Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

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Mugen
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Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

I understand that QTS formatted HDD are not compatible to QuTS vice versa. But I am in need to buy new Qnap NAS so I can restore my QTS data but here I’d be interested in converting to QuTS soon after if I can.

So my question is can I buy QuTS labeled system and set it up as QTS somehow. Then insert my existing QTS formatted HDDs and restore that way.

When I compare NAS models I see labeling on QUTS systems as QTS check, QUTS Hero no check type depiction so I surmise this is possible but want to confirm before buying.

Thank you
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

huh??

well quts hero models CAN install qts (but why though?)

so you buy a quts hero model.... but install qts (not quts hero.....)

then do a migration from old to new

*check if it's possible first
https://www.qnap.com/en/nas-migration/


once you are migrated... now what? you want to stay stuck on qts? i feel that is a waste.


sounds like you did a nas migration because you have no backup plan? you should
https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... _a_backup/


Cause then you wouldn't have to worry about this. just use quts hero, install the drives and install from scratch. Then recover your data from your backup.

backup isn't only just for that, but also there is a real problem where you may end up losing your data if you do not have a backup to save you in those events and others. it's not a if, but a when :S
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

Thanks for the reply.

Yup I definitely learned lesson here. Though most important data are cloud backed up, I still wish to recover others if I could. Basically, I wanted to upgrade to Rackmountable version for awhile, but didn't have a convincing reason. But now I do...

So my plan is
1. Buy QuTS model, restore all data from broken QTS NAS
2. Copy the (necessary data) probably only couple Terabytes worth to another device
3. Reformat to QuTS
4. Copy the databack to QuTS
5. Create backup *Hope I can fix the original NAS one point
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

Mugen wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 9:39 pm Thanks for the reply.

Yup I definitely learned lesson here. Though most important data are cloud backed up, I still wish to recover others if I could. Basically, I wanted to upgrade to Rackmountable version for awhile, but didn't have a convincing reason. But now I do...

So my plan is
1. Buy QuTS model, restore all data from broken QTS NAS
2. Copy the (necessary data) probably only couple Terabytes worth to another device
3. Reformat to QuTS
4. Copy the databack to QuTS
5. Create backup *Hope I can fix the original NAS one point
ok i see now. yes i use to be in that spot you are so i can emphatize.

try and setup a backup plan asap.

how much data are you planning on storing though? your backup plan would be based around that.

if it's just a few tbs, nothing much, you could just get either a western digital elements or easystore external USB storage (with the capacity you require) for your backup (seagate also has an usb external backup), get whichever is cheapest among those. And yes you can still continue using the cloudbackup.

The local backup (e.g. external usb) would be your go to backup due to the faster speeds. Whereas the cloud backup would only be used for other reasons (like your external usb backup had issues, or you are offsite but need your backup now, or to use the cloud backup versioning if they support that sort of capability)

other local backup alternatives are e.g. Another QNAP NAS, or something like a TL or TR expansion box (i use a TL-D400S, you can see my review of it in my forum signature link), or for people requiring 50tb+ worth of backup they resort to using LTO tapes (initial setup is expensive, but the tapes themselves become affordable making the price for backing up more value if you require crazy amounts of storage backup).

or actually, you can use your old QNAP NAS as your backup device. This is what i did. Or do you have some sort of hardware or software issue with your older QNAP nas model? what's wrong with it :'
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

Awesome. Thank you for the very detailed suggestions and also written guides.

I do have old 1-2, may be 3 TB Western Digital sitting somewhere, just never thought I needed to use anymore since I got NAS...

My NAS stopped turning on out of the blue after my whole network rewiring (nothing I did to NAS other than proper shut down, unplug power and put into Network shelf). It is exactly 2 years old as of tomorrow. I have sent an support ticket today so we will see. I found similar issue with 872-XT on this forum (mine is 472-XT).

As I recall, I was using probably 3-5 TB on original NAS but out of those, ones I want to recover (if possible) are probably only 1-2 TB. For a while I don't anticipate ever going over 10 TB (in reality probably even 5TB total is probably still sufficient for real worthy data if I keep deleting old unneeded ones).

I actually did not know anything about TL product line. This is very interesting. My primary hope is, I get new NAS (after getting wife approving factor taken care of), I also get my 472-XT fixed and use as back up. But if that does not work, I am now intrigued by TL-D400S.

What happens in situation like mine happens with it? TL-D400S lose access to QNAP QTS or QuTS NAS unit (due to NAS failure), will I have the access to TL-D400S content independently before getting new or fixed NAS via Windows/Linux? OR Is it just management interface and I still have to have proper NAS to access the data on TL-D400S unit?

