500 GB m2.SSD not seen on TVS-473

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:39 pm

I installed a single Samsung SSD 960 EVO 500GB(MZ-V6E500BW) m2.SSD into my TVS-473 per the hardware instructuctions and was very careful to follow the directions to the letter, right down to the anti-shock pad and wrist-strap that I don't think has seen action since 1996 per the specific guidelines for the TVS-473: https://www.qnap.com/en-us/support/con_ ... ne&cid=105 and I have tried to install the 2280 m2. SSD in either of the slots and neither is recognizing the module. Note that this module is straight off if the compatibility list: https://www.qnap.com/en-us/compatibilit ... ategory=23 but whether it is in slot 1 or 2 Storage Manager shows it as empty. (It's a white empty box in either case. The instructions say nothing else is necessary to get the TVS-473 to recognize the m2.SSD module and that it should just appear as active, but I wanted to confirm that is actually indeed the case.

Also, I was told that in order to safely use QTier in this way I need to have 2 of the same exact modules in each slot so that they can be mirrored or I can experience data loss if I lose and SSD, but this is not a requirement, right? I should just see the m2.SSD in the appropriate slot in Storage Manager right after I boot, yes? Is there something else that might prevent this, or am I most likely dealing with a defective m2.SSD?

Toxic17 · Post by **Toxic17** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:24 pm

Yes you should see the m2 card listed in storage manager.

ssh to your NAS and type the following:

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[~] # qcli_storage -p

you should see something like this...

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Enclosure Port Sys_Name      Size      Type   RAID        RAID_Type    Pool TMeta  VolType      VolName
NAS_HOST  1    /dev/sda      2.73 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  2    /dev/sdb      2.73 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  3    /dev/sdc      2.73 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  4    /dev/sdd      2.73 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  P1-1/dev/nvme0n1  232.89 GB cache  /dev/md2    RAID 1       256  --     flexible     Cache Volume
NAS_HOST  P1-2/dev/nvme1n1  232.89 GB cache  /dev/md2    RAID 1       256  --     flexible     Cache Volume
REXP#1    1    /dev/nvme0n1  232.89 GB cache  /dev/md2    RAID 1       256  --     flexible     Cache Volume
REXP#1    2    /dev/nvme1n1  232.89 GB cache  /dev/md2    RAID 1       256  --     flexible     Cache Volume

or:

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[~] # qcli_storage -d
Enclosure  Port  Sys_Name     Type      Size      Alias          Signature   Partitions  Model
NAS_HOST   1     /dev/sda     HDD:data  2.73 TB   --             QNAP FLEX   5           WDC WD30EFRX-68EUZN0
NAS_HOST   2     /dev/sdb     HDD:data  2.73 TB   --             QNAP FLEX   5           WDC WD30EFRX-68EUZN0
NAS_HOST   3     /dev/sdc     HDD:data  2.73 TB   --             QNAP FLEX   5           WDC WD30EFRX-68EUZN0
NAS_HOST   4     /dev/sdd     HDD:data  2.73 TB   --             QNAP FLEX   5           WDC WD30EFRX-68EUZN0
NAS_HOST   P1-  1/dev/nvme0n1 SSD:cache 232.89 GB PCIe 1 M.2 SSD 1QNAP FLEX   5           Samsung SSD 960
NAS_HOST   P1-  2/dev/nvme1n1 SSD:cache 232.89 GB PCIe 1 M.2 SSD 2QNAP FLEX   5           Samsung SSD 960
REXP#1     1     /dev/nvme0n1 SSD:cache 232.89 GB PCIe 1 M.2 SSD 1QNAP FLEX   5           Samsung SSD 960
REXP#1     2     /dev/nvme1n1 SSD:cache 232.89 GB PCIe 1 M.2 SSD 2QNAP FLEX   5           Samsung SSD 960

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:16 pm

Alas, the CLI concurs with what Storage Maanger says:

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[~] # qcli_storage -p
Enclosure Port Sys_Name      Size      Type   RAID        RAID_Type    Pool TMeta  VolType      VolName
NAS_HOST  3    /dev/sdc      5.46 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  4    /dev/sdd      5.46 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  5    /dev/sda      5.46 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
NAS_HOST  6    /dev/sdb      5.46 TB   data   /dev/md1    RAID 5,512   1    64 GB  flexible     DataVol1
[~] #

Why do you suppose it's not being seen? I can't say that I have ever seen a DIIM or SSD module that gave absolutely no indication that it was even present. Even if the SSD was defective I would think there would be something reported. Do these things have a BIOS of any kind that you can escape out of at boot? Perhaps the hardware can see something before booting.

P3R · Post by **P3R** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:41 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I have no experience with these products but as far as I can tell the MZ-V6E500BW is a NVMe M.2 SSD while the specifications for your TVS-473 specifically says that 2 x 2280/2260 SATA 6Gb/s are supported.

Also the compatibility list states PCIE as the interface for your module, which I assume mean that you need to have either the QM2-2P or the QM2-2P10G1T add-on card to use it.

The other approach would be to select an M.2 module that is listed as SATA 6Gb/s in the compatibility list I think.

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:34 pm

P3R wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong as I have no experience with these products but as far as I can tell the MZ-V6E500BW is a NVMe M.2 SSD while the specifications for your TVS-473 specifically says that 2 x 2280/2260 SATA 6Gb/s are supported.

I guess that is up to interpretation as I took that to mean that you could install up to two 2280 or 2260 SATA SSDs as long as they could deliver 6GB/s. I suppose it could very well mean that it only will work with 2 of those m2.ssd in place. I have a second one on order and it gets here Monday and I can confirm. However looking at the compatibility matrix for the model that I have it makes no mention of this this requirement, not even in the notes. Hopefully, you are correct though as I have no idea what else would be the matter.

P3R wrote:Also the compatibility list states PCIE as the interface for your module, which I assume mean that you need to have either the QM2-2P or the QM2-2P10G1T add-on card to use it.

This disclaimer is a fixed port of the matrix form. I have no idea what this card is, but I assumed it was some kind of riser card so you could actually put the m2.SSDs on-board and since it was not mentioned in the explicit instructions for the TVS-473 I didn't pay it any mind.

P3R wrote:The other approach would be to select an M.2 module that is listed as SATA 6Gb/s in the compatibility list I think.

II understood that selecting an m2.SSD from the compatabilty matrix was not optional, and why I picked a model from that list which is reasonably priced and matched the model number exactly. The only change I later made was that I ordered a second of the same kind since someone else strongly recommended that if I were to use them in QTier that I would want them mirrored in case one fails so there isn't data loss. Or is that what you are saying- to get a second m2.SSD?

Trexx · Post by **Trexx** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:50 pm

960 EVO won’t work on the internal m.2 on the x73. You need the 850s. Only other option is to get the qm2p pcie card which will work with the 960s

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:27 pm

Trexx wrote:960 EVO won’t work on the internal m.2 on the x73. You need the 850s. Only other option is to get the qm2p pcie card which will work with the 960s

Sigh. Now it all makes sense. These m2.SSDs that have PCIE interface are the modules that need the QM2 card which I can only hope at least allows you to mount a pair of m2.SSDs on them. Even though that message about the riser card was in a big red font, it was static and didn't make any mention that the critical information was in fact what info was in the Interface column. <SMH> I mean if they had made even the slightest effort to link that disclaimer to those m2.SSD's which had PCIE as their "Interface" that would have made it crystal clear. Instead, they made it a little puzzle for you to figure out. If you wait and ask questions, you win by being told the correct m2.SSDs to buy and that you should otherwise ignore the compatibility matrix because- hey- that thing's totally misleading! Instad, people like me who foolishly read the documentation which apparently only seems straightforward... in fact it is anything but. If you read it chances are you'll be a chump like me and buy the wrong m2.SSD and then dutifully take the label off and put a heat sink on it, effectively voiding the warranty. That's. Just. Terrific. Couldn't they have said anything about the information connection between it having "PCIE" in the "Interface" column so that the need for that QM2P card could have been avoided? Instead, now I have no choice but to buy it now. I mean... come on. I am guessing it's expensive and takes 3 weeks to deliver too?

Ok sure, shame on me for not being intimately familiar with all the varieties of m2.SSDs that are available along with the various ways they can be attached to a motherboard. Clearly I should have studied that first because I sure wasn't going to learn anything useful that from their documentation! Those of us who might not have a lot of experience working with these specialized SSDs could easily make that same mistake and buy the wrong thing when all other indicators on the compatibility page say that it's the right thing! Did they not see that they laid a trap for people here, especially when the only notes they add are to effectively void the warranty?!?

Serves me right for RTFM and thinking that equipped me with the necessary knowledge! So now I have some m2.SSD module that I paid a lot of money for and have voided the warranty for by peeling off the copper sticker and putting the stupid heat sink on it. Terrific. So I guess I am wasting my last expansion slot on this QM2 card (assuming I can get even one delivered in a reasonable amount of time) unless I can somehow ** Amazon into taking the module back.

GRRR...

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:04 pm

Oh yes, of course the QM2 card costs $250. Man, they couldn't have don't that any more perfectly!

Trexx · Post by **Trexx** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:39 pm

DarfNader wrote:Oh yes, of course the QM2 card costs $250. Man, they couldn't have don't that any more perfectly!

You may just want to get at this point the ssd+10GbE card version. Other option down the road is to pull the usb 3.1 card out for 10GbE card swap.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:58 pm

Trexx wrote:
DarfNader wrote:Oh yes, of course the QM2 card costs $250. Man, they couldn't have don't that any more perfectly!
You may just want to get at this point the ssd+10GbE card version. Other option down the road is to pull the usb 3.1 card out for 10GbE card swap.

Yes, I would probably do that... except that card doesn't appear to be compatible with the TVS-473. In fact, I am looking at the QNAP accessories for the TVS-473 and there doesn't appear to be any SSD riser cards for it. I guess that means that 1) those m2.SSDs QNAP claims are compatible with the TVS-473 but only with the QM2 card are in fact not compatible at all because QNAP doesn't offer a compatibility solution for that model and 2) I am stuck with this m2.SSD that I bought based on QNAP's misinformation and now I have no use for it.

I guess I just have to face it... I got completely boned. Hopefully I can explain that to Amazon and that the information that QNAP provided on their compatibility page for m2.SSDs was grossly inaccurate and maybe with that they will still let me get my money back for it.

Trexx · Post by **Trexx** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:46 am

Hold tight for a little bit while I check with a contact at QNAP to verify. I am pretty sure it is compatible, but let me verify that. I should hear back by the beginning of the week.

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:02 am

Trexx wrote:Hold tight for a little bit while I check with a contact at QNAP to verify. I am pretty sure it is compatible, but let me verify that. I should hear back by the beginning of the week.

Do you mean the QM2 card?

Trexx · Post by **Trexx** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:07 am

DarfNader wrote:
Trexx wrote:Hold tight for a little bit while I check with a contact at QNAP to verify. I am pretty sure it is compatible, but let me verify that. I should hear back by the beginning of the week.
Do you mean the QM2 card?

Correct.

Toxic17 · Post by **Toxic17** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:18 am

DarfNader wrote:I guess I just have to face it... I got completely boned. Hopefully I can explain that to Amazon and that the information that QNAP provided on their compatibility page for m2.SSDs was grossly inaccurate and maybe with that they will still let me get my money back for it.

Cant see why Amazon would not allow you to return the m.2 PCIe SSD or even swap them for m.2 SATA SSD's. Best if you chat to one of the Customer support staff.

DarfNader · Post by **DarfNader** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Toxic17 wrote:
DarfNader wrote:I guess I just have to face it... I got completely boned. Hopefully I can explain that to Amazon and that the information that QNAP provided on their compatibility page for m2.SSDs was grossly inaccurate and maybe with that they will still let me get my money back for it.
Cant see why Amazon would not allow you to return the m.2 PCIe SSD or even swap them for m.2 SATA SSD's. Best if you chat to one of the Customer support staff.

I was able to put the sticker back and it looks halfway decent. They hopefully will take it back. I just don't understand why the SSD fit in the slot but it wasn't seen? very strange. I don't understand what the interface difference on the chart really means, honestly. I took it to mean that the SSD interface for the module is the the same form-factor since they fit in the m2.SSD slots like they are supposed to, but do the PCIE interface m2.SSD modules have different pins or are they clocked differently which forces them to run on the PCIE riser?

Anyway, I actually found a 1 TB Crucial 2280 m2.SSD on Amazon for a good price and is on the matrix as SATA 6 GB/s so I just bought a pair of them so I should be good to go as long as they accept the Samsung EVO 960 module that is already with UPS.

I must have bought about $6K worth of stuff from Amazon this month and have returned $4K of it! I am sure that will have to trip some red flag on me! Hopefully this TVS-473 will be as amazing as it looks on paper as effectively an 8" x 8" x 10" server room. (At least by 2007 standards anyway.)

Thanks again to you and all of the other friendly folks who have helped this QNAP n00b sort his stuff out. I I have been working in SysAdmin (now DevOps) for over 20 years but I guess I just don't get my hands on enough physical hardware anymore to keep up with it. I used to be on top of it, but my specialty was more about getting older gear to work more efficiently than getting the latest and the greatest, so this QNAP project is a bit of a departure for me. I think it will allow me do host of activities that I presently run in the cloud or scrape together on my poor relic MacMini from 2012 which is still somehow faster and better to use than my 2015 MBP Retina with the same RAM and faster storage. It will be that much better with all of these services running elsewhere.

I guess you'll be hearing from me at my next impasse.

Good night!

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