TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

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hopeandnotexpect
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by hopeandnotexpect »

@t0mmili, the 33.5 GB isn't an accident actually. Here is how you can arrive at the same calculation.

32GB x 1024MB/GB x 1024KB/MB = 33,554,432 KB
Now, if you use that number to just look at GB in units of 1000 instead of 1024, you will see it as 33.5 GB (using the first 3 digits in KB).

This isn't the proper industry practice though. The industry uses GiB vs GB.
  • 1 GIB = 10*9 = 1,000,000,000 Bytes
  • 1 GB = 2^30 = 1,073,741,824 Bytes
i.e. It should show as 34.36GiB or 32GB.

In any case, that's why you see what looks like a funny number. It's because of the conversion between a base-2 vs base-10 calculation, as exhibited above.

Now, onto your situation...in no case do I see the memory go past 25%. However, I noted something very interesting.
You said:
t0mmili wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:03 am Currently I use only one module at a time (16GB). Works like a charm.
Can you confirm if that is a single stick of 16GB? (i.e. if you only use 1x of the 2x that you have) Now, if that's the case, we can think about a few things.
  1. The clue can potentially signify that actually faster burst memory accesses are exposing your problem. With 2 sticks of RAM, that's dual-channel enabled, so you get double the burst access on DDR. If this is the real reason for the problems you are running into, then it means that one or more of the processes that you are running may be exposing some timing/race-condition that causes the OS to hang. Have you tried checking dmesg and/or syslog to see what errors are there?
  2. Even though the memory test passed, the 2nd memory stick is the culprit, regardless. Have you tried using the 2nd memory stick in the primary boot slot instead to see if it is stable?
  3. Not sure if you have memory sitting around, but, if you do, have you tried doing 16GB via 2x8GB, to see how stable the system is?
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t0mmili
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by t0mmili »

@hopeandnotexpect
hopeandnotexpect wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:38 pm @t0mmili, the 33.5 GB isn't an accident actually. Here is how you can arrive at the same calculation.

32GB x 1024MB/GB x 1024KB/MB = 33,554,432 KB
Now, if you use that number to just look at GB in units of 1000 instead of 1024, you will see it as 33.5 GB (using the first 3 digits in KB).

This isn't the proper industry practice though. The industry uses GiB vs GB.
  • 1 GIB = 10*9 = 1,000,000,000 Bytes
  • 1 GB = 2^30 = 1,073,741,824 Bytes
i.e. It should show as 34.36GiB or 32GB.
That is correct. Metricbeat system memory metric is actually in bytes, so it's multiplied by 1024, like you stated.
hopeandnotexpect wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:38 pm Can you confirm if that is a single stick of 16GB? (i.e. if you only use 1x of the 2x that you have)
Yes, it's a single 16GB stick (from this 32GB set I have).
hopeandnotexpect wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:38 pm [*]The clue can potentially signify that actually faster burst memory accesses are exposing your problem. With 2 sticks of RAM, that's dual-channel enabled, so you get double the burst access on DDR. If this is the real reason for the problems you are running into, then it means that one or more of the processes that you are running may be exposing some timing/race-condition that causes the OS to hang. Have you tried checking dmesg and/or syslog to see what errors are there?
syslog was the obvious thing to check, but I just could find it in this QNAP linux distro. All I have is useless event log & access log.
Didn't check the dmesg though, I'll try that.
hopeandnotexpect wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:38 pm [*]Even though the memory test passed, the 2nd memory stick is the culprit, regardless. Have you tried using the 2nd memory stick in the primary boot slot instead to see if it is stable?
I have tried every configuration possible: swapping sticks, single stick in 1st port, than in 2nd port, than the same with the other stick. All failed.
hopeandnotexpect wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:38 pm [*]Not sure if you have memory sitting around, but, if you do, have you tried doing 16GB via 2x8GB, to see how stable the system is?
I don't have any sticks at the moment. At first I was thinking to buy 2x8GB set, but than I read here that @larienz had luck with 2x16GB set, but 2400MHz version. What would be the best option in your opinion?
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t0mmili
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by t0mmili »

