TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

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casw1000
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by casw1000 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:26 am

deesto wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:53 pm
I was talking mostly about the comments earlier from @SR22pilot and @casw1000
Hi Deesto. Just to add some feedback. I upgraded to 80GB ram for now using the original 16GB and 2x 32GB Kingston ram, using the mentioned Kingston ram and its been stable and reliable. I found many times, that Samsung and Kingston validate their memory based on these enterprise manufacturers specifications, which is driven by Intel or AMD's processor and respective controllers. Unless I missed a bit of news, I dont believe that Qnap makes memory, they will likely use Micron or similar branded modules and choose that brand as its official memory supply.

The statement about the ATX boards, I find a bit perplexing. I have never heard of ATX Ram. I strongly feel this statement is incorrect/misleading. Additionally, ATX is a form factor rather than a specification itself. So they are correct in saying the QNAP boards are not ATX boards, and are bespoke, fair point.

The second statement saying the ram is not compatible is again slightly misleading, whereas not supported is more accurate (IMO). Qnap has (to the best of my knowledge) always stated to replace original ram as part of any troubleshooting process. Also to run memtest on non qnap branded memory.

Further more, "you may notice that streaming high bit stream files causes buffering and file disconnections, this can also damage the main board, cpu and shorten the life of your disks." - I would like to see some technical data that backs this statement up. So, how does streaming data damage the main board, cpu and shorten the life of disks, because of the ram? Yes you could experience buffering and other file disconnections.... but.... I dont technically see how this could damage the cpu.

If the ram used is technically incompatible, such as voltages or speed, or chip density / configuration, then i would expect more of a BIOS boot failure, or instability of the NAS almost immediately after installing the ram. However, when choosing a ram upgrade, its always a good practice to upgrade using the same DIMM module configuration that is provided by the manufacturer's specifications.

Also to ask about the prices you mentioned, I paid £308 for 64GB from an online etailer. it's currently more expensive on a certain larger etailer and for sure price does vary, but I have not seen it that high. Where did you see the $1200 for 64GB ram. I am thinking of buying another 2x 32GB or I might wait until I really need it.

Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. I dont know if this helps at all, but I felt the need to respond to the quotes you provided. So this is not aimed at you, just the quoted info.
Kingston Ram.PNG
Regards,
Colin.
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G10ra
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by G10ra » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:02 am

dolbyman wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:31 pm
Seems like a good deal .. a brand new model for 1/3 off .. hope there is nothing wrong with it
Thanks
looking for a potential Qnap Nas....... hunt is on

deesto
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by deesto » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:34 pm

casw1000 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:26 am
deesto wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:53 pm
I was talking mostly about the comments earlier from @SR22pilot and @casw1000
Hi Deesto. Just to add some feedback. I upgraded to 80GB ram for now using the original 16GB and 2x 32GB Kingston ram, using the mentioned Kingston ram and its been stable and reliable. I found many times, that Samsung and Kingston validate their memory based on these enterprise manufacturers specifications, which is driven by Intel or AMD's processor and respective controllers. Unless I missed a bit of news, I dont believe that Qnap makes memory, they will likely use Micron or similar branded modules and choose that brand as its official memory supply.

The statement about the ATX boards, I find a bit perplexing. I have never heard of ATX Ram. I strongly feel this statement is incorrect/misleading. Additionally, ATX is a form factor rather than a specification itself. So they are correct in saying the QNAP boards are not ATX boards, and are bespoke, fair point.

The second statement saying the ram is not compatible is again slightly misleading, whereas not supported is more accurate (IMO). Qnap has (to the best of my knowledge) always stated to replace original ram as part of any troubleshooting process. Also to run memtest on non qnap branded memory.

Further more, "you may notice that streaming high bit stream files causes buffering and file disconnections, this can also damage the main board, cpu and shorten the life of your disks." - I would like to see some technical data that backs this statement up. So, how does streaming data damage the main board, cpu and shorten the life of disks, because of the ram? Yes you could experience buffering and other file disconnections.... but.... I dont technically see how this could damage the cpu.

