New Specs for x77A

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MikeLagit
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by MikeLagit »

antik wrote:Although it's not a desktop solution (but rack NAS series), some news about new Ryzen (AMD Ryzen V1500B 4C8T 2.2GHz) will be available tomorrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D8c9aotmJg
And why are you posting YouTube videos that are private and nobody else can watch them?
Model: TVS-872XT 16GB
Model: TS-877-1700 16GB
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

Sushanth.reddy wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:19 am
Looks like you didn’t read the whole thread, QNAP is discontinuing all desktop models and they want only rack models on the market. I would suggest you to buy a rack at home for upcoming rack models 😂😊
discontinuing? but daniel on reddit said they plan a desktop model soon :'

*update

wait what. daniel updated/editted his reddit posts to now say they aren't doing desktop tower models for it :shock: i could have sworen not long ago he did say desktop tower models were coming soon. guess something changed :(
https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... s/g09pllz/


how much are racks? any cons? :'
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
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drdope
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by drdope »

The rack-mounted models are more expensive:
--> https://geizhals.de/?cat=hd19rack&v=l&h ... mmit+Ridge

Also rack-mounted devices are generally louder and take up a lot more space (as you need a rack to fit them).
Racks don't make much sense for private use or small businesses with only a few devices.

They excel in scenarios, where you need a lot of devices, crammed into a "small" area like this:
--> https://www.aggreko.com/de-de/case-stud ... ata-centre
TS-877 https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1446616
TS-h973AX https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1721479
TS-669l, 3GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, onsite-backup)
TS-453A, 4GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, offsite-backup)
https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1577757
6x 2TB USB3.0 HDDs in daily rotation (offline, offdevice, offsite-backups)
"roughly 80% of storage related costs are generated by backups"
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

drdope wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:21 pm ...
thx :(
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
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drdope
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by drdope »

The main problem with QNAP rackmounts is pricing though.

E.g. look at the QuTS hero systems:
--> https://geizhals.de/?cat=hd19rack&v=l&h ... 48_Matisse
This is essentially desktop-class hardware put into a rackmount chassis with a redundant PSU.

For about 4-6k€ you can also get a preconfigured entry level Lenovo SR655 (AMD Epyc up to 64 Cores/128Threads/up to 1GB RAM total/very versatile storage-configuration/redundant PSU and IPMI) with much better support options if needed.
--> https://geizhals.de/?cat=sys19rack&xf=1 ... 7E14199_20
--> https://lenovopress.com/lp1161-thinksystem-sr655-server

Just put an open source NAS distro like
--> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XigmaNAS or
--> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS
on one of this babies...

The desktop TS-x77 weren't cheap, but they were reasonably enough priced, that you wouldn't think about building a rig yourself.
The rackmount TS-x77 sadly arent...
:(
TS-877 https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1446616
TS-h973AX https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1721479
TS-669l, 3GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, onsite-backup)
TS-453A, 4GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, offsite-backup)
https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1577757
6x 2TB USB3.0 HDDs in daily rotation (offline, offdevice, offsite-backups)
"roughly 80% of storage related costs are generated by backups"
yttrium6
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by yttrium6 »

Hello everyone, I am a bit lost. Are all the tower models discontinued, or just the ryzen types? Thanks in advance.
-jp
P3R
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by P3R »

yttrium6 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:22 am Are all the tower models discontinued, or just the ryzen types?
Only Ryzen.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
yttrium6
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by yttrium6 »

Ok thanks! Sad in a way, but I have never been able to afford it. I'm just happy that there will still be other tower models to choose from.
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drdope
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by drdope »

Just for comparison:
-> https://geizhals.de/qnap-quts-hero-ts-h ... =l&hloc=de
about 6k€
(R7-3700X, 8C/16T; 128GB non-ECC; 2x 10GB SFP-Ethernet; 2x 300W redundant PSU)

-> https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1692105
build your own device @ comparable specs -> 1,7k€
(R7-3700X, 8C/16T; 128GB ECC; 2x10GBase-Ethernet; 2x 500W redundant PSU)

-> https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1692440
build your own device @ comparable price -> 5,6k€
(AMD Epyc 7452, 32C/64T; 256GB (reg, ECC); 4x 10GBase-Ethernet; 2x 920W redundant PSU)
TS-877 https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1446616
TS-h973AX https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1721479
TS-669l, 3GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, onsite-backup)
TS-453A, 4GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, offsite-backup)
https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1577757
6x 2TB USB3.0 HDDs in daily rotation (offline, offdevice, offsite-backups)
"roughly 80% of storage related costs are generated by backups"
casw1000
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by casw1000 »

I cannot sit back and read this without adding my money's worth. I recall discussing this way before Covid kicked in. I recall being told, changes will be coming. I wanted the 1277 or 1677 Ryzen, but specifically didn't want to pay for the 1st gen Ryzen's when the current gen was 3000 series. We held off, and now we are being told, no tower updates on the Ryzen architecture. Seriously? I used to have a rack, but got rid of it due to so much space, noise, power etc. I wanted a decent third qnap nas with good Ryzen. All I see now are over priced Xeon's with 'just 4 cores'. Sorry, but Qnap, Why are you so loyal to Intel when clearly AMD's product stack is not only very competitive on performance (if not better in some areas) but from a price perspective as well. The current Tower series that are available just doesn't justify enthusiasts or SME business to spend the money on older tech. Really sad about this move. I was looking forward to QuTS, but given where Qnap is heading, I think I will buy a NAS only for storage (meaning low spec) and just build a decent machine to host the apps on like Plex. I have had 3 qnap's so far, maybe the end of the road is nearer than I wanted.
casw1000
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by casw1000 »

