Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Backup, Restore, Netbak Replicator, Cloud Storage Services
Post Reply
user1028
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:20 pm

Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by user1028 »

I recently had a major NAS failure which ultimately lost all of my data on my NAS. Thankfully I had a backup that I was able to restore from, but the backup of the backup was just a collection of 10TB external drives which I've put critical data on. I was nervous the whole time restoring knowing the backup could fail and then I'd be pulling from external drives. I immediately ordered an additional QNAP and additional drives so that I can have a second backup offsite.

I've been reading about backups, thick volumes vs. static, snapshots and snapshot replicas, etc. My head is spinning.
We do video editing with 4 computers accessing our main QNAP.

Main QNAP: TS-1685. This box has 12x 10TB drives set up in RAID6 as a thick volume using 100% of the pool. This gives me just over 90TB of usable space. I usually use about 60TB for actual data, but could cut back if needed (I could archive obsolete projects more often). This is my main system for accessible data.

Backup: My backup is an 8-bay TS-832X with 8x 10TB drives set up in RAID5 as a static volume. This gives me about 63TB of usable space. This box is on the network. The main box mirrors to this box nightly. This has worked fine but I know this is not a real backup. We have the network recycle bin set up so if a file is ever accidentally deleted we are able to recover it from the recycle bin, but this doesn't help for ransomware or for files accidentally being overwritten (rather than being deleted).

2nd Backup:We just purchased the 8-bay TS-832PX with 8x 16TB drives. This box is not setup or initialized yet. I need advice on how best to utilize this. Should this take the place of my backup since there is more space and then move my smaller backup off-site to run weekly backups?

At the end of the day I would like:
  • my main system with our project and video files
  • an on-site backup with the ability to recover lost, changed, damaged, ransomed, etc. files from previous 4 weeks (or even 2 weeks)
  • An off-site backup that is updated weekly or bi-weekly, mostly for theft or natural disaster
Can you give any advice on how to set these up so I finally have it done right?

Thank you,
Stephen
QNAP TS-1685, TS-832X, TS-832PX
Bob Zelin
Experience counts
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Orlando, FL.
Contact:

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by Bob Zelin »

Hello -
the TS-1685 is old. The TS-832X is cheap garbage and the TS-832PX is really cheap garbage. So you want to buy cheap garbage and be really safe.
You are a video editing facility right ?
You buy a TVS-h1688X. This will ultimately become your main system. You install the QuTS OS on two 500 Gig SSD drives, and load up the TVS-h1688X with at least 10 TB drives, but since it's almost 2022, you put in BIG drives. The main RAID becomes RAID 6, and you do do a single thin provisioned volume.
You put the TS-1685 and the TVS-h1688X 10G ports on a 10G switch (QNAP QSW-M1208-8C, or larger Netgear or UniFi 10G switch), and you run QNAP Hybrid Backup Sync RTRR to backup from one to the other. Once you do the backup to the new TVS-h1688X, this becomes your main QNAP, and your old TS-1685 becomes the backup.

No more thinking. No more head spinning. Follow my instructions. But of course, your boss will say "I AM NOT SPENDING $2700 !".

what can I say ?

bobzelin@icloud.com
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com
user1028
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by user1028 »

Thanks for your suggestion, Bob. I appreciate it. If we add in the TVS-h1688X would the 832x be appropriate for a second backup (or backup of the backup, whatever the terminology is)? I understand that if it's off-site I would have to deal with internet speeds but I think that would be fine if I do the first backup locally then move it off-site.

We have a qnap 10g switch but I don't recall which one.

If we do go this route, how do we do versioning? Is that with snapshots? It's that something done on the main system or on the backup?

Thank you again,
Stephen
QNAP TS-1685, TS-832X, TS-832PX
user1028
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by user1028 »

Bob Zelin wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:41 am Hello -
the TS-1685 is old. The TS-832X is cheap garbage and the TS-832PX is really cheap garbage. So you want to buy cheap garbage and be really safe.
You are a video editing facility right ?
You buy a TVS-h1688X. This will ultimately become your main system. You install the QuTS OS on two 500 Gig SSD drives, and load up the TVS-h1688X with at least 10 TB drives, but since it's almost 2022, you put in BIG drives. The main RAID becomes RAID 6, and you do do a single thin provisioned volume.
You put the TS-1685 and the TVS-h1688X 10G ports on a 10G switch (QNAP QSW-M1208-8C, or larger Netgear or UniFi 10G switch), and you run QNAP Hybrid Backup Sync RTRR to backup from one to the other. Once you do the backup to the new TVS-h1688X, this becomes your main QNAP, and your old TS-1685 becomes the backup.

