Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

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titusc
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Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by titusc » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:14 pm

I'm looking to upgrade my existing 4 bay NAS to one that can allow read speed to saturate a 10Gbps link in RAID6 with spinning disks. This appears to be not achievable with a 1U rack mounted solution because it only have 4 disks, right?

My understanding is RAID6 with 6 disks provides 4 x read speed of a single drive. So it appears we can say the following?
6 x ST2000NE0025 (2TB each at 195MB/s): 780MB/s with 8TB usable
6 x ST2000VN004 (2TB each at 180MB/s): 720MB/s with 8TB usable

This isn't enough to saturate a 10Gbps connection so if we step up to 8 disks this provides 6 x read speed of a single drive and we have:
8 x ST2000NE0025 (2TB each at 195MB/s): 1170MB/s with 12TB usable
8 x ST2000VN004 (2TB each at 180MB/s): 1080MB/s with 12TB usable
8 x ST1000VN002 (1TB each at 180MB/s): 1080MB/s with 6TB usable, which is $480 for 8 disks of $60 each.

Just to compare if we use larger and less SSDs which allows us to buy a smaller NAS but the disks themselves are cost prohibitive.
4 x ZA3840NM10001 (3.84TB each at 560MB/s): 1120MB/s with 7.68TB usable, which is $3908 for 4 disks of $977 each.

It appears 8 bay NAS with regular spinning disks is the most cost effective solution to achieve the goal of being able to provide read of roughly 10Gbps? Are there any benchmarks done to support this?

P3R
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Re: Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by P3R » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:12 pm

titusc wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:14 pm
It appears 8 bay NAS with regular spinning disks is the most cost effective solution to achieve the goal of being able to provide read of roughly 10Gbps?
Yes. Bob Zelin that work with many professional video edititing users have been saying this many times here in the forum. Search for his posts.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

bokr71
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Re: Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by bokr71 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:00 am

I am not about to get technical, but I believe I am saturating the Thunderbolt 2 interface with my NAS. I have a Raid6 setup with 6 x 10TB HGST UltraStar DC HC510 (249/225 MB/s). In addition I have a read/write cache using 2 x Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB NVMe SSDs (3,500 MB/s) in Raid1.

Using Thunderbolt 2 between my Mac Pro and my NAS I get;
Image
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

Bob Zelin
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Re: Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by Bob Zelin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:37 am

you are not about to get technical ? Why not ? This is a technical forum. You are getting just over 1000 MB/sec on a Thunderbolt 2 to 10G interface. That is GREAT. You are not going to go any faster than this on a Thunderbolt 3 to 10G interface to a 10G NAS from a single workstation. I see in your profile that you have a TVS-872XT. This is a great small low cost NAS for video editing. You can easily do 4K and 6K workflow on this unit with Adobe Premiere, Davinci Resolve, FCP X and AVID Media Composer.

I would always use EIGHT drives for a config like this, but if you have six drives and you are getting this - well, you should be very happy.
OH - this is bokr71's system - not titusc. Sorry -
Mr titusc - you are over thinking this - I am not sure of what your application is - but you are correct. The most cost effective way of building a super fast NAS system is to get EIGHT 7200 RPM drives, in a single static volume RAID 5 or RAID 6 configuration.

I can't believe that they are still making 1 and 2TB drives.
I just did a google search on Seagate Ironwolf 1TB drives - and they are 5900 RPM drives. DO NOT GET THESE. You MUST get 7200 RPM drives if you expect to get wonderful speeds as you see in
bokr71's system above.

The smallest Ironwolf that is 7200 RPM appears to be the 4TB model. These are $165 a piece on Amazon. This will give you 24 TB of usable storage, and you will get great performance.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

bokr71
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Re: Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by bokr71 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:57 am

LOL - I know it is a technical forum, but what I mean by "not getting technical" is;

I have no idea what the calculations are to derive the optimum transfer rate in a Raid. I don't know what the max through-rate is on a Thunderbolt 2, Thunderbolt 3, GigaBit, or 10 GbE connection. Also, I have no clue what effect my cache has on the test.

What I do know, is that I transfer files to/from my NAS, and I edit multiple files in various applications, with absolutely no problem, just as fast as had I stored the files on my Mac Pro. It is long since that I was the speed limitation on anything I do on my computers...
Apple: nMP 3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700 - 2 x ATD - Echo Express 1TB Accelsior/2x500GB Sonnet Tempo - MBP 13" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MBA 13" 2c i7/8GB/250GB - MB 12" 4c i7/16GB/512GB - MMI 6c i5/8GB/500GB - 2 x TC 3TB - iPhone Xs - iPad Mini - iPad Pro - 2 x HomePod - 42mm Apple Watch

Primary NAS: QNAP TVS-872XT 6x10TB + 2x512GB NVMe SSD. BackUp NAS: ReadyNAS Pioneer Pro 6x4TB

Network: 2 x HP2915 - LinkSys Velop AC6600

Bob Zelin
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Re: Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by Bob Zelin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:29 am

listen bokr71 -
we know that you know exactly what you are doing. I "thought" I was talking to titusc (who has yet to respond). You have a great TVS-872XT (and great speeds) - I would not be so proud of my 42mm **, as this will be obsolete in less than 3 years, and Apple will require up to buy an "update". In the old days, you spent $350 for a watch (or more) and you used that for the rest of your life. Today - in 2021, it goes into the landfill. Well NOT ME !
I have my (fake) Bell & Ross, and you know what ? I can tell what time it is without my reading glasses - so to me - that is a SUCCESS ! And it's NOT going in the garbage in 2021.

Of course, now waiting for titusc to respond.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

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Re: Number of bays required for 10Gbps read

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:19 am

NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 Samsung 850 Evo raid1 cache acceleration read only. QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter addon.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung EcoGreen F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TS-659 Pro
[Backup] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB Western Digital RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[Backup] QNAP TS-228
[Backup] QNAP TS-128 w. 1x 1TB Western Digital RE3 (WD1002FBYS)

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100mbps dl/50mbps ul FTTH Internet | Windows 10 Enterprise, Water Cooled PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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