums: View My Profile - Search My Posts - View My Photo - Top Community Forum Posters
QNAP: Turbo NAS User Manual - QNAP Wiki - QNAP Tutorials - QNAP FAQs - HowTos - QNAP Video Library
Please review: When you're asking a question, please include the following.
User avatar
pwilson
Moderator
 
Posts: 12172
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
NAS Model: TS-x70 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby nreiter » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:18 am

Patrick, thank you for the comprehensive reply. Let me give some more detail on my situation. We live in our motorhome and it has a Heart 20D 2000W modified sine wave inverter that has powered numerous computers and other electronic devices for the past 15 years. Only a very few devices had a problem with the inverter output, and those were not powered by switching power supplies. For example, electronic control toasters don't work, but all of our coffee makers have been fine (other than the clocks running fast). Our house battery bank is 4x6V AGM deep cycle batteries with 440AH capacity and even when traveling, the voltage never gets above about 13.6V due to the charge controller that is involved. That's about the same voltage that the built in charger puts out for a float voltage but it can go as high as 14.4V in bulk charge mode. I have another electronic device powered off of the batteries and it has suffered no ill effects from it. I have no doubt that the QNAP would work fine on the battery power, but, as you say, that may invalidate the warranty. That's why I am looking for any real world experience with running the power supply on a MSW inverter.

Hopefully, someone from QNAP will see this and give me some definitive answers regarding allowable DC voltage, inverter operation, and warranty information.

Thanks again,
-- Ned --
nreiter
New here
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm
NAS Model: SS-439 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby pwilson » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:16 am

nreiter wrote:Hopefully, someone from QNAP will see this and give me some definitive answers regarding allowable DC voltage, inverter operation, and warranty information.


While QNAP does monitor this forum, this is not QNAP Support.

To get answers to your questions, you might want to contact QNAP Customer Service or simply submit your inquiry via their Online Support Form.

Patrick.

Patrick M. Wilson
Victoria, BC Canada
QNAP TS-470 Pro w/ 4 * Western Digital WD30EFRX WD Reds (RAID5) - - Single 8.1TB Storage Pool FW: QTS 4.1.1 Build 20140927 - Kali Linux v1.06 (64bit) User.
Forums: View My Profile - Search My Posts - View My Photo - Top Community Forum Posters
QNAP: Turbo NAS User Manual - QNAP Wiki - QNAP Tutorials - QNAP FAQs - HowTos - QNAP Video Library
Please review: When you're asking a question, please include the following.
User avatar
pwilson
Moderator
 
Posts: 12172
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
NAS Model: TS-x70 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby schumaku » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:15 pm

Doubt they can answer that...

Common consumer power supply equipment DC output is not fully flat regulated DC - thuis the =-=-=-= logo (so there are intrnal circuits again to regulate to the clean the DC supplies required), the voltage is typically spec'ed to +/-5%. This is much less than what standard automotive equipment (radio, DVD, navigation, ...) can take - think about the ~13.6V charging - this is why I mentioned that before.

Here some information from a typical DC power supply datasheet:

+ 12.0 V 0A 3.5 A 42 W +/- 5 % +/- 2 % At nominal input voltage and full load 120 mVp-p maximum At 20 MHz, and output parallel with 0.1uF & 47uF capacitors to ground Temperature at 25 ` and 115V/230V AC C, input voltage 80% minimum At nominal input voltage and full load

With half cycle input voltage drop-out, the unit shall operate within the prescribed voltages with a drop-out pulse repetition rate of 500mS. Conditions: Full load and nominal input AC voltage Limits
User avatar
schumaku
Guru
 
Posts: 30644
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
NAS Model: TS-x79 Pro

Re: Powered by a MSW inverter?

Postby nreiter » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:12 pm

I will try contacting QNAP support directly. It seems this is not an easy question to answer. Thanks for the help.
-- Ned --
nreiter
New here
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm
NAS Model: SS-439 Pro


Return to Presales

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests