Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

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hknap
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Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by hknap » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:38 pm

Intro to the problem;

I have an enterprise grade TS-883XU-RP / 8 Bay box which was working fine for around two years. Two days ago, I had initiated a shutdown through the web interface where the box switched off normally. I generally do not switch this box off except for the purpose of a card installation (Network / NVME), but for the purpose of a possible future physical migration, I just switched it off for the experience. When turning it on after hours of it being in an off state, it started booting as normal with the usual fans noise and audible beeps. As I left the box to boot, which usually takes around 10 minutes, I came back to find it in an off state. Trying to press the power button again, I did not get any response.

So I went behind the box to look at the power supplies, the dual power supplies have a green indicator led and neither was showing a green light. Tried to remove the power supply unit, as they are hot swappable, by removing a single power supply and trying to power up the box with one, I simply got the relay sound whenever I connected the power cable to either of the power supplies. I went through articles advising removal of all hard drives, and all cards, done the same with no use. I even tried a single RAM module, with no use. At this point, I knew there was some hardware error or fault (Motherboard / Power Supply) and so I opened the box and peeked inside. Everything looked clean and normal, just a red led was in a constant ON state once any power cable was connected / energized to either of the power supplies.

The Data;

The box has 8 Bays, 6 of which contain 16TB each, and 2 of which contain 8TB - Both groups are in RAID (The Six Drives are in Raid 6 and the Two drives honestly I do not remember if in Raid Mirror or Stripe). I also have 3 NVMEs connected to the box on two separate QNAP NVME PCI cards. The cards respectively contain 2 NVMEs used for SSD Caching Read / Write, and 1 as a storage to hold the Qnap NAS app data. I hope I remember right hehe.

Of course what I would see important is the recovery of the data in the drives listed above, because the box can always be fixed, changed or replaced. I did raise a support ticket, as the NAS is still under warranty and currently awaiting a response. Meanwhile I was thinking my options to get the data. I do have much of the data backed up, yet some recent data is not:

My Options;

Option A - To connect the drives to a PC and recover the data

Option B - To immediately purchase a new Qnap NAS and connect the same drives

Option C - To wait for the Qnap support team whom might either;
- C1 Provide me with a procedure to get the box up, by resetting the hardware fault and fixing the problem
or - C2 Ask me to ship the box to them for a fix, and C2a = They get it fixed or C2b = They get it replaced

My Questions are as follows:

First and Foremost the question to the experts is; Which option would you choose, assuming you did not have a backup?

In continuation, the following sub-questions take place:

In Option A - 1- What is the easiest way to recover the data using this method, use SATA, USB to SATA or other? 2- Operating system wise, choose Windows or Linux for the recovery and the reasons and what are the tools recommended? 3- Any precautions and is there a more preferable way to do the same? 4- What about the NVMEs?

In Option B - 1- If anyone is in a desperate position to get the data back urgently, is this a more recommended (as in safer) approach instead of the one above in option A?

In looking at the compatibility page below, it is clearly mentions that SSD caching is supposed to be disabled before Hard drive migration, and for me this is not possible at this stage, the line reads: (*You must disable SSD caching on the source NAS before migrating to the destination NAS.) 2- So should be a concern, and in turn would fail the migration. (The selected models for migration are hypothetical just to get the green tick, assuming we could choose any other compatible model)

https://www.qnap.com/en/nas-migration?o ... -1283xu-rp

It is also obvious also from the articles, that the operating system on the box preferably be the latest version. I do remember the box being on 4.x rather than 5.x.

3- Is there any way to determine the version on the failed NAS now (or possibly from the removed Hard drives).
4- What happens to the NVMEs used for cache or to store data when migrating from box to box?
5- Finally, can the data be recovered out of NVMEs in Options A and B above?

https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/knowledg ... he-old-one

Looking at Option C, it is obvious if the box is repaired either by myself through Qnap support or Via Qnap support if physically shipped, everything should naturally be back. But in the case Qnap support decides to replace the box, option B is applicable. So no questions here.

I generally would start the experimentation and reach to some sort of resolution, one way or the other. However, I did want to take the time to write this as a topic, hoping the same would be useful for the others on the forum. Thanks.

ritters
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by ritters » Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:15 pm

If time is a factor and obviously no backup available: Option B and setting up a backup schedule for the future.

FSC830
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by FSC830 » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:12 pm

No experience with SSD cache here, but as far as I know you can put the disk in a new NAS (see compatibilty matrix) and regain access to the data.
There should also no SSD/NVMe already installed in new NAS, just plug in the HDDs and boot up.
If firmware version differs (its most likely as you dont know the last one used), during bootup the QTS "claims" for a version mismatch. But this should not be a problem.
Just do an update (or downgrade, whatever is preferred), use Qfinder for up-/down the firmware is best choice here. If firmware version at HDDs is older than on NAS, I would prefer a downgrade to use last version when old NAS was running.

