new QNAP owner .... questions

Discussion on setting up QNAP NAS products.
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cs7404
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new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

sorry in advance for the loaded OP .... i'm doing a combination of reading the QTS user guide and research to find out more about my questions.

i decided to buy my first QNAP NAS a TS-453D model, migrating over from a WD EX2 NAS in order to get additional functionality. before i receive it and begin setup, have some remarks and questions about it.

UPS:
concerning QNAP NAS's in general, would most model UPS's work when connected to the NAS (USB) ? I have a Cyberpower CP600LCD that is supposed to be a smart UPS but it isn't listed in the compatibility section on the QNAP site for this particular NAS.
i want to setup the NAS so that it will do a controlled shutdown (unmount the volumes/disks and power down) a certain number of minutes after the UPS indicates to the NAS that it is running on battery. i think with QTS 5 there are 2 options: Power down the NAS or go into auto-protect mode.

anyone here tested these features ? auto-protect is attractive because the NAS will resume when utility power comes back. but I would want to be sure that it safely unmounts the file systems and the physical HDDs move the flying heads into park.

RAID:
coming from a WD 2-bay NAS, I will be using 4 disks in the TS-453D and setting up RAID5. according to what i see in the QNAP raid calculator - with 2x 8TB + 2x 6TB drives, the NAS will setup 3 of them in stripe and use one for parity. my limiting size is 6TB so I will lose 4TB total when setting up a raid5, which doesn't bother me much at the moment. but i don't understand whether the NAS is distributing parity across all drives, or using a dedicated drive for all parity data ? is that how raid 5 is supposed to work ?

for instance, if i lose the parity drive, i will still have my data intact ? if i lose one of the 3 data drives (the parity drive is intact), do i still have my data intact ?
another thing that i'm curious about is that if QNAP NAS devices can allow swapping some (not all) the disks in a RAID array:

from: 6TB, 6TB, 8TB, 8TB (RAID 5)
to: 4x 8TB (RAID 5)

QTS 5 user guide mentions how to add capacity by replacing all disks one by one. but does it allow replacement of just 1, 2 or 3 disks in a 4 disk array ? the guide assumes you want to upgrade all the disks to larger capacities like this scenario:

from: 6TB, 6TB, 8TB, 8TB (RAID 5)
to: 4x 10TB (RAID 5)

just wondering, before i decide to build a RAID 5 using 2x 6TB + 2x 8TB as my starter setup and expanding later on.

VM:
it would be nice if i can run my windows and ubuntu vm's right from the NAS. i currently use them with VMWare Fusion for mac and keep them local on the mac. if wanting to run these vm's from the NAS, does the compatible VMWare app for QTS cost $ ? VMWare Fusion license for my use on the mac was free as I am a home user (not a business).

would i be able to load the VMWare app onto the NAS, and then move/import the VM's themselves onto the NAS ? assuming it's going to allocate some block of space from the storage pool/volume I create when I add the drives. planning to just create one large storage pool to keep things simple backup-wise.

BACKUPS:
i plan to plug in an OWC enclosure, and setup backup jobs to backup everything on the NAS (all content), which QNAP app should I look into for doing that ? i currently have this enclosure filled with all my content from my WD NAS, after setting up the QNAP, I was planning to plug the OWC into the NAS and just copy back all my files/content into the appropriate shares I create. Any special concerns for permissions of the files I copy back ? Is it possible to do the copy operation from within QTS ? looking to avoid connecting the new NAS and the OWC directly to my computer in order to transfer files. planning to connect the NAS to the network and the OWC backup enclosure to the NAS via USB.

thanks in advance
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OneCD
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by OneCD »

Hi and welcome to the forum. :)
cs7404 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:24 am i decided to buy my first QNAP NAS a TS-453D model, migrating over from a WD EX2 NAS in order to get additional functionality. before i receive it and begin setup, have some remarks and questions about it.
Great!

Please be aware: you won't be able to move the drives over from your WD NAS and read your data in the QNAP. QTS (the QNAP OS) insists on formatting any drives inserted into the drive bays before they can be used. Which means all data will be lost. If you're prepared for that and have backups of your data, fine.
cs7404 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:24 am RAID:
coming from a WD 2-bay NAS, I will be using 4 disks in the TS-453D and setting up RAID5. according to what i see in the QNAP raid calculator - with 2x 8TB + 2x 6TB drives, the NAS will setup 3 of them in stripe and use one for parity. my limiting size is 6TB so I will lose 4TB total when setting up a raid5, which doesn't bother me much at the moment. but i don't understand whether the NAS is distributing parity across all drives, or using a dedicated drive for all parity data ? is that how raid 5 is supposed to work ?
RAID5 uses a distributed parity system. This means no single drive contains parity data for the array. Instead, parity data is spread evenly over all array member drives.

RAID5 allows for the removal (or loss) of a single drive only. If you have 2 or more drives removed from the array, the entire array will be broken and all data lost.
cs7404 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:24 am another thing that i'm curious about is that if QNAP NAS devices can allow swapping some (not all) the disks in a RAID array:

from: 6TB, 6TB, 8TB, 8TB (RAID 5)
to: 4x 8TB (RAID 5)
Yes, you can increase the size of your drives (and storage capacity) at a later date. There's a process for this in the user manual.

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dolbyman
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by dolbyman »

UPS:..gotta try. easy if you have it already

RAID: ..it's distributed parity..not dedicated in RAID5 and you need to swap all drives for larger ones (or the smalles ine in a mix ..just read how raid5 works

VM:VMStarion is free..but set your expectations for a low end celeron here

Backups:HBS3 thats the default and defacto only backup app..as long as the device is a compatible block storage device,it should work
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

RAID:
coming from a WD 2-bay NAS, I will be using 4 disks in the TS-453D and setting up RAID5. according to what i see in the QNAP raid calculator - with 2x 8TB + 2x 6TB drives, the NAS will setup 3 of them in stripe and use one for parity. my limiting size is 6TB so I will lose 4TB total when setting up a raid5, which doesn't bother me much at the moment. but i don't understand whether the NAS is distributing parity across all drives, or using a dedicated drive for all parity data ? is that how raid 5 is supposed to work ?
i've experienced where 1 hdd out of 4 dropped out on it's own, or i manually removed it. reinsert a new hdd and it rebuilds and everything was intact (this is not a 100% guarantee all the time, as raid rebuilds has a probability of failing). After the raid rebuild the data was intact and it would seemingly be like no problem ever occured. that said, raid is not a substitute for a backup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... _a_backup/


been using raid5 with 4x 4tb hdds for many many years, no issues, that said i always still had a backup regardless.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
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cs7404
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

thanks everyone for chiming in. it’s nice to be in a forum where bad attitude is not the first reply that hits your thread (like some less memorable forums i’ve participated in).

for some additional clarity here …

@OneCD,
i’m prepared to reformat my disks. the external backup enclosure contains a simple folder and file hierarchal backup of my shares, and it is a raid1, so i have 2 copies of everything i am putting back into the new nas.

i did some reading about raid 5,6,10,50 and 60 and did some dice rolling in the calculators to see what suits me best with a 4 bay for now, but adding an expansion later on to make a 50 or 60 is not out of the question. for now i think choosing raid 5 and keeping the external enclosure with raid 1 areangement gives me some more reassurance to what i currently have. theres just that narrow pass where i have to take a leap of faith and wipe out my raid 1 enclosure in order to make room for the first full qnap backup job - my only copy of my stuff would be on the qnap during that process.

@dolbyman,
i guess i’ll find out how slow it will be. i keep my vm’s around for apps that aren’t too demanding.

is HBS3 a QNAP app or 3rd party ? proven reliable for verbatim file and folder duplication ?

