QNAP Expansion suggestion - TS-x53A or UX800P

[gana2k1@gmail.com]

Hi - I am wondering if someone can offer me some suggestions on which approach/model to buy for my alternate QNAP.
Here's my situation.
- I have a QNAP TS-451 with 4x WD REDs, Raid 5. I use this as my primary NAS device with Kodi and media streaming etc and also as my primary backup storage.
- I have a very old LG NAS drive which I use as a secondary backup for my primary NAS, which has 2 x 2TB (no raid).
This second LG NAS has filled up almost completely and I am looking to see what options/approach I should take for an alternate backup (second backup).

Should I buy a second QNAP Nas? If so, TS-x53a I really like and is within my budget.
Alternatively, should I add an expansion unit UX800P to my existing QNAP TS-451 and create another raid group?
Can you tell me which approach I should take - benefits of one over the other, is the UX800P with another raid group even possible? And would that be a resilient backup even if something goes wrong with my existing QNAP NAS?
So I am quite confused which option I should go with.

Any guidance would be appreciated.
Also what is the purpose/benefit of 4 LAN ports on the TS-x53a? How would this even be used? would file transfers occur concurrently on each of the port to give me more bandwidth/speed?

Thanks in advance

[gana2k1@gmail.com]

Ping. Anyone has any suggestions or advice or recommendations or answers?
Please?

Thanks
-Gan

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

i'd say x53a so i can update my main unit rather just get the same old using expansion. to my understanding the expansion is just a barebones unit that merely extends the storage.

i know for that you plug into it and it treats both unit like 1.

not sure how it would work with a different non expansion unit. i keep my pools on my different units separate, so can't say much on that configuration

[gana2k1@gmail.com]

Thanks for the response Moogle.
I was kinda leaning towards another NAS too instead of expansion.

-Gan

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

here found a pictorial

Missing mode protection
If your UX-800P is accidentally disconnected, the Turbo NAS enters missing mode and blocks I/O access to protect the stored data. The system can then recover from the missing mode to the normal state with data staying intact.

The UX-800P automatically powers on and off with your Turbo NAS, allowing for total convenience and energy saving.




https://www.qnap.com/i/en/product/model.php?II=120#f
https://www.qnap.com/i/en/product/items ... s.php?CA=4

Should I buy a second QNAP Nas? If so, TS-x53a I really like and is within my budget.
Alternatively, should I add an expansion unit UX800P to my existing QNAP TS-451 and create another raid group?
Can you tell me which approach I should take - benefits of one over the other, is the UX800P with another raid group even possible? And would that be a resilient backup even if something goes wrong with my existing QNAP NAS?

to be honest i'm not sure what sort of storage setup is suitable for you. better if someone who does use these expansion units can advise how that works, and how it compare to simply having a new unit rather than expansion.

[philhu]

ux800-p is junk

It connects as 8 usb drives to main unit, requires another raid group and in my testing, is 30% SLOWER than the nas it attaches too, probably due to the bottleneck of running 8 drives through 1 usb 3 connector. Synology exp box actually runs on esata, so the drives in that box are actually part of the raid group in the main nas, but not on QNAP UX800P!

I also had problems with mine overheating because of a bug when the raid group in it was building but the fan speeds were checked from the main nas, so the fans did not speed up in the exp box. First I lost 1 disk, then all then my entire storage pool.

To complete the build, I was forced to shoot a desk fan directly into the back of the unit to keep temps down

Now it is winter the temps are a bit lower and it runs fine, just slow.

QNAP is asking to connect to my system, to verify speed and fan ptroblems, I am asking them to set it up in their lab, as it is a hardware to OS problem, not my hardware

[P3R]

...is 30% SLOWER than the nas it attaches too, probably due to the bottleneck of running 8 drives through 1 usb 3 connector.

Of course it is.

Synology exp box actually runs on esata...

Which is also a performance bottleneck with a disk chassis of this size. In addition to that, eSATA is a non-existent interface on newer NAS-models.

...so the drives in that box are actually part of the raid group in the main nas...

Not supported on all NAS models if I understand things correctly. Also it isn't such a great idea anyway when someone accidentally disconnects the cable and you lose your entire RAID...

That's probably the reason Qnap choose not to make the expansion unit part of the internal RAID. In fact they do mention the Missing mode protection as a main feature of the chassis and in my opinion it's great they have it, as accidental disconnection is a major concern with expansion units in home and SMB markets.

Qnap offer expansion units with more appropriate interfaces than those mentioned above for their hi-end models.

@gana2k1,
A TS-853A cost only a little more (at least in my market) and is way more flexible and usable than a UX-800P.