Here's another idea, why not sell off the QuTS/operating system so that enthuisasts can build on custom hardware. I noted that vQTS is being removed, and that Qnap is pusing QTS to the expensive cloud hosting players. I dont want cloud hosted QTS, at least think about selling the QTS as a self build option. ?? Starting to feel that we are being pushed away, i guess much like Intel is learning, thats ok until the competition steps up. I really wish you would reconsider the Ryzen tower models at least give your customers the chance to choose, before looking else where. Unless I see any real changes, I guess I am done.
Bob Zelin
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by Bob Zelin »

Gee - how come Apple doesn't sell off macOS ? Because that's not the way it works. They want to make money. They want to deliver a working product, and not have
enthusiasts ruin their name by saying "I spend $200 for the QuTS operating system, and it's terrible, I can't get it to run on my AMD PC that I built for it". That's why.
The competition is not "stepping up". Taiwanese companies like QNAP, Synology and Netgear have destroyed all the other products, because of their low prices. But of course, for you, the price is not low enough.

I use AMD Ryzen QNAP's like the TS-1677XU-RP all the time for professional installations. The products are incredible.
Bob Zelin
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casw1000
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by casw1000 »

Bob, sorry but at what point did I question the price? For me its more about I dont want to spend money here in 2020, on tech thats been out for a number of years. It's a fair point you raise with the apple/OSX point, so that I'll accept. I am happy to spend £2K+ on a decent nas, I did have a rack mount TVS-971, which was the i5 model, but again, its quite old tech and I would rather have some updated Ryzen product. Also, as you pointed out, the TS-1677 (rack) is nice, but we cannot buy the tower versions even the old Gen 1 Ryzen's here in the UK. They have been out of stock for a long time. Anyway. I am not bashing what you have said, but I guess I, like many have to either shut up and move on or wait longer to see what desktop models they bring out.
Regards, Colin.
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by P3R »

Bob Zelin wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:05 pm I use AMD Ryzen QNAP's like the TS-1677XU-RP all the time for professional installations.
Yes rack mounted equipment is great for users that have a computer room or even a data centre. Most SMB and home users lack a dedicated computer room though.

The interesting question here is why Qnap have chosen to not follow up a successful product line of Ryzen-based tower/desktop NASes that there's obviously a demand for in the market...

My guess is that with the huge success for the Ryzens, AMD can't produce/deliver enough (possibly worsened by Covid19?) to meet the current demand and therefore they have to limit deliveries to less than ordered. With a limited amount of Ryzens arriving, Qnap choose to use them in the product lines with the highest margins (rack mounted models).
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
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drdope
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Re: New Specs for x77A

Post by drdope »

casw1000 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:35 pm Here's another idea, why not sell off the QuTS/operating system so that enthuisasts can build on custom hardware. I noted that vQTS is being removed, and that Qnap is pusing QTS to the expensive cloud hosting players. I dont want cloud hosted QTS, at least think about selling the QTS as a self build option. ?? Starting to feel that we are being pushed away, i guess much like Intel is learning, thats ok until the competition steps up. I really wish you would reconsider the Ryzen tower models at least give your customers the chance to choose, before looking else where. Unless I see any real changes, I guess I am done.
Its really hard to push NAS-OS into a very price-sensitive DIY market, as free OpenSource NAS-Distros are already out there (e.g. FreeNAS/TrueNAS, XigmaNAS, OpenMediaVault for naming a few).
With providing an OS, you're also inviting a lot of hardware-support related problems, as most users don't know what an HCL is.
Also you're cannibalizing your own business model -> why buy a QNAP-NAS with QTS, when you can buy QTS and run it "anywhere"?
P3R wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:20 amThe interesting question here is why Qnap have chosen to not follow up a successful product line of Ryzen-based tower/desktop NASes that there's obviously a demand for in the market...
My guess would be, that the Ryzen Desktop-NAS have taken out a huge chunk of sales out of the higher end intel ix/Xeon-NAS, while being cheaper/generating a lower margins.

The lower end TS-677 offered hell of a bang for the buck
--> https://geizhals.de/?phist=1632418&age=9999
considering that you can upgrade the CPU up to an R7-2700; RAM up to 64GB (probably 128GB --> https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 76677.html), add a PCIe 3.0 8x/NVMe Storage-Adapter and a PCIe 3.0 4x 10GB NIC (or second NVMe Storage-Adapter)
also two 2,'5' SSDs (available up to 8TB as of now) and another four 16TB HDDs or 8TB SSDs...

Thats probably more then most small/medium businesses will need for a foreseeable future (including running server- & client-vm's, if they are not handling tons of video or doing 3d-modeling).
--> https://translate.google.com/translate? ... &sandbox=1
TS-877 https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1446616
TS-h973AX https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1721479
TS-669l, 3GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, onsite-backup)
TS-453A, 4GB (2x 3TB WD30EFRX; Raid1; online-, offdevice-, offsite-backup)
https://geizhals.de/?cat=WL-1577757
6x 2TB USB3.0 HDDs in daily rotation (offline, offdevice, offsite-backups)
"roughly 80% of storage related costs are generated by backups"
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