Again, thank you for the great advice!
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

i don't think you need something like a TL or TR yet.

because your data seems to be 3-5tb ? honestly an external usb storage is enuff to back that up.

like this (they have different capacity sizes, get the one relevant for you to make a 1:1 backup)

Seagate 4TB Expansion portable hard drive review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT5aV2Oe2os

Western Digital WD Elements review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH1zhGt023E



Mike explains how to backup to external usb storage

QNAP Backup and Restore - HBS 3 to Protect Your Data
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmMRJ3gnRoo


For myself i am using a 4x 4tb hdd raid5, so the TL works for me because i store much more. and i require speedier backup than the standard 1gbe (and i don't have networking switches that use anything other than the standard 1gbe, so the TR was perfect for that)
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

Thank you for yet another detail reply.

It looks like QNAP will RMA my 472-XT unit. So I think I will use that as my backup. But with this incidence, I found my WD Book to be 3TB size and I got two of those sitting. So I might use that perhaps as additional backup.

You have been very helpful and I certainly learned new things here, so I would say overall a good experience. :)
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

Mugen wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 4:42 am Thank you for yet another detail reply.

It looks like QNAP will RMA my 472-XT unit. So I think I will use that as my backup. But with this incidence, I found my WD Book to be 3TB size and I got two of those sitting. So I might use that perhaps as additional backup.

You have been very helpful and I certainly learned new things here, so I would say overall a good experience. :)
you're welcome. i'm just a normal user like yourself. i just chime in from time to time to help the community every now and then for a couple of years now as a hobby as a nas enthusiast :wink: i know much more than the usual newbies that come along, but i wouldn't say i'm an expert either :( but there are experts lurking around who can swoop in if i got something wrong 8)


hm... so are you saying you will have 2 qnap nases? then if that's the case, your old qnap nas can be used as the backup. all you need is the drives to have the capacity for a 1:1 backup :)

at the datahoarder community there is "shucking" for which they try to purchase hard drives for the cheapest hdd prices usually for the purposes for use as a backup. I personally have not done this myself (i usually just buy the hdds normally for warranty purposes and i know what i am getting), but you can do your own research if you are interested
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/

How to Shuck a 12 TB Western Digital Elements External Hard Drive in About 2 Minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xekv2Y2mmfQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W3-uOl4ruc
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Tue May 25, 2021 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:45 am
Mugen wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 4:42 am Thank you for yet another detail reply.

It looks like QNAP will RMA my 472-XT unit. So I think I will use that as my backup. But with this incidence, I found my WD Book to be 3TB size and I got two of those sitting. So I might use that perhaps as additional backup.

You have been very helpful and I certainly learned new things here, so I would say overall a good experience. :)
i know much more than the usual newbies that come along, but i wouldn't say i'm an expert either :( but there are experts lurking around who can swoop in if i got something wrong 8)
When it comes to techs, community member support like yourself is the key. Honestly I haven’t seen any tech service to be ever that helpful from any product. So having a strong helpful community is crucial. NAS is going to be my next focus learning hobby. 😀
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

this is the official channel for tech support
https://service.qnap.com/en


some people don't realize but they also have a technical support hotline which you call the one closest to you (i only used this for emergencies only that require fast response. otherwise i don't bother)
https://www.qnap.com/en/contact-us/


unofficially there is also a reddit channel, sometimes you can find info more easily there. but it's best to check between here and on the reddit channel
https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap


there's also an unofficial discord channel created by the regular users :)

Mugen wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:51 am When it comes to techs, community member support like yourself is the key. Honestly I haven’t seen any tech service to be ever that helpful from any product. So having a strong helpful community is crucial. NAS is going to be my next focus learning hobby. 😀
ty :ashamed:

then you should probly check out the projects i'm working on :} been having fun testing new things out.
viewtopic.php?f=191&t=161170


i want to try out a quts hero to a truenas to see how that works (but from daniel from qnap's explanation, if both use the same compression and deduplication feature enabled, then you can sync from 1 to the other the same amount of data, it should fit), but i don't have a quts hero model yet sadly :(
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:54 am then you should probly check out the projects i'm working on :} been having fun testing new things out.
viewtopic.php?f=191&t=161170

i want to try out a quts hero to a truenas to see how that works (but from daniel from qnap's explanation, if both use the same compression and deduplication feature enabled, then you can sync from 1 to the other the same amount of data, it should fit), but i don't have a quts hero model yet sadly :(
Interesting. Yeah conceptually both are ZFS so it makes sense. I need to first learn, the true value of ZFS. But I won't be surprised in a couple months, I start playing with my 472-XT and TrueNAS.