@hopeandnotexpect, unfortunatelly using dmesg in investigation didn't end up with any new clue. I attached log & metrics (5 min before connection was lost). Maybe there's something I'm missing, so I would be great if you could look at it.
It's a long shot, but now I have put 1 module (16GB) from 32GB set + the one I originally got with qnap (4GB), so we'll see...
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by SBaron »

I ordered this off Amazon. Been up with zero issues since Feb 14, 2022
Crucial 16GB Single DDR4 2666 MT/s (PC4-21300) DR X8 SODIMM 260-Pin Memory - CT16G4SFD8266
Except for file storage and Twonkey media server the TS-653D is not doing anything more at the moment.
TS-653D | 16GB RAM | (6) WD 4TB WD Red Pro RAID5
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by 0v3rl0rd »

Hi,

Two weeks ago I bought my TS-453D-4G. One memory slot was free, so I stumbled upon Your post () here. I went ahead and bought the KVR26S19D8/16, since here in Croatia, at the moment Crucial is more expensive than Kingston. Anyway, I can confirm that it boots up and recognizes the module properly, it works. 4+16 RAM, more than enough for my needs :)
And the NAS seems snappier than before, but that's just the first impression maybe :D
Will have to see if it continues to work normally for a week or two, but for now it seems stable :)
yyyy.PNG
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hopeandnotexpect
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by hopeandnotexpect »

t0mmili wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:57 pm I have tried every configuration possible: swapping sticks, single stick in 1st port, than in 2nd port, than the same with the other stick. All failed.
The instability you are encountering is still puzzling for me. Typically, my experience for these situations is bad/marginal Signal Integrity on the DDR modules, leading to instability. However, I find it hard to believe that Crucials would exhibit such behavior. It's still possible, as I have worked with physical DDR chips from the big 3x of Samsung, Micron, and Hynix. On another note, DDR4 requires higher refresh rates to errors, and, as these are non-ECC, I have to wonder if you are occasionally hitting some issues. In any case, I have to wonder if QNAP has marginal SI with the way they've laid out the PCB perhaps for the DDR.
t0mmili wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:57 pm I don't have any sticks at the moment. At first I was thinking to buy 2x8GB set, but than I read here that @larienz had luck with 2x16GB set, but 2400MHz version. What would be the best option in your opinion?
My tendency is to think that using anything >16GB is overkill for this processor. In reality, for my use-cases, even 8GB is mostly tenable. However, if you run enough VMs that just all need to be loaded but don't hog CPU, then it makes sense to consider more RAM.

For fun though, I bought 2x16GB Samsung's (2x M471A2K43CB1-CRC) to test out, as they were cheaper. Good thus far, but still testing. I am getting another set of Crucials later, after they get cheaper hopefully. In the meantime, I might try some Timetec or Teamgroup's later, as they're also cheaper. I'll get back to you on my findings.
t0mmili wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:17 pm @hopeandnotexpect, unfortunatelly using dmesg in investigation didn't end up with any new clue. I attached log & metrics (5 min before connection was lost). Maybe there's something I'm missing, so I would be great if you could look at it.
It's a long shot, but now I have put 1 module (16GB) from 32GB set + the one I originally got with qnap (4GB), so we'll see...
Sure, I would be more than happy to look at the dmesg to see if I can find anything. Did you send anything to me already? I don't see an attachment or PM.
SBaron wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:43 am I ordered this off Amazon. Been up with zero issues since Feb 14, 2022
Crucial 16GB Single DDR4 2666 MT/s (PC4-21300) DR X8 SODIMM 260-Pin Memory - CT16G4SFD8266
Except for file storage and Twonkey media server the TS-653D is not doing anything more at the moment.
Awesome to see the success. I personally would have bought the 2400Mhz and 2x8GB to get dual-channel, but what you have is more than reasonable. Be sure to test it for a week at least to ensure it is good. =)
0v3rl0rd wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:10 pm Two weeks ago I bought my TS-453D-4G. One memory slot was free, so I stumbled upon Your post () here. I went ahead and bought the KVR26S19D8/16, since here in Croatia, at the moment Crucial is more expensive than Kingston. Anyway, I can confirm that it boots up and recognizes the module properly, it works. 4+16 RAM, more than enough for my needs :)
And the NAS seems snappier than before, but that's just the first impression maybe :D
Will have to see if it continues to work normally for a week or two, but for now it seems stable :)
Haha... Funny enough, Kingston has been more expensive as of late in the US (not usually the case). I am buying Crucials, Samsung, Timetec, or Teamgroup memory right now instead.