If the ram used is technically incompatible, such as voltages or speed, or chip density / configuration, then i would expect more of a BIOS boot failure, or instability of the NAS almost immediately after installing the ram. However, when choosing a ram upgrade, its always a good practice to upgrade using the same DIMM module configuration that is provided by the manufacturer's specifications.

Also to ask about the prices you mentioned, I paid £308 for 64GB from an online etailer. it's currently more expensive on a certain larger etailer and for sure price does vary, but I have not seen it that high. Where did you see the $1200 for 64GB ram. I am thinking of buying another 2x 32GB or I might wait until I really need it.

Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. I dont know if this helps at all, but I felt the need to respond to the quotes you provided. So this is not aimed at you, just the quoted info.
Kingston Ram.PNG
Regards,
Colin.
Dear Colin,

Just to respond to your comments furthermore. This is indeed all what I had argued (very strongly) to Matt Webster (in particular what you mentioned in regards to it not being compatible vs. unsupported). Yet they stayed too firm on their incompatibility response.

I - like you - find it all ludicrous, though! (So thank you for corroborating some more info in on it).

Go figure?!

But they know best (or not?), it seems!

In regards to the price, I bought 2x32GB KINGSTON models for £170 each, in line with your pricing more or less (I bought from Amazon whom supplied next day, but otherwise - and as it stands - the pricing you quoted seems most correct and in line to what it SHOULD be.

I mentioned the higher pricing (1200USD) if going direct to QNAP and buying THEIR memory from their shop (US based) -seeing as this is what they suggest and seem to leave us not option but. So I was complaining as to how uncompetitive that was, as well as pointing out a very unfair and marked-up pricing (personally, i feel there is no need to be so greedy after investing £2000-2500 on QNAP products).

Lastly, my factory memory is made by Innodisk, not Micron. Chances are this is what it will be if bought from QNAP shop directly... although in all likelihood, they may still be putting Micron chips on the innodisk boards :D! I can't remember off the top of my head but I think there was a guy who said someone else said their innodisks boards full of Micron chips. Don't quote me on that though.. Mine is now buried with all screws back in place, etc, - otherwise i'd go and check to see if i could spot anything external that said so?!

"Qnap has (to the best of my knowledge) always stated to replace original ram as part of any troubleshooting process. Also to run memtest on non qnap branded memory"

Well, this is indeed correct. Not sure if I managed to quote that bit of the response earlier. But this is accurate.

"If the ram used is technically incompatible, such as voltages or speed, or chip density / configuration, then i would expect more of a BIOS boot failure, or instability of the NAS almost immediately after installing the ram"

Again, something I argued to Matt, but didn't care to comment and I did not get a reply or a response on that. Shame! I also asked for fact-based evidence and spec.ed evidence to his argument. Again they just said they would not further comment as I had incompatible and unsupported ram installed and that it was the end of the matter.

Where did you get your RAM? Just curious to see if they offer a good price when in need, and so i get the full 128GB of RAM possible eventually.

I'd like to upgrade the W-1250 to a W-1290, but it's still not readily available. Perhaps something else will be compatible instead (with similar consumption specs)?

Thank you for writing back in, Colin!

deesto
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by deesto » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:45 pm

Also, to me it feels like with the ATX argument thrown, it just seems to be a very politically correct statement just to back the support reply (just to wash their hands of everything). Again, not sure how fact based that response is.. as I do not have that kind of knowledge at my disposal (as otherwise I'd argue it back once again).

So I'm merely venting out my frustration with the lack of information and clarity from QNAP in on this.

I understand they prefer us to install memory that has been exclusively tested for the unit, especially when troubleshooting it (and to protect a source of further revenue).

I just don't understand why they would claim it is incompatible though, and potentially damaging to the unit. That seems like quite the stretch.