@Moogle,
i dont want to bite my toung, being a home user with no more than 5 warm bodies hitting up the NAS at a time, and loaded with N300 Toshibas, likely wont have to deal with a dropout of a disk. i have on the other hand had bad experiences with crappy WD SMR drives and I will never touch an SMR drive again. having raid 5 with N300 platters + raid 1 Toshiba MG08’s in the backup enclosure i feel unusually safe.
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cs7404
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

does QTS allow me to check filesystem health (ext4) of the array as well as monitor individual SMART data for each physical disk in any raid arrangement ?
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by dolbyman »

yes .. you can check the disks (SMART short/long) disk surface and filesystem
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

cs7404 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:52 am
@Moogle,
i dont want to bite my toung, being a home user with no more than 5 warm bodies hitting up the NAS at a time, and loaded with N300 Toshibas, likely wont have to deal with a dropout of a disk. i have on the other hand had bad experiences with crappy WD SMR drives and I will never touch an SMR drive again. having raid 5 with N300 platters + raid 1 Toshiba MG08’s in the backup enclosure i feel unusually safe.
i've used samsung f3 spinpoint in raid5 (these were not certified for raid, but they were certified for 24/7 operation and they rebuilded fine no issue), hgst deskstar nas, wd reds (not the smr **** ) and seagate ironwolves.

I've tested rebuilding using the same brand, and also a mix of hgst, wd red and seagate ironwolves, they rebuilded fine.

Stay away from SMRs. WD reds some of them where cheekily by wd actually smrs but they never told consumers. Now they sell wd red PLUS to guarantee they aren't smrs... but the damage their brand was already done. I just put my money where my mouth is, and since that fiasco i have been buying seagate ironwolves instead.

Sadly there is a lack of choice for hdds used in nas for lowest cost. It's either WD, Seagate, or Toshiba :S ..... out of these i only buy seagate ironwolves non pro for now. Hgst which was my previous favourite got bought up by wd if i recall correctly.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
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cs7404
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

@Moogle,

i agree, and prior to some failures i've had in the not too distant past i was oblivious to the recording technology used on the disks in my outgoing NAS and outgoing desktop backup disk -- which were both coincidentally WD products.
pieces of the puzzle started coming together for me when i compared prices for bare drives, enclosures and nas's with WD's product lines. you get what you pay for. so i bit the bullet and decided to invest in some reputable hardware in order to have a higher confidence level in using them for years, since i'm not a 27/7 server, i think i'll get some years of trouble free use -- by incorporating raid 5 right now, i am gaining added safety i didn't have before with my current 2-bay raid0 arrangement.
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cs7404
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

i want to do some upgrades to the TS-453D before i put it in service, and want to start with RAM .... planning to go with 2x 8GB SODIMM DDR4 2666 ram, can anyone post some recommendation for RAM that works for this NAS ?

i could also sacrifice my 4 HDD setup --> instead I can deploy 3 HDD's and use the free bay for an SSD. what is gained by adding an SSD to the NAS ? for example, can I improve VM performance ?
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by dolbyman »

never use a single SSD for anything important (write cache, live data,etc) always make sure it's raid1+
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

i was thinking the SSD would be just for that purpose, caching data. not sure if it would be possible to deploy an SSD that can be partitioned on the NAS - serving as both a cache as well as a separate storage pool for things like my VM's ? sorry, i don't know how QTS handles things like that.
assuming the installed SSD would be unmounted when the unit is shutting down or entering auto-protection mode

in general, do all installed apps use storage pool space ?
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by dolbyman »

no..any disk can only serve a single main purpose...data,cache or tier

no combo
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

i’ll look into how caching works for an installed ssd and choose the ssd size that way.
thanks for the answers, all very useful info
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Re: new QNAP owner .... questions

Post by cs7404 »

if i choose to add a single sdd, 512gb, and am running virtual machines hosted on the NAS, does the NAS utilize the ssd for read-write caching related to vm usage ? for example- i install an ssd, setup some vm’s on the raid 5 volume (the HDD’s), start using the vm’s … would the ssd cache improve overall performance of the vm ?

thinking that using a 512gb ssd in combination with 8 or 16gb of installed ram can improve the performance of running vm’s as well as background ops like plex and reading/writing files from the clients
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QTS 5.1.1.2491
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