Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

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Geoff_Lock
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Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by Geoff_Lock »

Hi folks,

A newbie here with QNAP, so I beg your indulgence.

I have an old 4-Bay QNAP TS-451A.. current firmware 5.0.0.1808

I have 3 volumes configured.

Volume 1 - Daily backups and Apps (corrupted and set to read-only)

Volume 2 - Daily user data backed up on Vol 1

Volume 3 - Old old user data

I am able to login via a browser.

I am trying to backup the old old user data (Vol 3) to an external USB drive to make some space and to try and fix Vol 1.

Old old user data (Vol 3) is only about 3TB.

Unfortunately, a direct copy (i.e. drag and drop) to the external USB drive is taking waaaaay too long.

Depending on what is going on, QNAP tells me that it may take up to 2042 (yes, that's 21 years from now) to completely copy 3TB!!!

I am NOT able to the QNAP HS3 backup utility as that is not working for some reason (maybe cos it's installed on the volume which is corrupted)

I am NOT able to reinstall HS3 - Vol 1 is corrupted and set to read-only

I am NOT able to connect across the network to a shared folder on Vol 3 despite making a new god-like user with access to everything. (The premise here is that I was hoping to cheat by using a backup utility of my choice to backup the 3TB across the network)

I was thinking of migrating (?) the Apps from Vol 1 to Vol 2 (Daily user data) but I wanna avoid that cos I was afraid I might corrupt Vol 2.

I was running out of ideas until I had the most brilliant one of all - turn to the collective knowledge of the QNAP community here :)

So my questions are :-

Is there a faster way to get that 3TB off Vol 3 onto an external USB drive?

Is there a way to install a piece of software, eg tar or cpio, anywhere I like on the QNAP, say on Vol 2, and run that software to back up onto the external USB?

Thanking you for your kindness in reading this far and looking forward to any replies. I will check this board again in 6 hrs.
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dolbyman
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by dolbyman »

That seems extremely slow...how ia the LAN performance of your NAS? if it also slow then your volume issue might have an influence on oher parts of the NAS too. (additionally check the USB disk for speed issues)

Normally a TB should only take a day max to backup
Geoff_Lock
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by Geoff_Lock »

dolbyman wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:28 pm That seems extremely slow...how ia the LAN performance of your NAS? if it also slow then your volume issue might have an influence on oher parts of the NAS too. (additionally check the USB disk for speed issues)

Normally a TB should only take a day max to backup
The overall LAN performance seems fine..

The NICs are set at 1Gbit

BTW, how can I check the USB drive for speed issues?

Thks for responding :)
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dolbyman
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by dolbyman »

Maybe offload your data via network then

USB drive could be connected to a different machine windows/mac for some speedtests
Geoff_Lock
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by Geoff_Lock »

dolbyman wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:11 pm Maybe offload your data via network then

USB drive could be connected to a different machine windows/mac for some speedtests
Unfortunately, I cannot see Vol 3 which contains the data I want...

I dunno why I cannot see Vol 3 despite me creating a god-like user on the QNAP and attempting to connect from Windoze using that username :(

Thks for the suggestion though.
Q-nap
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by Q-nap »

Did anyone get any progress on this.

I'm migrating across between systems but also need to convert the drives to different raids so I am looking at backing everything up.

I'm just on the last few hundred Gb and I've noticed that the drives are getting slower and slower.

Does anyone know how to wind up the elastic band on my QNAP. I'm getting 22Kbs on the USB port for a USB 3.0 drive. Something is clearly wrong. I'm using FileStation and just doing a copy. Been working great up to now and I'm now in the situation that a drive plugged directly into the NAS is running slower than a drive plugged into a Laptop on the same network using WiFi plugged into the same drive.

That just isn't right.
napper1237
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by napper1237 »

Hi

So we may gather some momentum here...I am in a very similar position and have some info for you.
i have an old TS451 with approximately 6TB I'd like to backup before doing some major maintenance.
i already had an Icy Box RD3640SU3 4 bay RAID caddy, USB 3. Thought this would be a cinch.
Put four spare 4TB drives in, formatted etc
Plugged to front port USB3 but speeds were as yours, atrociously slow.
Read the boards, heard similar issues, opened a support ticket with QNAP:
- initial response was that QNAP device and external hardware configs are all quite unique so the UPNP drivers for the USB3 wouldn't always support the combination being used! (i baulked, they didn't care)
- sent me a compatibility list - now this is a read in itself.
There's an official checker here - https://www.qnap.com/en-uk/compatibilit ... del=ts-451 pick your model etc
- for the 451 using QNAP expansion boxes that's slim pickings but so be it
- Looking through their external drive compatibility list is not much better - most devices are no longer in production or are too small to cater for this size transfer
- there's also an unofficial community wiki showing non-QNAP brand enclosures and results here: https://wiki.qnap.com/wiki/Compatible/I ... Enclosures

In summary - QNAP are terrible at supporting non-QNAP USB 3 devices.
Your main option with be a QNAP expansion enclosure.
Sorry. It's pretty terrible.
borut
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by borut »

Can someone please confirm that that is still the case?