Conclusion to anyone else reading, if you can afford to do so, and can easily buy RAM directly from QNAP, maybe do so..? Otherwise if anyone can back these facts, please do comment so we stand corrected.

casw1000
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by casw1000 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:17 pm

@Deesto.

I was going to buy from Amazon the memory as I found it there. But then I kept searching daily to see who had it in stock (not many to be honest) and found CCL Computers had it for £150, and I paid extra £5 for next day delivery. It's the exact same memory kit, so I thought why not.

Glad I could share my views and help you.

QNAPDanielFL
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by QNAPDanielFL » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 am

deesto wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:25 am
QNAPDanielFL wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:39 am
Any ideas on the above, Daniel?
When it comes to RAM we don't officially support, I don't have much to say. There could be similar RAM to our supported RAM that might work. And other RAM might not work. I don't advise on what unsupported RAM might be best to use. I leave those kinds of recommendations to others who don't work for QNAP. But if unsupported RAM was used bassed on others on the forums saying it worked for them, I would recommend keeping the old RAM so that if there was a problem, you could put the original RAM back in and prove the RAM was not the issue.

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marcoi
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marcoi » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:37 pm

Anyone having issues with latest firmware and running virtual station VMs? I have a ticket opened for my tvs-1688x system. Recently i updated the FW on my unit and since the new FW i been having some issues. First was dashboard monitor alerting my m2 drive temps were high. I dont know what they were getting up to prior but this was the first time i saw the warning and I had the unit for a few months. Second issue is when i run a W10 VM on my unit it causes the system to become unstable to the point i need to reboot the nas. I dont know if it VS having an issue, or how the VM configured etc. Originally i though the hot m2 caching the VMs might caused it but tonight i added heatsinks to my m2 drives and set the cpu fans to 100 via manual mode. m2s were around 40C range under those conditions. I also removed all caching from the VM folder and VM storage setting. Running W10 lastest version and Crystal disk Mark seems to trigger the issues. I have plenty of resources on the NAS as i upgraded the ram and also have the VM files on R10 4x enterprise ssd drives.

casw1000
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by casw1000 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:08 pm

I have not seen any stability issues and I am running firmware h4.5.3.1698 on my h1288x nas. You don't mention what the version is your running. I dont have any extra cooling on my M.2 or nvme ssd's, and my temps are shown below. Keeping in mind the hot weather here in the UK and my nas is in my office, not air conditioned.

M.2 SSD1 - 49c 1.7TB MP510 <-- used for iSCSI storage and some shared vmware nas storage across dedicated 10Gb network
SSD 870 QVO 1TB 2.5" - 34c <-- used as a mirror for boot / applications only
SSD 870 QVO 1TB 2.5" - 34c <-- used as a mirror for boot / applications only
M.2 PCIe SSD 500gb - 51c <-- used as cache acceleration Raid-0
M.2 PCIe SSD 500gb - 48c <-- used as cache acceleration Raid-0

I could probably put after market heat spreaders on the last 2 SSD's and maybe on the M.2 MP510, but I have not had any real stuttering or warnings yet. I might try this.

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marcoi
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marcoi » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:43 pm

Here are the details of my unit.
Model name TVS-h1688X
CPU Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-1250 CPU @ 3.30GHz (6 cores, 12 threads)
Total memory 128 GB (126 GB usable)
Firmware version h4.5.3.1698 Build 20210612
m2 drives 2 X Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB setup for Cache Acceleration

Current temps with CPU fans set to 100%
M.2 SSD 1 controller temperature 43°C / 109°F
M.2 SSD 2 controller temperature 43°C / 109°F

With fans set to auto
M.2 SSD 1 controller temperature 48°C / 118°F
M.2 SSD 2 controller temperature 48°C / 118°F

Heat sinks we added last night to the m2 drives. Probably take some time before the thermal pads settle in. I did request in my support ticket that the cpu fan monitor m2 temps and ramp up if needed vs only watching the CPU temps.

