TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

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Bob Zelin
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by Bob Zelin »

marsar wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:07 pm After a few weeks with my new TVS-h1288X all I can say that quality is barely acceptable IMO.
Since this is my first QNAP product I obviously can't tell if this is an abnormality or if all their products are like this.
Hi -
it's December 30th. I have been installing any TVS-h1288X and TVS-h1688X I can find from Amazon, B&H, QnapWorks, and Span. 100% of my clients have been
more than happy with it's performance (professional video editing). Consistant playback from both Mac and Win 10 PC over 10G around 1000 MB/sec without issue.
QuTS is on 2 RAID 1 SSD's, and 8 or 12 drives are in single thin provisioned volume, which builds in less than 60 seconds. I have installed PostgreSQL in addition
to the standard build. I have configured QVPN for remote access using both Tunnelblick and OpenVPN. NO ISSUES AT ALL. No one is complaining.

However, I am complaining on 12/30/2020. Nothing is in stock anywhere, and I am waiting for delivery of more systems from Taiwan.

Bob Zelin
Last edited by OneCD on Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed quoting syntax
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by QNAPDanielFL »

marsar wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:07 pm
Attributing that to my HGST Ultrastar HDDs, instead of realizing it was probably the fact the system was out of RAM,


If you have terrible performance because you are out of RAM it is likely because you used deduplication.
And please keep in mind that if you used that feature in the past, just turning it off won't reclaim the RAM deduplication has already taken. Only deleting the folder that had deduplication will reclaim the RAM that the deduplication feature had taken.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marsar »

OneCD wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:48 am QNAP are unable to support every combination of hardware, and so will look for the first piece of unsupported hardware installed in a NAS and blame it for the problems present. This is not uncommon in tech-support.
Agreed, not uncommon, but still zero f's seem to have been given.
The tech support person was kind and professional, nothing to complain there.
But the provided information and the support process was just sad and sure didn't feel like much effort was made to help.
Initially I was, rightfully, asked to check if the RAM was faulty, and given a link to a company-website, where an outdated tutorial described how to use Memtest.
Funnily enough the indicated Memtest version didn't work on the NAS, or my Workstation for that matter, as it was apparently outdated and didn't support UEFI.
After solving this issue and providing test results on my own (using another, updated Memtest version), the only response I got was essentially one sentence, practically unrelated and devoid of any interest in solving the issue.
The "It ain't the NAS, try with the drives" part almost made me laugh. The QNAP software is so unbelievably bug ridden that I sure would expect it to be the cause of most RAM related issues, but let's blame something quite unrelated instead. They didn't even provide some related log entries that might explain why they blame the drives, probably because there were none to be found. I sure can live with the fact that they don't support HGST drives, it's the very low effort I didn't like.
OneCD wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:48 am Which is quite a cheap "server". A real server costs many times that. QNAP are budget NAS (even the expensive ones). Apples-and-oranges.
I disagree, it's more than a valid comparison, as everything is defined by what it does and/or is supposed to be created for.
This NAS uses server-grade hardware, has a price double that of these "real" Fujitsu servers I was admin for at my previous company and QNAP itself advertises this as a server-grade product.
QNAP wrote: ... helping your business achieve reliable service-level agreement performance, from creative workflows to file server, virtualization server, ...
Still, the performance of the web front-end doesn't even compare to a 150€ phone when browsing folders, just ridiculous.
OneCD wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:48 am Was the NAS doing anything else at the time? Media indexing? Transcoding? RAID scrubbing? etc...
No, nothing.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by OneCD »

marsar wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm
OneCD wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:48 am Which is quite a cheap "server". A real server costs many times that. QNAP are budget NAS (even the expensive ones). Apples-and-oranges.
I disagree, it's more than a valid comparison, as everything is defined by what it does and/or is supposed to be created for.
This NAS uses server-grade hardware, has a price double that of these "real" Fujitsu servers
I think we have different ideas of a "real" server. I'm talking about adding a one and 2 zeros to the price of your little Toys'R'Us box. Something like yours is OK for grade-school kids to mess about-with and learn IT basics, but they're not used for any serious work. :roll:

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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marsar »

QNAPDanielFL wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:16 am If you have terrible performance because you are out of RAM it is likely because you used deduplication.
And please keep in mind that if you used that feature in the past, just turning it off won't reclaim the RAM deduplication has already taken. Only deleting the folder that had deduplication will reclaim the RAM that the deduplication feature had taken.
Yes, thank you. The out-of-memory event happened only once, why, I can't tell.
I got a notification about this, then performance, understandably, got terrible.
When I checked, the system strangely reported memory usage to be around 60%, which isn't an out-of-memory situation in my book.
After a reboot this never happened again, performance normal and memory usage still consistently around 60%.