No more thinking. No more head spinning. Follow my instructions. But of course, your boss will say "I AM NOT SPENDING $2700 !".

what can I say ?

bobzelin@icloud.com
Hi again Bob,
We're looking at the 16-bay version of the TVS-h1688X because it's only a bit more for additional drive bays. If we stock it with 16TB drives would this be a good route to go as the main system? If we opted for versioning or snapshots is that something we do on our main system or would we need to then upgrade our 1685 with bigger drives to keep up with our new 1686?
Thank you for your time,
-Stephen
QNAP TS-1685, TS-832X, TS-832PX
Bob Zelin
Experience counts
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Orlando, FL.
Contact:

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by Bob Zelin »

I don't do snapshots, so I can't answer accurately your question.
You make the TVS-h1688X the main system, and the TS-1685 as the backup system. When you get the TVS-h1688X, you use Hybrid Backup Sync over a 10G network to transfer all the data to the new TVS-h1688X. And of course, if you have 10 TB drives in the TS-1685, and 16 TB drives in the TVS-h1688X, you will eventually run out of room on the TS-1685 as the backup system. IT's easy for me to talk - it's not my money - but you should have the same size drives in the main system and the backup system (or just don't back everything up).

The TVS-h1688X is a much better product that the TS-1685 (and the TS-1685 was great).
Bob
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com
user1028
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by user1028 »

Bob Zelin wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:41 am You install the QuTS OS on two 500 Gig SSD drives, and load up the TVS-h1688X with at least 10 TB drives, but since it's almost 2022, you put in BIG drives. The main RAID becomes RAID 6, and you do do a single thin provisioned volume.
Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your input.

I have just a couple more questions and then I'll post a new thread about versioning/backup options.
  • I've never used QuTS, but I assume it's the same as QuTS Hero? I see that as a download option so I'm guessing I can get that figured out once the TVS-h1688X comes in. The box and drives should all arrive around the same time.
  • I've used Samsung Evo SSD drives in the past. Is there any reason to buy a specific drive/model for the OS as long as it's 500GB?
  • You suggested I set up the new system as a single thin provisioned volume. I thought I understood that "thick" volumes were faster than "thin." What's the reason for thin in your suggestion? I think I also recall there were only certain backup options depending on the provisioning, so I'll look into that as well.
Thanks for your help on this!
-Stephen
QNAP TS-1685, TS-832X, TS-832PX
Bob Zelin
Experience counts
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Orlando, FL.
Contact:

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by Bob Zelin »

replies -
QuTS is QuTS hero. It's a cute name for QNAP's ZFS operating system. That is all.
The TVS-h1688X can be configured in QTS or QuTS (why anyone would buy a TVS-h1688X and run QTS is beyond me !).

I am sure that there are plenty of people that know more than me, that will say I am wrong here - but any old SSD will work. Samsung EVO 860's even work great. They are just not current part numbers.

As for static/thin/thick -
I only used to setup Static volumes with QTS systems. Never thick volumes, never thin volumes. But there are no more static volumes in QuTS. So it's either thin or thick. I do not want to setup specific volume sizes in the QNAP single 12 drive volume - and with a Thick volume, it won't let you choose "maximum size". The only way to do that - so it dynamically expands as you increase your data, is with a thin provisioned volume. These are not the rules of QTS. And to top this off - I watched a bunch of QNAP training videos on YouTube, and they were all thin provisioned - so between those 2, I just left it at thin provisioned. And the speeds are great -as good or better than the static volumes I would get with a single RAID group and a QTS system.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com
user1028
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by user1028 »

Bob Zelin wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:41 am You install the QuTS OS on two 500 Gig SSD drives,
Hi Bob, we've begun setting up the new system. It was quite easy to install QuTS Hero since it presented it as an option upon initialization. However, I'm not exactly sure what to do with the SSDs. Are they for cache acceleration (what I'm familiar with) or am I actually installing QuTS on those drives in a RAID configuration? Sorry if this is simple stuff.
QNAP TS-1685, TS-832X, TS-832PX
Bob Zelin
Experience counts
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Orlando, FL.
Contact:

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by Bob Zelin »

you install QuTS on the SSD's. You create Storage Pool 1 RAID 1 with 2 SSD's in the TVS-h1688X. You DO NOT install QuTS on the 12 SATA drives. when you are done, and you see your default folders on Storage Pool 1 (the SSD's) - NOW, you go back into Storage and Snapshots, and create Storage Pool 2 with all the SATA drives, as a thin provisioned volume. I always do RAID 6 on this model.

Bob
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com
user1028
Getting the hang of things
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Can I get advice on a backup setup?

Post by user1028 »

Bob Zelin wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:02 am you install QuTS on the SSD's. You create Storage Pool 1 RAID 1 with 2 SSD's in the TVS-h1688X. You DO NOT install QuTS on the 12 SATA drives. when you are done, and you see your default folders on Storage Pool 1 (the SSD's) - NOW, you go back into Storage and Snapshots, and create Storage Pool 2 with all the SATA drives, as a thin provisioned volume. I always do RAID 6 on this model.

Bob
Thank you, I greatly appreciate your insight!
QNAP TS-1685, TS-832X, TS-832PX
Post Reply

Return to “Backup & Restore”