Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

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andrew124C41+
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Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:13 am

So, I just returned 2 WD Reds for a refund after finding out about the SMR fraud WD tried to pull off and I am starting from scratch. I have a fair amount of experience with PCs and some with networking but have not used a NAS previously.

I now intend to use all 4 bays and have some decisions to make which is the basis for my questions.

The NAS is to be used by just my wife and me to back up our files and media. There are two PCs and two laptops. We also intend to stream to one or two televisions.

I would also like to be able to access the NAS from elsewhere if it can be set up safely.

Questions:

1) Has anybody used the TS451+ as a server rather than a NAS?
2) If so, is there any advantage to doing so?
3) I used to think that from studies I read, now several years ago, that WD was the way to go, at least in terms of HD brand. Since the SMR fiasco and also having had a blue drive dead right out of the box, I am not so sure. What brand and model would people recommend for the NAS?
4) Finally, I have read conflicting articles about using a RAID 5 configuration, that you could lose everything during a rebuild. However, using a RAID 6 or 10 is at a storage overhead cost forcing me to use higher capacity and therefore more expensive drives. How are you solving this problem?

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dolbyman
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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by dolbyman » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:20 am

1) unclear what you mean by that
2) see 1
3) ST Ironwolf(Pro) is my goto right now
4) Backups! You can mitigate the complete loss on 2 drive failures on RAID5, by having full external backups of all your data. The same goes for RAID6 (3 drives would have to fail for complete loss, a RAID never replaces backups)


For safe access from outside your LAN, run a VP Server on router or firewall

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by OneCD » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:28 am

andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:13 am
1) Has anybody used the TS451+ as a server rather than a NAS?
The NAS is a server, primarily a file-server. ;)

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am

I think then I may be confused. I think of a server as the repository for files on a network that has essentially terminals on which no files are stored....All terminals access the server for their files.

I thought that a NAS could be configured one of two ways.....as a server OR
to use as a backup for all the data on individual PCs.

I have an external HD on which I do my backups on but I thought the idea was to replace it with the NAS, create my own cloud to use as a backup.

Yes, I never thought of a RAID configuration in a PC as a backup, just as another way of storing data locally.

Please explain what I am missing here.

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by OneCD » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:37 am

andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am
I think of a server as the repository for files on a network ...
Correct so-far. πŸ‘
andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am
... that has essentially terminals on which no files are stored....All terminals access the server for their files.
That's one way to do it. A server can also host files for access by "smart" terminals (i.e. the average desktop PC) so these files can be accessed by many terminals (clients).
andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am
I thought that a NAS could be configured one of two ways.....as a server OR
to use as a backup for all the data on individual PCs.
These NAS can do both as they are file-servers. :geek:

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:40 am

dolbyman wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:20 am
1) unclear what you mean by that
2) see 1
3) ST Ironwolf(Pro) is my goto right now
4) Backups! You can mitigate the complete loss on 2 drive failures on RAID5, by having full external backups of all your data. The same goes for RAID6 (3 drives would have to fail for complete loss, a RAID never replaces backups)


For safe access from outside your LAN, run a VP Server on router or firewall
Did you ever use WD or were you always using the Ironwolf Pros?

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:46 am

OneCD wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:37 am
andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am
I think of a server as the repository for files on a network ...
Correct so-far. πŸ‘
andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am
... that has essentially terminals on which no files are stored....All terminals access the server for their files.
That's one way to do it. A server can also host files for access by "smart" terminals (i.e. the average desktop PC) so these files can be accessed by many terminals (clients).
andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:33 am
I thought that a NAS could be configured one of two ways.....as a server OR
to use as a backup for all the data on individual PCs.
These NAS can do both as they are file-servers. :geek:
I guess what I am getting at is that rather than use an external HD, one for each of our PCs and laptops, that I could use a NAS as our own personal cloud.....or backup.....

Is a NAS setup as a backup device configured differently.....or is some kind of RAD configuration used?
The only thing then is that perhaps we would keep our videos on the local pc rather than stream them from the NAS since is going to be used for backup purposes.