In my server room (spare bedroom) I have other server equipment running in the room and the average temp in the room is about 87F ( located in FL) which is about 15F higher then rest of the house. The door is always closed due to noise. I also have a fan setup in front of the rack to blow air over equipment and the nas is on the lowest location so no other heat comes from other servers to it.

I dont think my issue totally related to heat. I think the heat warning was a result of the issues with Virtual Station VM causing the system to become unstable. I dont know if it due to using virtio drivers for storage or something between app and latest firmware update. I am waiting to hear back from support.

Right now I am just avoiding using Virtual Station all together.
Model name TVS-h1688X
CPU Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-1250 CPU @ 3.30GHz (6 cores, 12 threads)
Total memory 128 GB (126 GB usable)

cacakaka
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by cacakaka » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:27 pm

I noticed that a new feature was added to support for Single Root I/O Virtualization (SR-IOV) since QuTS hero h4.5.2.1638 build 20210414.
But I can't find the feature or setting in TVS-h1288x.
I searched from www.qnap.com and found only 11 models that support SR-IOV, e.g. TS-h686/TS-h886.
(“https://www.qnap.com.cn/en-us/software/ ... on-station”)
I want to know when will TVS-h1288x supports SR-IOV.
May I replace the 10GbE Network Card to support SR-IOV.

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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by cacakaka » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:05 pm

SR22pilot wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:19 am
m.2 NVME drives will be faster than SATA SSDs by a large factor. If you want the fastest access then I suggest 2 NVME drives in RAID1. What I did was an nVME cache (2 sticks of 2TB each) and then 4 2TB SATA SSD's in RAID 10 for my first pool. That still gives fast access for QuTS and for applications with fast random reads and writes. I have a TVS-h1688x.

For memory, my unit came with 32GB which consists of 2 sticks of Kingston 16GB 2Rx8 PC4-3200AA-EE1-12. The real number you need though is the model number which is Kingston KSM32ED8/16ME. Buying two of that model will add 32GB. I added 64GB by adding two sticks of Kingston KSM32ED8/32ME. Note that the only change is the 16 to 32 on the end of the model number. I now have 96GB and it works fine. Just Google the model numbers for sources.

I hope this helps.
Hi,SR22pilot:
Like you, I added another 2x32GB PC4-3200 of memories. I now have 96GB and it works fine.
But I found the memory work at clock speed 2400 MT/s, not 2666 MT/s.
After some tests, I found only install two channels (channels 1 and 3, or channel 2 and 4) of memories, it run at clock speed 2666 MT/s, whatever the original build in memories or the new memories I bought.
When install four channels,it run down to 2400 MT/s.

Could you make a test to check the real memory clock speed work in your TVS-h1288x.
Connet to TVS-h1288x by SSH and run the command "dmidecode -t memory"
And you will find the result as below:
Configured Clock Speed: 2400 MT/s
Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
Memory Technology: DRAM

casw1000
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by casw1000 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:43 pm

cacakaka - I also run the check and copy my results here. This is with 80gb ram.

Code: Select all

[~] # [~] # dmidecode -t memory
# dmidecode 3.1
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.2.0 present.

Handle 0x003A, DMI type 16, 23 bytes
Physical Memory Array
        Location: System Board Or Motherboard
        Use: System Memory
        Error Correction Type: Single-bit ECC
        Maximum Capacity: 64 GB
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Number Of Devices: 4

Handle 0x003B, DMI type 17, 84 bytes
Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x003A
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 72 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: 8192 MB
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: ChannelA-DIMM0
        Bank Locator: BANK 0
        Type: DDR4
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 3200 MT/s
        Manufacturer: 86F1
        Serial Number: C795003A
        Asset Tag: 9876543210
        Part Number: M4C0-8GSSMCEM
        Rank: 2
        Configured Clock Speed: 2400 MT/s
        Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
        Memory Technology: DRAM
        Memory Operating Mode Capability: Volatile memory
        Firmware Version: Not Specified
        Module Manufacturer ID: Bank 7, Hex 0xF1
        Module Product ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Manufacturer ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Product ID: Unknown
        Non-Volatile Size: None
        Volatile Size: 8 GB
        Cache Size: None
        Logical Size: None