It'll be snappier for the first 8GB because of dual-channel. The leftover 12GB will still be advantageous just due to the shear amount of memory. Still very good though. And, yes, that's a great memory module to use/buy. Nice job! Looking forward to another update with long-term testing.
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t0mmili
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by t0mmili »

@hopeandnotexpect
Somehow I convinced myself that files are attached :)
Here it the log and grafana screenshot 5 min before qnap lost contact with reality:
kmsg-20220330.zip
ts-453d-grafana-20220330-1.png
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hopeandnotexpect
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by hopeandnotexpect »

@t0mili, I took a look at your dmesg. The perf interrupts is peculiar, but I can't say that anything stands out otherwise. It occurred to me that your crash is a lot harder to debug in this scenario... I will have to figure out what we can do to get your syslog. I noted that there appears to be a QNAP Syslog Service. I just ordered the Crucial 2x16GB, so I'll let you know how it goes. I am having good experience with the Timetec and Samsung ones I've bought thus far. Will post more info after they run long enough :)
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by jumanjimanjimanji »

I'm having problems with the Timetec sticks I've purchased following NASCompares advice for my TS-453D (https://www.amazon.com/Timetec-PC4-2130 ... B07H4XNNXK).
The problems started when I'm using the QM2 card with 2 nvme ssds installed and all 4 bays used. I believe it's pushing the system to it's max and the architecture won't handle it.
The NAS works normally without the QM2 card, but with the 2 sticks of RAM it won't even boot. Even with 1 stick it will freeze randomly. I'm opening a ticket with QNAP to see if they can provide maybe a BIOS update. By the way, I'm on the latest QTS update.
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by dolbyman »

Please remove all referral tags from your amazon links or a mod will do this for you !
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by jumanjimanjimanji »

jumanjimanjimanji wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:12 am I'm having problems with the Timetec sticks I've purchased following NASCompares advice for my TS-453D (https://www.amazon.com/Timetec-PC4-2130 ... B07H4XNNXK).
The problems started when I'm using the QM2 card with 2 nvme ssds installed and all 4 bays used. I believe it's pushing the system to it's max and the architecture won't handle it.
The NAS works normally without the QM2 card, but with the 2 sticks of RAM it won't even boot. Even with 1 stick it will freeze randomly. I'm opening a ticket with QNAP to see if they can provide maybe a BIOS update. By the way, I'm on the latest QTS update.
UPDATE:
-I haven't specified the QM2 card I was using: QM2-2P-244A.
-I've ran a Memtest86 test with both sticks inserted, QM2 card on and no HDDs, everything seems OK.
-Updated BIOS to Q04MAR13 (I had Q04W017 previously installed) and the system now boots, previously the system would boot and stay frozen with HDD1 & HDD2 LEDs on. WIll update if I still get softlocks/hangs.
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by gdgross »

Thanks for this - literally asked this question the other day after installing some RAM and experiencing very long boot times.
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by gfddf »

Installed extra 16GB memory CT16G4SFRA32A on my TS-453D. Everything is good so far, have total of 20GB (4 + 16) available memory.

Newegg product page mentioned this module is 1Rx8
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Re: TS-x53d RAM Upgrade Informative Guide (TS-653D, TS-453D, TS-253D, TS-251D, TS-451D2)

Post by tyxeros »

Just got 2 x 8GB modules CT8G4SFS824A from Amazon for my new TS-453D-4G model. Unfortunately the modules do not work together. If i insert only one 8gig module then the system boots. Qnap BIOS Q04OAR05
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