[gana2k1@gmail.com]

Moogle - thank you for the screen shots. I noticed the same too.
philhu and p3r - thank you so much for your insight and suggestions - this kind of information and wisdom can only be gotten from experience of using it and not from the manual or reading online stuff , so thank you for steering me int he right direction.
I was leaning towards another NAS unit and your responses convinced me even more that there is not much benefit from the expansion unit. Also cost seems to be almost same/on par so I might as well get another NAS.

Thanks a lot folks.

-Gan

[Alan B'Stard]

Synology exp box actually runs on esata...

Which is also a performance bottleneck with a disk chassis of this size. In addition to that, eSATA is a non-existent interface on newer NAS-models.

But eSATA has a locking connector that is not subject to connection errors on cable movement. And looks faster based on some old data copied from an old Synology forum post:

External backup to eSATA NTFS – 10 DS models – 10.4 – 108.9 MB/s
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas- ... =archiveon

External backup to USB 3.0 NTFS – 4 DS models – 31.7 – 89.3 MB/s
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas- ... =archiveon


External backup to eSATA FAT – 15 DS models – 36.6 – 97.0 MB/s
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas- ... =archiveon

External backup to USB 3.0 FAT – 4 DS models – 28.1 – 87.5 MB/s
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas- ... =archiveon


External backup to eSATA EXT3 – 15 DS models – 43.8 – 84.2 MB/s
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas- ... =archiveon

External backup to USB 3.0 EXT3 – 4 DS models – 30.0 – 85.9 MB/s
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas- ... =archiveon

[schumaku]

But eSATA has a locking connector that is not subject to connection errors on cable movement.

Nope. A standard eSATA connector has no mechanical evident locking mechanism preventing from ripping a cable off the eSATA port. Unless you claim the USB A, USB B, USB mini, USB micro, or USB C or, Apples Lightning connectors have locks, too.

QNAP _does_ allow disconnecting and moving UX enclosures to other QNAP NAS in the meantime.

For some reasons QNAP has added provisions to potentially support USB cables with screws on the back USB 3.0 ports btw.

[Alan B'Stard]

Funneh, I once had a device with a click-locking "eSATA" connector. Maybe it's an optional variant.

[P3R]

Funneh, I once had a device with a click-locking "eSATA" connector. Maybe it's an optional variant.

Yes it may not be part of the standard but I have a locking cable as well. I'm not sure it would withstand much force though, it felt rather flimsy, but it's definitely better than nothing.

Anyway in my opinion the home/SMB environment still isn't a great place to do external chassis expansion. There's non-educated users, kids, pets around the equipment, which is also often placed in convenient but not so safe locations. Also in these market segments, requirements change very frequently as so much is based around the extremely fast moving media format and player business. I say it every time these discussions comes up, a separate NAS is much more flexible and adaptable for such changes than an expansion chassis.

The consequences of a sudden disconnection accelerates to disaster level when the external disks are used in the same volume as internal disks...

I'll happily expand an enterprise NAS externally with high speed interfaces and when all units are rack-mounted, or at least in designated computer rooms where only professionals have access.

And looks faster...

Yes, eSATA have less overhead but is still a bottleneck in this application.

So eSATA is slightly less bad than USB but that still doesn't make it a great interface for the large expansion chassis that's discussed here.

Also when the Qnap marketing people had their way and the company decided to develop these products, eSATA wasn't even an option since the majority of the NASes that are the target market only have USB. The choice of interface simply can't even have been up for discussion.

In my opinion they should have listened to an engineer explaining about the actual real throughput of USB and then divided that number with the number of disk bays. Maybe they even did that but at that point the marketing guy said: "It still sells more NASes as we have potential customers that think this expansion is a great idea". At that point the engineer left the room in disgust...

Yes, I'm a Dilbert fan and afterall it's friday night:




I hope everybody that works in marketing can laugh with me here and return this with jokes about the engineers that never deliver on time and are generally weird...

[P3R]

For some reasons QNAP has added provisions to potentially support USB cables with screws on the back USB 3.0 ports btw.

Now that you mention it, I looked and see those holes. Do they even supply cables with the appropriate locking screws with the USB-connected expansion chassis? Or maybe they changed direction and decided it was better to market the portability of expansion chassis as a feature instead?

Not that I would walk around with UX-800P full of disks very far, so it looks very much like a niche feature but at least it's another box to tick. Marketing loves that...

[schumaku]

Do they even supply cables with the appropriate locking screws with the USB-connected expansion chassis?

Never spotted any.

Or maybe they changed direction and decided it was better to market the portability of expansion chassis as a feature instead?

Interestingly, these portability ideas were about the first questions I remember form beta users.

Suspect they decided there is no need for the special cables - or for potential "cable holders" as seen ie. on some Canon SLR.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

i'm a dilbert fan myself



anyway ts let us know when you get your x53a. i await your review of it