Handle 0x003C, DMI type 17, 84 bytes
Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x003A
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 72 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: 32 GB
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: ChannelA-DIMM1
        Bank Locator: BANK 1
        Type: DDR4
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 3200 MT/s
        Manufacturer: Kingston
        Serial Number: E54605DA
        Asset Tag: 9876543210
        Part Number: 9965745-020.A00G
        Rank: 2
        Configured Clock Speed: 2400 MT/s
        Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
        Memory Technology: DRAM
        Memory Operating Mode Capability: Volatile memory
        Firmware Version: Not Specified
        Module Manufacturer ID: Bank 2, Hex 0x98
        Module Product ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Manufacturer ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Product ID: Unknown
        Non-Volatile Size: None
        Volatile Size: 32 GB
        Cache Size: None
        Logical Size: None

Handle 0x003D, DMI type 17, 84 bytes
Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x003A
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 72 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: 8192 MB
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: ChannelB-DIMM0
        Bank Locator: BANK 2
        Type: DDR4
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 3200 MT/s
        Manufacturer: 86F1
        Serial Number: C795003B
        Asset Tag: 9876543210
        Part Number: M4C0-8GSSMCEM
        Rank: 2
        Configured Clock Speed: 2400 MT/s
        Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
        Memory Technology: DRAM
        Memory Operating Mode Capability: Volatile memory
        Firmware Version: Not Specified
        Module Manufacturer ID: Bank 7, Hex 0xF1
        Module Product ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Manufacturer ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Product ID: Unknown
        Non-Volatile Size: None
        Volatile Size: 8 GB
        Cache Size: None
        Logical Size: None

Handle 0x003E, DMI type 17, 84 bytes
Memory Device
        Array Handle: 0x003A
        Error Information Handle: Not Provided
        Total Width: 72 bits
        Data Width: 64 bits
        Size: 32 GB
        Form Factor: DIMM
        Set: None
        Locator: ChannelB-DIMM1
        Bank Locator: BANK 3
        Type: DDR4
        Type Detail: Synchronous
        Speed: 3200 MT/s
        Manufacturer: Kingston
        Serial Number: 73590BD2
        Asset Tag: 9876543210
        Part Number: 9965745-020.A00G
        Rank: 2
        Configured Clock Speed: 2400 MT/s
        Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
        Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
        Memory Technology: DRAM
        Memory Operating Mode Capability: Volatile memory
        Firmware Version: Not Specified
        Module Manufacturer ID: Bank 2, Hex 0x98
        Module Product ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Manufacturer ID: Unknown
        Memory Subsystem Controller Product ID: Unknown
        Non-Volatile Size: None
        Volatile Size: 32 GB
        Cache Size: None
        Logical Size: None

[~] # 
Also, just a side note, to run the command, you need to quit from the initial menu first, which should drop you back to a shell prompt.
Regards, Colin.

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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by hakkva » Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:48 pm

I get the same. 80GB Kingston memory:

Configured Clock Speed: 2400 MT/s
Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
Memory Technology: DRAM

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marcoi
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marcoi » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:42 pm

My tvs-h1688x with 4 x kingston 32GB ram showing
Configured Clock Speed: 2667 MT/s
Minimum Voltage: 1.2 V
Maximum Voltage: 1.2 V
Configured Voltage: 1.2 V
Memory Technology: DRAM
Model name TVS-h1688X
CPU Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-1250 CPU @ 3.30GHz (6 cores, 12 threads)
Total memory 128 GB (126 GB usable)

casw1000
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by casw1000 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:52 pm

So it looks like the faster memory is being slowed down to match the lower Mhz ratings. If all 4 are matched, then happy days as per Marcoi.

Thanks for posting Marcoi, its good to know.
Colin.

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