AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

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AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by hulmevv » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:09 am

Unfortunately, my entire order is now on hold!! ...Due to some type of "QUALITY CONTROL CONCERNS" Amazon has with the QNAP TS-877~!
While I did place my order for the "Qnap TS-877-1700-16G-US High-Performance 8 bay (6+2) NAS/iSCSI IP-SAN. AMD Ryzen 7 1700 8-core 3.0GHz, 16GB RAM, 10G-ready" Sever on December 10, 2017 for a TOTAL order cost of just over $6k, with HDD's, SSD's, RAM & GPU...
(SEVER LINK: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1 )
...and I did so when the inventory still showed to have units in stock. (I also chose expedited shipping for the entire order.) All other components; HDD's, SSD's, RAM upgrade, GPU, and even the 550w power supply & IR remote I ordered through B&H; have either arrived, or are currently in transit for arrival prior to the end of the week. The only exception is the QNAP TS-877 itself! And so I contacted Amazon today, to try and get more info than the only message I have received, which simply says, "you will be informed by email when your device has shipped".

I WAS TOLD THAT ALL QNAP TS-877 SHIPMENTS FROM AMAZON ARE "ON HOLD, DUE TO A QUALITY CONTROL PROBLEM"!! The U.S. based customer service went on to say, "that this appears to be related to the unit's specification & description calming some type of capabilities or capacities that other customers have reported the unit is not capable or able to perform and/or yield."
...I then asked him why I saw no reviews reflecting this same dissipating news from past customers??
...I told him that I had seen the inventory be depleted and refreshed for this exact item more than once; but again, I had yet to see a single review posted which made mention of these frustration. I also mentioned that I had to make several calls to confirm the availability and to make sure my own shipment was expedited; and at no point had any other Amazon representative, made mention of this delay, or this quality control concern. He just said, "that Amazon was wanting to make sure that no more customers received a product that they were disappointed by, since they were the one's making good on the fulfillment of these Amazon Prime, shipped QNAP TS-877's."

I asked if there was a way for me to directly contact Amazon's "quality control group" (whom he said had made this call to "stop all shipments";) so that I might get more details as to what this issue was, and when they expected to begin shipments again? He said "no, there was no way for me to make such an inquiry, and that he was only reading me these internal notes, because he knew I had made a sizable order for this Server and all the supporting drives & components."
(This call and conversation took place earlier today, at 14:00 HST on 12/19/2017)

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Trexx » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:51 pm

News to me. I have not heard similar feedback from span.com. I reached out to Qnap about this post.


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Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by QNAPJames » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:31 pm

Hi there,

Sorry I believe there was a miscommunication and our customer service gave you a wrong answer. There’s no quality control issue as far as I know, just due to a high demand of TVS-x77 series, it’s out of stock in many places and we have been working on that. If you have any questions regarding this, feel free to contact us at usasales@qnap.com.

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by dolbyman » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:11 pm

sounds more like amazon gave that answer ..not QNAP

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by schumaku » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:28 pm

In my opinion these NAS are in a complexity level beyond of what should be sold on and by Amazon. Easy to blame whatever issues.

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:36 pm

my ts-877 just arrived. i did not noticed this quality issue (which seems awfully generalized without pointing a specific issue which makes me wonder how credible this complaint is to begin with :S other than out of stock due to demand :mrgreen: )

might be true i don't know, but in my case i did not find find any issues so far.

what exactly is it not able to perform?

i just installed a MSI GeForce GTX 1050 AERO ITX 2G graphics card then tested it out on virtual station win10 64bit, it worked.


From Youtube.com



i also installed 2 x m.2 samsung 850 evo for ssd caching (read only) raid1. i read the instructions, it was simple enough to put on the m.2 heatsinks and install it. I check the temp after a day and there doesn't seem to be any overheating, so seems to work as intended.

and using 4 x 4tb HGST Deskstar NAS hdds for raid5

From Youtube.com




also tried playing Plex and Emby also worked fine without stutter.

From Youtube.com


enabled a bunch of apps from appcenter and the many cpus didn't even break a sweat.


started with 4.3.3 first then later switched to the latest 4.3.4 beta (i made backups to ts-653a first using HBS) seems stable for me, though probably need to wait a few weeks to a month to comment further on stability.

ryzen is a new platform, and maybe there will be bios updates for agesa to improve stability and more ram compatibility (however it's already been out for a while now, and most of the issues should have been ironed out by now). also i think in the news there was mention about a NPT bug on ryzen though i heard that got fixed already

From Youtube.com


On Linux, with the launch of Ryzen from AMD this type of workload had been problematic. At first the platform was not well suited for sharing PCIe resources between host and guest. This turned out to be a software oversight and was fixed within a couple of months of the launch of Ryzen via an AGESA platform update from AMD.

as of this article the bug has been fixed (mad props to Geoffrey and Paolo)

https://level1techs.com/article/patch-n ... erformance

One area where AMD Ryzen users have encountered Linux issues with virtualization is when trying to setup pass-through support for a graphics card to allow the virtual machine direct access to the GPU. When NPT (Nested Page Tables) are enabled, performance can become severely degraded.