I used to use Acronis but have switched to Macrium Reflext to backup our individual OSs as well as our data...but want to switch to using Macrium to backup on the NAS.

I hope this is more clear and makes sense

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by OneCD » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:53 am

andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:46 am
Is a NAS setup as a backup device configured differently.....or is some kind of RAD configuration used?
"RAID" and "backup" are two completely different concepts. One has nothing to do with the other.

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by dolbyman » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:03 am

andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:40 am
Did you ever use WD or were you always using the Ironwolf Pros?
They were main main goto before that SMR debacle (Red/Red Pro)

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:06 am

OneCD wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:53 am
andrew124C41+ wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:46 am
Is a NAS setup as a backup device configured differently.....or is some kind of RAD configuration used?
"RAID" and "backup" are two completely different concepts. One has nothing to do with the other.
I understand that if I were to create a RAID in my PC for example, it is not a backup. Something could happen to the PC...infection, etc., and my data would be lost.

It was my intent to use the NAS as my own personal "cloud." As you begin to store more "stuff" it gets more expensive uploading it to a commercially paid storage site.

So, you can put 5 or 10 T drives on your PCs, you can buy or make your own 5 or 10 T external HD, and then have your NAS as a backup even though it is in a RAID configuration.

Does this make sense?

If not, what is the most common backup strategy home users have these days?

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by dolbyman » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:38 am

As I wrote further up, be VERY careful with that "personal cloud" stuff

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:21 am

dolbyman wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:38 am
As I wrote further up, be VERY careful with that "personal cloud" stuff
Not sure I understand what you mean. When one is talking about a PC, I get that having a RAID setup is not a form of backup. But, I don't understand why the concept of a "personal cloud" is problematic. Even if you stuck a single disk in a NAS and treated it like an external HD, it is still one form of backup. If you have 4 disks in a NAS in a RAID 6 or 10 configurations, you can lose two drives.

If it is a concern about a fire, something like that, yes, you would lose everything.

I guess my question is whether or not everyone on the forum here backsup all their date to a commercial cloud solution.

Unless you want to stream media or files, what is the point of having a nas if you cannot use it for backup

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by dolbyman » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:24 am

personal cloud would be available from outside of your home (the cloud part) ...

exposing your nas to the whole world ..thats a bad idea


also dont mix up raid and backup...if your nas is the only storage for the files..its not a backup

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by andrew124C41+ » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:39 am

dolbyman wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:24 am
personal cloud would be available from outside of your home (the cloud part) ...

exposing your nas to the whole world ..thats a bad idea


also dont mix up raid and backup...if your nas is the only storage for the files..its not a backup
OK, theoretical situation. Home has 2 pcs and 2 laptops. PC 1) has and SSD for the Win 10 OS and a 4 T HD for data, the ussers folder was moved to the HD at deployment using sysprep and an answer file It also has videos stored for watching on the attached Samsung flat screen 4 K TV which is being used as a monitor
PC two is setup up exactly the same way but does not have media on it, just used for research, Then there is one MacAir and another Windows laptop setup up the same way, except it has one SSD with two partitions, one for the Win OS and the other with the users folder and data.

At present, Macrium Reflect is being used to do backups of the OSs and the data for each respective device to its respective 2 T external drive.

The purported purpose of the NAS is really just to replace the external Hard drives and automate the backups.

it was my understanding that the NAS could even be automated to turn on once a week or once a day to automate the backups of at least the two PCs which are on the home network.

As I see it, the only potential problem is having the nas on premisis. It could in theory be placed at another location and the backup done over the internet....if there is a way to do that securely.

How would you configure the NAS? What size disks?

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Re: Drive and RAID configuration Choices For TS451+

Post by dolbyman » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:48 am

If everything stays within your LAN its all good..just the term personal cloud is wrong ..no cloud here

I would put 4 spinning disks in raid5 in the nas with enough storage for your needs ..just make sure they are cmr and nit smr (wd red non plus or pro)

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