Thanks for the handy links. I use Reddits but certainly did not know there is emergency call option. As you said, I won't likely be utilizing but just knowing its out there is always nice.
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

not sure if your 472-xt has quts hero, i did not check. but if not you can try install truenas on it (i never tested this model), but i laid out the steps for how to make this happen. i think it's safe as long as you don't mess with the eusb dom in the qnap. i just disable it in bios and change the boot order.

but if this is too complicated, then you best not do that then.

i already figured out how to get rsync to work between the qnap qts and truenas, so you can then do a backup and restore and it works :D

i tested on a ts-x53a series, but this model is already on the latest qts (which uses ext4 linux). so unless your nas does not have zfs and you want it, or your nas at one point is eol and not maintained, then no urgency to convert it into a truenas. but it's nice to know that you will have a backup plan in case your qts goes eol at some point (in many many years from now).
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

I see. 472xt has up to date QTS version but not QuTS compatible and they just released new version with updated CPU.

My new NAS will be QuTS compatible. So I was thinking ZFS to ZFS back up is more efficient but this is probably geek satisfaction factor than anything else at that point.

My previous tech focus was networking so I eventually got to 10G network speed and beyond gigabit internet speed ffrom gigabit ISP but honestly I know it was totally self satisfaction to see the big numbers on iPerf and internet speed test. None of my family member appreciated/noticed any daily impact. 😅

I need to decide what RAIDs to use. Which NAS SSD to buy for new NAS as it does not support NVME and those are only SSD NAS drive I had for 472-XT.
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Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

Mugen wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:40 am I see. 472xt has up to date QTS but not QuTS compatible. But my new NAS will be. So I was thinking ZFS to ZFS back up is more efficient but it may indeed be more of geek satisfaction than anything else at that point. My previous tech focus was network work and I got to 10G networks speed but honestly I know it was totally self satisfaction to see the big numbers on iPerf and internet speed test. None of my family member appreciated/noticed any daily impact. 😅
this is what i was trying to say.

so if you enable deduplication and compression on your quts hero nas, and you also have the same set on the truenas zfs, then if you do a backup, it will then fit. at least this was what daniel from qnap said when i asked how would zfs worked in this regards (although he was referencing 2 qnap nas running quts hero).



10gbe makes a whole difference. just imagine doing backups and restores from 1 device to another when comparing 1gbe to 10gbe. there is a huge difference in how long that will takes, especially if we are talking about terabytes of data.

sadly i only have 1gbe switches :{ i do have a 2.5gbe ts-253d qnap nas. and a 10gbe tbs-453dx portable nas. that's my only non 1gbe gear, but even then, i would need

- ethernet port adapter for desktop pc
- switch with the new ethernet ports (i also require poe and managed switch since i use those features)
- cat 6 ethernet cables (i already use these but for those still using cat5 i need to replace those)
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
Mugen
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Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:33 am

Re: Can QuTS Hero system run QTS?

Post by Mugen »

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:22 am
10gbe makes a whole difference. just imagine doing backups and restores from 1 device to another when comparing 1gbe to 10gbe. there is a huge difference in how long that will takes, especially if we are talking about terabytes of data.

sadly i only have 1gbe switches :{ i do have a 2.5gbe ts-253d qnap nas. and a 10gbe tbs-453dx portable nas. that's my only non 1gbe gear, but even then, i would need

- ethernet port adapter for desktop pc
- switch with the new ethernet ports (i also require poe and managed switch since i use those features)
- cat 6 ethernet cables (i already use these but for those still using cat5 i need to replace those)

I don't doubt it has its place, but in reality 10Gbps = 1.25 GB/s data transfer rate. SATA3 SSD can only get ~500 MB/s. So we will need NVMe and that's on the both end (sender and receiver). One can think Memory can compensate that but max memory in state of art NAS are probably 128GB cap, and most are probably 32-64 GB (after upgrading). For that amount of data, I think 10 seconds vs. 25 seconds data transfer probably wouldn't make much difference.

In my case, I put in NVMe for this exact reason on my 472XT but my source aren't NVMe capable. So despite I got to Cat 6, 10G Aggregation switch, 10G TB3 to Ethernet adapter, 10G Mac mini, and 10G ports on NAS, I am still falling short for true 10G practical experience. It is a long pathway; therefore, it is enough to be my hobby. :)
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