BTW: option A is IMHO the worst. You need a software which is able to rebuild the raid and LVM settings and capacity to restore the data/images If you cant connect all six HDDs at same time, the software needs to be storing images in a "staging aera".
There is software availabe (some users report), but again, not only raid but LVM too needs to be rebuild which makes it rather difficult. A vaild and current backup is the best choice.
If no backup is available you need to use the "hard way" or to smash the data.
If cache was used for read/and write my guess is that by issueing a "shutdown" command all data is written to HDDs prior power off, so there should not be any data which needs to be recovered. But I dont know, how QNAP deals which such things. This is different in an unexpected power fail, when disks lost power immediately and no UPS is available (in your config I would consider a UPS as well, same importance as a backup!).

For future use: I do not run any "live" update at my NAS devices. At least, if I decide performing an live update I downlaod the firmware image and store it in a safe place (not at hte NAS), so I can be sure to install every version I would like to use.
At QNAPs download sites some older firmware version are removed without any notice, so it happens very often that only a later firmware than the last installed is available. And this is not, what people like. Some have reasons why not to use a newer firmware. If NAS is not connected/accessible by internet there is not need to run at latest firmware.

To B - 1 : if someone needs a fast access to data again, he needs to consider a more reliable configuration. A "warm-standby" (or a "cold standby") device is useful here. Create backup /sync jobs for duplicating the data.
In case if primary device fails you have multiple choices:
1. rename and re-set IP of "secondary device" so it looks from client site as the primary.
2. modify the clients to access the secondary device
3. replace primary device with a new device and same settings as primary and re-sync the data from secondary device
4. ??? Sure, that there are more configurations to think about. If money is not taken in place consider a HA cluster setup (afaik not possible with QNAP).

Regards
A raid is never a substitute for backup! Never!

hknap
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by hknap » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:47 pm

FSC830 wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:12 pm
No experience with SSD cache here, but as far as I know you can put the disk in a new NAS (see compatibilty matrix) and regain access to the data.
There should also no SSD/NVMe already installed in new NAS, just plug in the HDDs and boot up.
If firmware version differs (its most likely as you dont know the last one used), during bootup the QTS "claims" for a version mismatch. But this should not be a problem.
Just do an update (or downgrade, whatever is preferred), use Qfinder for up-/down the firmware is best choice here. If firmware version at HDDs is older than on NAS, I would prefer a downgrade to use last version when old NAS was running.

BTW: option A is IMHO the worst. You need a software which is able to rebuild the raid and LVM settings and capacity to restore the data/images If you cant connect all six HDDs at same time, the software needs to be storing images in a "staging aera".
There is software availabe (some users report), but again, not only raid but LVM too needs to be rebuild which makes it rather difficult. A vaild and current backup is the best choice.
If no backup is available you need to use the "hard way" or to smash the data.
If cache was used for read/and write my guess is that by issueing a "shutdown" command all data is written to HDDs prior power off, so there should not be any data which needs to be recovered. But I dont know, how QNAP deals which such things. This is different in an unexpected power fail, when disks lost power immediately and no UPS is available (in your config I would consider a UPS as well, same importance as a backup!).

For future use: I do not run any "live" update at my NAS devices. At least, if I decide performing an live update I downlaod the firmware image and store it in a safe place (not at hte NAS), so I can be sure to install every version I would like to use.
At QNAPs download sites some older firmware version are removed without any notice, so it happens very often that only a later firmware than the last installed is available. And this is not, what people like. Some have reasons why not to use a newer firmware. If NAS is not connected/accessible by internet there is not need to run at latest firmware.

To B - 1 : if someone needs a fast access to data again, he needs to consider a more reliable configuration. A "warm-standby" (or a "cold standby") device is useful here. Create backup /sync jobs for duplicating the data.
In case if primary device fails you have multiple choices:
1. rename and re-set IP of "secondary device" so it looks from client site as the primary.
2. modify the clients to access the secondary device
3. replace primary device with a new device and same settings as primary and re-sync the data from secondary device
4. ??? Sure, that there are more configurations to think about. If money is not taken in place consider a HA cluster setup (afaik not possible with QNAP).

Regards
Thanks for your input; just to share a few thoughts, facts and experience:

* The system is definitely connected to a UPS, to add, both power supplies are connected to UPS. The future plan was to connect both Power supplies to seperate UPS units however, as you know the unit is now dead.
* I have done Option A before, using a tool called UFS. Difficult and yes, you will need space but again, this gave instant access to the data. I wonder if i will venture this time... plus with 6 drivers on Raid 6, I belive ill only need to connect 4.

Finally, yes while the box was switched off gracefully, as the shutdown was initiated formally, hence NVMe cache must have been flushed to the hdd however when the box was started again it went in an 'On' state at first, it beeped, then went off. Now the power button does nothing .. I was wondering if this will result in a crash in RAID which may require rebuilding, or result in something new being written with this abrupt shutdown include data to or from the Cache NVMe. Aside the fact one NVMe has the NAS applications written on it...

Anyway, I just got the first response from the Qnap support team. I am currently being asked questions such as "whether I hear beeps from the device without HDD installed" which unfortunately not,, and hopefully we will get to the resolution. Ill keep this post updated...

hknap
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by hknap » Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:58 pm

Solution is now moving towards RMA, and the issue was identified as "Confirmed that issue is in nas mother board". So I filled the RMA form, and lets see what the next step is...

hknap
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by hknap » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:18 pm

hknap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:58 pm
Solution is now moving towards RMA, and the issue was identified as "Confirmed that issue is in nas mother board". So I filled the RMA form, and lets see what the next step is...
So I was requested to ship the item back for repair. 250$ was Spent on shipping the 15kg item back to the manufacturer. As per the courier, the size/weight determines the cost of shipping whichever is higher so they decided based on the large packaging to apply the cost of 25kg as the size / weight unlucky me. Also, there seems to be a great deal of confusion to how the tax and customs work in different countries. Since this is a defective item, sent for repair, hopefully I will not be recharged for the same again neither is qnap, as I haven't bought a new item, but you never know. I sure hope that no further problems happen on the way as its set to be received by qnap in 5 - 7 days. So we are moving here towards "Option C" here.

I did also purchase a "Sabrent USB 3.2 5-Bay 3.5" SATA Hard Drive Tray-Less Docking Station (DS-SC5B)" from Amazon, to enable myself to execute "Option A" if that does become a last resort. That set me back another 305$.

hknap
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by hknap » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:21 am

hknap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:38 pm

3- Is there any way to determine the version on the failed NAS now (or possibly from the removed Hard drives).
So the answer is yes, and the process is as follows, as long as you have a hard drive removed from the system you can mount it to a PC via USB and read the partition that stores the QNAP system info.

As I stated earlier, I have Six x 16TBs in Raid 6 and Two x 8TBs in mirror. By plugging in one of the 8TBs into USB (My safest option with least complication) I have gone through steps A > D as attached

A - Selecting "sector 40" Ext2/3/4 Partition, which includes the config data of the box
B - Going to the .config / .qos_config / users / "username" /
C - Selecting the "config" file
D - Reading the values, which showed me that my box version was 4.5.4 when I last logged in
Steps.jpg
Why I asked this question was; I wanted to ensure that when I get the box back from RMA, the same version of firmware to be installed on the box while placing the HDDs back.

As you are aware, by moving this way, I am now becoming more and more desperate to get my non backed up data before the unit comes back. Next is a decision to rebuild RAID for the six drives which are in RAID 6, by connecting four to five drives via USB. Meanwhile waiting for an update from RMA which may change my course of direction...
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FSC830
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by FSC830 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:18 am

Some users report that they have been able to recover their data with https://www.**.com/.
I have no experience by myself, but may be its worth a try?

Regards

Edit: Link is masked? May be an unwanted advertise? URL is "u f s e x p l o r e r . c o m".

BTW: you see only major version in your editor, but not the build. I guess, there is more than a single v4.5.4 :wink: .
A raid is never a substitute for backup! Never!

dosborne
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by dosborne » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:20 am

FSC830 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:18 am
Edit: Link is masked? May be an unwanted advertise? URL is "u f s e x p l o r e r . c o m".
FSC830 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:18 am
I have no experience by myself, but may be its worth a try?
LOL
QNAP TS-563-16G 5x10TB Seagate Ironwolf HDD Raid-5 Triple NIC: 2x1GB 1x10GbE
QNAP TS-231P-US 2x18TB Seagate Exos HDD Raid-1 Dual 1GB NIC

FSC830
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by FSC830 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:06 am

:-0 :roll: :DD
A raid is never a substitute for backup! Never!

hknap
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by hknap » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:22 pm

FSC830 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:18 am

I have no experience by myself, but may be its worth a try?

BTW: you see only major version in your editor, but not the build. I guess, there is more than a single v4.5.4 :wink: .
Yes, that is one of the things I tried, I am yet to try on RAID 6 pool.

Nice BTW point raised. I am sure there should be a way to get the build. Any help anyone? Which file to look at..

FSC830
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Re: Migration of Hard Drives to New NAS - Data Recovery

Post by FSC830 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:32 pm

hknap wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:21 am
...
Why I asked this question was; I wanted to ensure that when I get the box back from RMA, the same version of firmware to be installed on the box while placing the HDDs back.
...
Actually I see no need to investigate in this.
If the firmware version in target NAS (=migration) is different from firmware version at disks, this is not a problem!
If you know which firmware is at disks, just install this version with Qfinder, no matter if version at NAS is newer or older than at disks.
If you dont know the version just install the same version as installed at NAS again, this will write the firmware to disks, so firmware matches aftwerwards.

Regards
A raid is never a substitute for backup! Never!

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