HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

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WTree
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HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by WTree » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:26 pm

Hi,
My current setup for data storage is an External 3.5" Disk of 12TB capacity (75% full) connected to Macbook Pro directly. Three X 4 TB 2.5" External disks are used to do a manual back up regularly using carbon copy cloner program. I sit very close to my laptop (!) and the noise of the physically connected external drives is getting too much for me.

I am considering getting HS-453DX for its quietness, Network capabilities as well as possible Plex Media Server usage. Also, my wife likes to access the data and currently she connects her macbook to my macbook which is physically connected to external HDD.

Planned Set-up
NAS - HS-453DX
M.2 - 2 X 512 GB - Set as Raid 1 (to store the Applications etc)
3.5" HDD - 2 X 8TB - set as simple drive (as I want at least 12TB space and another 4 TB for future overhead)
External - 3.5" HDD 12TB - Connect to NAS and schedule a daily backup
External - 2.5" HDD 3 X 4TB - Connect to NAS via a USB hub and schedule a weekly backup

I need advice / opinion on my set up from best practices perspective

Raid - I know everybody loves it. Given my current setup and understanding that Raid is not backup, is there something I am missing out by not choosing any Raid for HDDs

Disk Failure - In my planned set up, If one of the HDD in NAS fails, can I buy a new HDD and replicate just that HDD from the back up

SSD / Cache / Provisioning - I understand that I need to populate the NAS first with M.2 SSD so that the NAS can see it as Disk 1 and put all the applications there. Since I am planning to do it in Raid 1, in case one of the M.2 fails I will still be able to operate the NAS and use all of its functions. Am I correct in my thinking?

Also, can the extra space on M.2 be set as SSD over-provisioning or/and SSD cache? As of now it is all Gigabit network but probably I will get a switch at some point of time to have NAS connected to the network at 10G speed. In that scenario only NAS will have the 10G speed but I am not sure if it helps anyway.

Thank you in anticipation

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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:24 pm

what about a desktop nas model? like a ts-453be ? then you can go 4hdds raid5. however for the m.2 you'll need the qm2 addon for m.2 NVME SSD x 2 , the qm2 addon can also give you a 10gbe port as well. If you want to keep sound levels in check you can lower your NAS fan speed, and perhaps use only low rpm hdds (the wd reds are to be quieter than the seagates)
https://www.kitguru.net/professional/ne ... as-review/

if you require a lighter and more compact (probably mobile as well, but not as much as my TBS-453DX :mrgreen: ), then yeah the HS-453DX fills that spot. it does say it's a silent NAS.
https://www.thestreamingblog.com/qnap-h ... as-review/

For plex transcoding performance check here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... tmMPc/edit

Intel Celeron J4105 quad-core 1.5 GHz processor (burst up to 2.5 GHz)


If you require higher bit rate 1080p transcoding then you will need either a plex pass (for the intel quick sync) or a better cpu model.


according to the qnap article, the ssd cache will be helpful for HDDs to achieve the benefit for increase transfer speeds over a 10gbe.
https://blog.qnap.com/10gbe-walkthrough-en/

Raid - I know everybody loves it. Given my current setup and understanding that Raid is not backup, is there something I am missing out by not choosing any Raid for HDDs
since it's 2x hdds your option is a raid1. meaning only one of the drives will have usable space. the other become parity.
RAID 1 facilitates data protection for those environments where outright data redundancy, performance and availability are crucial,and cost per usable gigabyte of capacity is a secondary consideration as RAID 1 usable capacity is only half of available disk drives in RAID set.(which should be assumed, they die often)
3. Data Protection: As we alluded to earlier, all RAID systems beyond RAID 0 offer some form of data protection. Conversely, the lack of built-in data protection makes JBOD a risky storage proposition for mission-critical systems as the potential for data loss is much higher when compared to RAID. Questionable reliability is one of the biggest reasons companies are increasingly moving away from JBOD.

With everything it lacks, I see JBOD being useful in one scenario and one scenario only: when you need a cheap and relatively easy way to incorporate generous storage capacity, but disk failure is something you can live with – better yet, something you’ve planned for. Just in case. Until JBOD gets dramatic improvements on manageability and redundancy, it will continue to be the poor man’s RAID.

JBOD and RAID both have their merits as high-capacity storage options. But even with its long history of proven reliability, not even RAID is sufficient enough to replace a good backup plan. Instead of alternatives, both should be viewed as complementary cogs in a comprehensive business continuity strategy.
https://blog.storagecraft.com/jbod-vs-r ... e-systems/


How RAID 1 compares to other RAID levels
RAID 1 requires a minimum of two physical drives, as data is written simultaneously to two places. The drives are essentially mirror images of each other, so if one drive fails, the other one can take over and provide access to the data that’s stored on that drive. Mirroring drives is good for very fast read operations, but it's slower when writing to the drives since the data needs to be written to two locations.

While RAID 1 drive mirroring provides comprehensive data protection that can be a lifesaver in the event of disaster that disables the primary drive, that level of data protection comes at a cost of requiring 100% drive capacity overhead. That means if you use drive mirroring RAID 1 on an array you have to double the amount of installed drive capacity—half to accommodate active storage and half for the mirrored copy. Because that amount of overhead capacity can be very expensive, very few enterprise-class storage systems use RAID 1, opting for more space-conserving RAID 5 or RAID 6 levels.

RAID 1 and RAID 10 are both mirroring technologies that use half of their available drives for data, but the main difference between them is the number of available drives. While RAID 1 uses two drives, RAID 10 involves at least four drives and combines the mirroring of RAID 1 with the striping of RAID 0.