GPU/PCI pass-through problems have affected the small number of Ryzen Linux users trying to setup such a configuration, mostly for gaming, when NPT is enabled. Some have thought it was a hardware bug, etc, but the good news is a fix is in the works.

A Phoronix reader pointed out this mailing list post by Geoffrey McRae, "I have identified the issue! With NPT enabled I am now getting near bare metal performance with PCI pass through. The issue was with some stubs that have not been properly implemented. I will clean my code up and submit a patch shortly. This is a 10 year old bug that has only become evident with the recent ability to perform PCI pass-through with dedicated graphics cards. I would expect this to improve performance across most workloads that use AMD NPT."

With his pending fix for the Linux IOMMU code, there's nearly a 5x improvement in graphics performance when doing PCI pass-through of his GeForce GTX 1080 Ti paired with a Ryzen 7 processor.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ss-Through


maybe they are referring to that i wonder? that said the default ram and other stuff seems to work for me atm so i'm doing fine with the ts-877 8)


for vm setup i recommend this guide


From Youtube.com


also make sure to use virtio to improve performance

From Youtube.com



"that this appears to be related to the unit's specification & description claiming some type of capabilities or capacities that other customers have reported the unit is not capable or able to perform and/or yield."


ask them to clarify :' what specific issue. because until they do then well my impression is similar to that guy always calling everyone out on twitter :? (not calling you out, but them for that generalized statement :) cause how am i and others to check if the issue is true if we don't know what it is )
Image

easy to call something out without naming specifics based on factual info for other users to verify :lol:
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:59 pm, edited 6 times in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by hulmevv » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:26 pm

It was most definitely a vague and "generalized" statement from Amazon... Very frustrating, given how many months I have been anticipating placing this order and reeving this equipment. :-(
(@ Moogle Stiltzkin: Was the TS-877 you ordered and received, the AMD Ryzen 1600 or 1700 based unit? This order I've been denied is the 1700.)
I not only asked for clarification; I asked to be transferred to the "quality control team" who the U.S. based customer support rep claimed had placed the hold on shipping any more QNAP TS-877's. He had no more details, than those vague statements he made to me, and said there was no way for me to speak directly to the Amazon Quality Control group.
...Consequently, I have no QNAP TS-877 on the way; despite my order being placed prior to their previous inventory allotment running out of stock again. Although, all of the subsequent components I ordered and anticipated loading into the QNAP have either arrived, or are on the way! So I have almost $4,400 in accessories and drives already billed and on their way, with no $2,300 QNAP being fulfilled. Quite the frustrating waste of resources at the moment.

I'm just letting you know what they (Amazon) told me, about why my hard, cold cash is not being utilized and amounting to a final shipment. I can't really speak as to their own internal reasoning, or any details beyond those vague statements they gave me.
The title of this thread is still just as accurate (versus being any type of "Fake News") as it was the hour I posted it... "AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 (1700 version) - Claiming "quality control issues"!"

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:39 pm

hulmevv wrote:(@ Moogle Stiltzkin: Was the TS-877 you ordered and received, the AMD Ryzen 1600 or 1700 based unit? This order I've been denied is the 1700.)


using the 1600 model 8)

just updated my signature for my qnap data hoarder farm :shock:


From Youtube.com
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by hulmevv » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:48 pm

That may be the difference... Who knows?
...I'll update when I know more.


From Youtube.com

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:53 pm

hulmevv wrote:That may be the difference... Who knows?
...I'll update when I know more.


thx :)


From Youtube.com


i fixed your link for you. exclude the www youtube bit, just only add the code only.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Trexx » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:12 pm

A couple suggestions.... I would UNCAP most of the title as that tends to indicate more “verified” information.

I know Robbie over at span.com has x77 inventory (not sure on your config) and will ship to US. You might also check Newegg.

I also would agree with Schumaku that the QC issues are more likely “end user” issues without more concrete information.

The x77 box is a beast, but you need to know what you are doing.