Do you know if deduplication is applied while data is begin transferred or is this a background process?
If this is a background process, it might explain why the issue arose during the night, when the NAS was idle, after transferring large amounts of data.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marsar »

OneCD wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:29 pm I think we have different ideas of a "real" server. I'm talking about adding a one and 2 zeros to the price of your little Toys'R'Us box. Something like yours is OK for grade-school kids to mess about-with and learn IT basics, but they're not used for any serious work. :roll:
Well luckily enough we have elitist trolls like you that define what "serious" work means :DD
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by OneCD »

marsar wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:48 pm Well luckily enough we have elitist trolls like you that define what "serious" work means :DD
... and with a bit over 6 hours to-go, the odds are that's the last time I'll be called a troll in 2020.

Happy new year! :lol:

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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by marsar »

OneCD wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:50 pm
marsar wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:48 pm Well luckily enough we have elitist trolls like you that define what "serious" work means :DD
... and with a bit over 6 hours to-go, the odds are that's the last time I'll be called a troll in 2020.

Happy new year! :lol:
Wish you a nice one too! I still have to wait 13 hours though... :DD
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by QNAPDanielFL »

marsar wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:46 pm
Do you know if deduplication is applied while data is begin transferred or is this a background process?
If this is a background process, it might explain why the issue arose during the night, when the NAS was idle, after transferring large amounts of data.
What I know of deduplication is that for all deduplicated data, there should be metadata stored in the RAM. Metadata that can be used to Un-deduplicate, so that you don't need to wait to retrieve the metadata from the drives whenever you want to read a deduplicated file. So I would expect this metadata to always take RAM space at all times. I don't know why the RAM usage increased during the Night.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by SR22pilot »

Does anyone know the part number for the short bracket required to move the 10GbE card from the X8 to one of the X4 PCI slots?
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by SR22pilot »

matthewoliver wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:09 pm

You can actually switch the 10GBbe card to one of the PCIe x4 ports with a low-profile bracket (but agreed, it should've been this way out of the box)
Do you know the part number for the bracket? It needs to have matching cutouts.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by QNAPDanielFL »

I don't know the part number for the bracket at this time. I have been told that the bracket should be released in a few weeks.

"You can actually switch the 10GBbe card to one of the PCIe x4 ports with a low-profile bracket (but agreed, it should've been this way out of the box)"

The reason why the 10GbE card is preinstalled in the Gen3X8 slot instead of the Gen3X4 slot is that only the 2 Gen3X4 slots can take a thunderbolt card. So we left them open to make it easy to add up to 2 Thunderbolt cards.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by matthewoliver »

QNAPDanielFL wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 am I don't know the part number for the bracket at this time. I have been told that the bracket should be released in a few weeks.

"You can actually switch the 10GBbe card to one of the PCIe x4 ports with a low-profile bracket (but agreed, it should've been this way out of the box)"

The reason why the 10GbE card is preinstalled in the Gen3X8 slot instead of the Gen3X4 slot is that only the 2 Gen3X4 slots can take a thunderbolt card. So we left them open to make it easy to add up to 2 Thunderbolt cards.
Ok, but it would've been nice to have the lp bracket included with the nas
Current:
TVS-h1288X
Intel Xeon W-1250 w/ 64GB Ram
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4x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by SR22pilot »

QNAPDanielFL wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:00 am What I know of deduplication is that for all deduplicated data, there should be metadata stored in the RAM. Metadata that can be used to Un-deduplicate, so that you don't need to wait to retrieve the metadata from the drives whenever you want to read a deduplicated file. So I would expect this metadata to always take RAM space at all times. I don't know why the RAM usage increased during the Night.
This can't be accurate. RAM gets erased if the machine is powered off or loses power. There is a directory entry that says what block a file starts at. All that happens with deduplication is that two different directories reference the same starting block. That information is saved with other data on the nonvolatile storage media.
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Re: TVS-h1288x / TVS-h1688x

Post by Bob Zelin »

I like answering all questions relating to 10G, 40G and video editing - and now especially with the new QuTS products, that I am installing all the time - but BOY, am I happy I did not get involved with this crazy thread.
When you purchase a QNAP 10G card, they give you ALL the brackets for every model. One bracket comes installed, and there are two more available that you can adapt. IF you lose these brackets, well - you are screwed. If you buy it used from someone, well - you are screwed. If you throw out your stuff - and then try to move it to a different model (I just moved a QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 card from a TVS-EC1680U to a QNAP TS-1677XU-RP) - well - I kept those brackets, because I knew that the client would never know where he put that stuff (in a safe place). And as you (the readers of this thread) are saying - "that is terrible" - I see posts on all the Netgear, and Ubiquiti UniFi and Synology Forums, about "where can I get the rack mounting brackets - where can I get those little screws", etc.

There is NO reason for QNAP or anyone else to include the LP brackets with the NAS for countless cards. They COME with the cards, and if the card does not come with the brackets, then send the card back to the dealer, and say "this is not a new product -this is a re-pack". I have purchased plenty of things (from places like B&H Photo) that I can see are repacks - with no cable ties on the power cords, the plastic bags removed, and loose pieces floating around inside the box. I know that this was a "return" and the dealer tried to resell it.

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