My Example: I have a new TS-873A (with 8 old 2.5" 1TB WD Red WD10JFCX in a RAID6) and tried to copy from it via front USB (USB 3.2 Gen 2) to an external ICY BOX (IB-3804-C31) equipped with a Type-C USB 3.1 Gen 2. There is just one HDD in the box: A 3.5" 4TB WD Red Plus ‎WD40EFZX, capable of about 140MB/s write (as measured from the Windows 10 power shell in a direct USB connection). Prior to the copy job, the external HDD was formatted in NTFS by TS-873A.

Well, after about 20+ hours only some 0.7TB were copied. Then I reformatted the external drive into EXT3. Up to now it has already copied 1 TB in less then 3 hours, which is kind of realistic and to be expected for the file mix being copied.

So, my question is: Is Qnap really still using such incapable NTFS drivers for external storage connected via powerful USBs? In the year 2022!? Can this be?
RobbieWilkes
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by RobbieWilkes »

borut wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:22 pm Can someone please confirm that that is still the case?

My Example: I have a new TS-873A (with 8 old 2.5" 1TB WD Red WD10JFCX in a RAID6) and tried to copy from it via front USB (USB 3.2 Gen 2) to an external ICY BOX (IB-3804-C31) equipped with a Type-C USB 3.1 Gen 2. There is just one HDD in the box: A 3.5" 4TB WD Red Plus ‎WD40EFZX, capable of about 140MB/s write (as measured from the Windows 10 power shell in a direct USB connection). Prior to the copy job, the external HDD was formatted in NTFS by TS-873A.

Well, after about 20+ hours only some 0.7TB were copied. Then I reformatted the external drive into EXT3. Up to now it has already copied 1 TB in less then 3 hours, which is kind of realistic and to be expected for the file mix being copied.

So, my question is: Is Qnap really still using such incapable NTFS drivers for external storage connected via powerful USBs? In the year 2022!? Can this be?
Well, here in the future, stardate 01032023, I'm responding to your question from November of 2022, and it appears that, yes, QNAP is apparently still using ridiculously inadequate NTFS drivers for external storage. I finally get my TS-451 back up and running (maybe), but it's taking FORFREAKINEVER to just restore files via a FAST USB 3 drive. :roll: :banghead:
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ThatQGuy
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by ThatQGuy »

I thought stardates were in the form of YYYYMMDD.

Anyway.. So does that mean upgrading the NFTS driver will make external NTFS file transfers go at the speed they're supposed to? Has anyone tried updating the driver?

I'm moving about 9TB to an external NTFS drive and it's estimating it will take 13... DAYS!. WTF, man..
TVS h-674, 32GB, i5 - QuTS Hero (latest)
fluxx_comp
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by fluxx_comp »

Just stumbled upon this thread, and Yes, 13 DAYS for 4TB using an USB3.1 device (which is NTFS formatted), that is waay slower than the theoretical 1Gbps on the LAN...
I may format the USB drive on the QNAP 453A (running the latest SW!) and test again.

OK, it gets more scary and weird... (TLDR: Formatted the 10TB MyBook USB drive to EXT4 using QNAP, copy speed estimation bounced around up to 13 days but the actual copy of 58GB, 8500+ photos, was done after 1:20h)
So far, so bad.

I did another test to compare to the LAN speed (one hop, 1GB link via a unify box to a win10 laptop), copying 10GB, 3000 pictures takes less than 5 min.
Tried to continue backing up to the USB drive, figure I run it over night, I see the following:
1) second occurrence of
"Warning 2023-12-14 18:44:58 --- --- localhost --- Hardware Status I/O Ports [Hardware Status] "Host: 3.5" SATA HDD 1": Read I/O error, "ILLEGAL REQUEST ", sense_key=0x5, asc=0x21, ascq=0x4, CDB=88 00 00 00 00 00 46 eb e2 d8 00 00 01 28 00 00 ..
2) in the middle of copying, the NAS device performs SYSTEM BOOT :-0
3) the NAS is stuck in "System booting", does not come back up (looked in this forum, found the hint of it may dislike the USB device- pulled off the MyBook and it started)

Here is some background story:
I have this box forever, bought it new with WD red plus 4x3TB in it. used it for Plex, media storage mostly and had no complaints. Always kept the SW up to date. Now, after I moved I wanted to use the NVR and attach cameras and rekindle my Plex server usage.
Hence I needed more storage space and had the great idea to shuck some Costco Seagate drives (the 14TB ones, when they were only 150 bucks). Turns out those are the Seagate 2x14TB Mach2 with the dual actuators in them- and you guess it, QTS does not cope with the dual LUN appearance. No drive replacement on by one. Next idea: got some other Seagate Exos and started the replacement. when I saw the first "Illegal request..." I realized this is the perfect moment to create a backup of the most important data :lol: before I replace the next drive...

After the experience above I think I am not replacing the HDDs but rather the NAS unit itself with one from a different vendor... or build one with TrueNAS or unraid for budget reasons.
fluxx_comp
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Re: Slow slow slow copy of up old data to external USB drive

Post by fluxx_comp »

Update:
reverted back the the original HDD, no difference with the unmotivated reboots.
Still seeing "System booting..." forever -> disconnected ALL USB devices (including the USB link of the UPS), that helped the reboot hung.

Swapped out the PSU brick- Ever since the box runs stable, no more crashes. Looks like the power supply is on the way out and does not work when load gets higher (trying to copy all data to an external drive).
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