The veterans on here see on a daily/weekly basis issues attributed to Qnap that really are user driven issues. And that is on far less complex systems than these.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Toxic17 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:05 pm

the Vast majority problems are between User and Keyboard :lol: :lol:
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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by Trexx » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:30 am

Just doing a quick check right now and Amazon is showing all the x77 base memory configs as in-stock/available other than the TS-877-1700 model. I wonder if they just had an inventory discrepancy and used the QC issue as an excuse rather than admitting mistake.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming

Post by hulmevv » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:10 pm

Trexx wrote:A couple suggestions.... I would UNCAP most of the title as that tends to indicate more “verified” information.

I know Robbie over at span.com has x77 inventory (not sure on your config) and will ship to US. You might also check Newegg.

I also would agree with Schumaku that the QC issues are more likely “end user” issues without more concrete information.

The x77 box is a beast, but you need to know what you are doing.

The veterans on here see on a daily/weekly basis issues attributed to Qnap that really are user driven issues. And that is on far less complex systems than these.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I didn't consider posting the information above until I had of course "verified" it multiple times!!
Caps or not, doesn't change the multiple conversation I had with Amazon about my $6,000 QNAP investment and it's canceled shipment, prior to posting this. Ignore the capitalization if it helps you. I see no syntax it its utilization given your specifications & encouragements which would equate to editing it at this time.

I did speak with amazon again last night; and asked them to dig deeper into the claims they were making. They remained vague, and would only add the following statement: "It has been reported that some customers had been receiving defective or lower capacity products than those they had originally ordered."
...I asked why this had not yet been reflected in reviews within the product description from any of those past purchasers? They had no explanation for that omission.

Again, my ordered has not been fulfilled or shipped to date, despite the fact that there was inventory when I placed it; and I had verification and an initial order fulfillment date sent to me. I specified the exact machine I requested from Amazon in my initial post above (with a link). It was not the "base" version of the TS-877.

"Robbie over at span," doesn't provide the free shipping to my region of the world! (Much less free returns!) Hence the reason I consistently depend on Amazon primes shipping and return policies. (For many projects here on the islands; including those beyond my technology work-spaces!)

The "know what you are doing factor", becomes a rather tiresome line of both questioning and patronizing within this forum. With other added remarks like "the Vast majority problems are between User and Keyboard" already showing up on this thread. As well as question related to application, and the possibility that more machine was ordered than needed. WHAT?

My 20+ years of experience in placing millions of dollars worth of hardware orders throughout my career, to serve both my personal businesses and the Divisions I managed; as well designing a multitude of Editing Bays, Countless Small Business Servers & Backup solutions, SAN solutions, Full Simulation Center Architecture & Facilitation, Network Rendering farms consisting of 100's of PCs, Scalable CG Production Environments, Semi-Automated Forces/Military Simulation Labs, VR and AR Development Centers, and the likes; have little to no bearing with my current frustration with Amazon fulfilling a rather simple personal order for a single server.
...And while this will be my first foray into a platform based on QNAP's proprietary OS/Framework and their related NAS & VM Server Utilities; I have little doubt the "beast of a machine" that I have ordered, will be VERY helpful in my current goals.

I have retired to the island of Kaua'i, and intend on tapping into the many resources of my past employees, partners & professional acquaintances as well as many new acquaintances, in order to pursue new simulation endeavors as both a Hololens Developer and a Urban Simulation Expert and Real-estate Consultant; without the benefit of being collocated with each of these team members.
...This hardware is just one of many solutions I am preparing for this endeavor. Insults, patronizing, and bizarre reprimands for capitulations, should really be reserved for some other means of communications and outlets. ...say Facebook!

Regardless of any additional details Amazon may or may not be aware of, or be willing to provide for delaying their fulfilling such orders; the information I initially provided in relation to the delay for my order, is not in debate. While any additional internal excuses Amazon may or may not have, are not something you or I are privy to at this time.

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Re: AMAZON HAS STOPPED SELLING THE TS-877 - Claiming "quality control issues"!

Post by gggplaya » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Regardless, what's you're saying is still "heresay" because it's not written anywhere or verified anywhere we can see. Also given that I can't find anyone complaining about the 877, I find it hard to believe there is an issue on such a massive scale that amazon would put a stop sale on it, in fact the Ryzen 1600 version is still in stock and selling. The only difference is the processor which has 2 more enabled cores, but both chips have the same 65W tdp and ccx complexes. I also haven't heard of any desktop builders with issues on their ryzen chips either.

Also, Amazon didn't stop selling the Ryzen 1700 version, they still offer it through a third party seller, just not directly from their own warehouse.

Perhaps the quality control issue isn't on QNAP's end, but rather on Amazon's end where they're sending people the wrong boxes with ryzen 1700's mixed with 1600's and vice-versa. The ryzen 1600 people aren't going to complain if they get a 1700, but I'm sure anyone ordering a 1700 will complain if they get a 1600.

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