RAID 1 vs. RAID 5 comes down to what's more important in terms of performance and cost. A RAID 1 drive pair can handle twice the amount of reads of a standalone disk drive. The main drawback of RAID 1 is that for the required disk space, the amount of capacity will double (e.g., to store 100 TB of data requires 200 TB of capacity). With RAID 5, if a user buys five disks, four-fifths of the capacity is usable, so much less additional capacity is needed. However, RAID 5 and RAID 6 cannot recover as quickly as a RAID 1 implementation. While RAID 1 may be able to offer a near instantaneous recovery time objective (RTO), RAID 5 and RAID 6 need time—considerable time for large capacities—to rebuild the data across their arrays.
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by dolbyman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:32 pm

I'd also say ..a regular 4 disk model ..with 4 disks in raid5 (for space and one disk redundancy)

none of your applications need the high iops of solid state memory

as the nas can be placed wherever there is network access,noise shouldn't be an issue

WTree
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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by WTree » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:16 pm

Thank you for your comments and inputs.

I would like to keep this thread for way forward with HS-453DX and what is the best way I can set it up for this particular use case.

I am reading else where that M.2 storage can be used only for SSD provisioning. Is this true?

Does QNAP need to set a Disk a primary disk ? And in such a case if the primary disk fails, then the NAS can not be accessed any more? I am thinking more of using M.2 as primary disk but it is a bit confusing here me. Would appreciate some clarity around the primary disk and M.2 storage

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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by dolbyman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:21 pm

unclear what you mean by ssd provisioning

the nas needs a system volume for apps and neccessary base folders ..it will still boot without that volume missing (with all apps lost)

with only two spinning disks you "painted yourself into a corner" as your bulk storage will have to be in two sepperate volumes (as raid0,spanning jbod or pooled single drives will lose all data on single drive failure)

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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:40 pm

I think you are misunderstanding what it is.

Here is a quick intro for what it does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q15wN8JC2L4

but basically ssd over provisioning just means setting aside a % of space usually something like 10-20% (setting it higher than that is usually too costly in terms of sacrificing usable storage space) to help extend your SSD life (interestingly, by default some manufacturers already did this). thats all overprovisioning is meant to achieve.

You still use the SSD as a storage space for whatever setup you are planning for it, whether for installing QTS direct on it, or a SSD cache acceleration, Qtier, or just regular storage.

Does QNAP need to set a Disk a primary disk ? And in such a case if the primary disk fails, then the NAS can not be accessed any more? I am thinking more of using M.2 as primary disk but it is a bit confusing here me. Would appreciate some clarity around the primary disk and M.2 storage
it works like this. for initial setup you go to the storage management and create either a static volume or pool with volumes under it.

The first volume you create will be designated cachedev1. This is where QTS will be installed. So if you want to install QTS on the SSDs then set that up first.

For example i created a single static volume raid1 2x M.2 SSD

Next i created a 4x4tb HDD raid5 pool/thick volume.

So as such, the SSD raid array is cachedev1, so QTS is installed there. and the hdd raid5 array created second, is designated cachedev2.
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

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dolbyman
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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by dolbyman » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:44 pm

wouldnt that be overprovisiononing?

and yes..that makes sense if you want to use your ssd's for cache or qtier(as it extends endurance).. not really for long term storage

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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by WTree » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:05 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:40 pm

it works like this. for initial setup you go to the storage management and create either a static volume or pool with volumes under it.

The first volume you create will be designated cachedev1. This is where QTS will be installed. So if you want to install QTS on the SSDs then set that up first.

For example i created a single static volume raid1 2x M.2 SSD

Next i created a 4x4tb HDD raid5 pool/thick volume.

So as such, the SSD raid array is cachedev1, so QTS is installed there. and the hdd raid5 array created second, is designated cachedev2.
Now I understand how the first disk works. By chance do you happen to know if I can put two M.2 SSD in HS-453DX and do raid1 (like the way you did)? Or these slots on HS-453DX can not be used for such usage? I do not have any spare M.2 to check it out so I would have to buy them to see if I can achieve this functionality. Any inputs on this would be great!

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Re: HS-453DX Storage Solution for a particular use case

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:19 am

2 x 3.5-inch/2.5-inch SATA 6Gb/s, 3Gb/s (HDD or SSD)
2 x M.2 2280 SATA 6Gb/s slots

https://www.qnap.com/en/product/hs-453dx/specs/hardware


yeah you can install 2 x m.2 SATA ssds and configure them in raid1. You can either create a single static volume to install qts onto them, or as cache acceleration.

If your intent is to have 2xhdds as your main storage (since you have way more storage for cheap compared to ssds), and you plan to use 10gbe. Then sounds to me that perhaps you should utilize those m.2 ssds are caching so you can achieve best transfer speeds over 10gbe?

Or at least that is based on what i read they recommended for 10gbe setups
https://blog.qnap.com/10gbe-walkthrough-en/


My tbs-453DX does not have support for hdds. so there is no point setting up ssd cache acceleration, because my storage is all ssds, so doesn't seem to be a point to that.



By the way you mentioned about using it for plex, but have you tried kodi before? i'm using QTS 4.4.0 and installed Kodi Leia.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=149616&p=721579#p721579


Then i installed the skin theme Aura (which has a styling similar to that of netflix) and also XEM scrapper which supports anidb meta info for my anime collection. There may be even more good addons to add, but for now i'm quite happy with what i added so far :D

I'm pointing my TBS-453DX to the TS-877 on the same LAN network, for media source for movies. Which is similar in function to how i use my himedia device.

Better yet, if you got the storage capacity, you can put your movie files onto your hdds in the HS-453DX then use kodi linking the media internally for a much more responsive experience :mrgreen:

Plex is also great (for transcoding). but give kodi a shot, you'll definitely like it.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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