TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Printers, HDDs, USB/eSATA drives, 3rd-party programs
Post Reply
alguti2000
New here
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:49 am

TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by alguti2000 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:40 am

I got a new TS-451A NAS in mid August 2016 -- just last month. I bought 4 4TB Seagate drives and 2 4GB SoDIMM mudules, with the same specs requires for this NAS.

I installed the hard drives and fired up the NAS. I went through the setup Wizard and a RAID 5 array started to be created. Half way this process, disk 3 & 4 were disconnected, followed by an error. I ended up doing a hard reset, and started all over. This time, I did not go through the Wizard, but use Storage Manager to create the array. It was successful. I finished all other configurations, and left a job running to copy all the data from my old NAS to the new one.

In the morning, I walked by the NAS and the top LED was flashing red. Logged into it, and...disk 3 and 4 had been dropped: Failure in Disk 3. And, this is when my nightmare started. I file a ticket with QNAP. After a 3 or 4 days, someone contacted me. After going through logs, the support person told me that I had bad disk drives -- 3 and 4. OK. I had my doubts, but I wiped the volume off, and so the disks, and did a hard reset. I moved disk 1 & 2 to 3 & 4, and vice versa. I went through the setup process again, and again it, the NAS reported errors in disk 3 and dropped 3 & 4. As in the first time, I created the array using Storage Manager, and everything was fine and dandy -- for less than 24 hours. While copying data from the old NAS, same exact problem occurred: Disk 3 failure. RAID inactive. blah. blah. I contacted the support person again, and again he came to the same conclusion that disk 3 & 4 were faulty. Notice, the disk in slot 3 & 4 are the ones that were in 1 & 2. So, it can't be the disks.

The support person pointed out that the model of the disks were not in the compatibility list, after I pointed out the fact that I had switched disks around, and still the NAS was reporting issues on disk 3. Fine. I sent the the 4 hard drives back to NewEgg -- which cost me $90 in restocking and shipping fees -- I bought 4 3TB HDs of a model in the compatibility list for the NAS.

I did a hard reset of the NAS to start anew. Once again, the NAS complained about disk 3 during the creation of the RAID 5 array. Hmmm...this are the "compatible" model HDs. I created the array, again, using Storage Manager, and every thing was fine and dandy. I ran a job to copy the data from the old NAS, and after ~36 hours, everything was copied, and no failures. Feeling a bit hopeful, I continued with setting up other features, such as creating two VMs. During that process, I had to reboot the NAS. After the reboot, the NAS complained that disk 3 had bad blocks, and again dropped 3 & 4. Rebooted again, and everything was just fine. I scanned all drives for bad sectors, and everything came A-OK. After that, it was back to failure after failure. I contacted the support person again, and his conclusion was that I had a bad hard drive. Really?

I do hardware validation for a living. This is NOT an issue with the hard drives -- and it wasn't either with the first set of hard drives I spent extra $90 to replace. This is an issue with the firmware, OR with the NAS hardware.

As a final test, I removed the 2 4GB (very expensive QNAP memory) SODIMM modules and put the original 2 1GB modules the NAS came with. No issues after 2 days. I put 2 1GB Samsung SODIMM modules, and no issues. I put back the two 4GB QNAP memory modules, and...disk 3 issues, again! I put back the original 2 1GB modules, and the issues went away. I installed 2 4GB Samsung SoDIMM modules, and once again, disk 3 failure issue came back.

So, before the QNAP supports suggests that I have bad memory modules, no! That's not the problem. The problem seems to happen when putting more than 2GB of memory -- well, at least when putting 8GB. I also tried a single 8GB module, and the issue happens. And, it happens whenever there is more than 2GB of memory installed.

Has anybody seen this, or similar issue?

I'm waiting for QNAP to send me an RMA I requested :| ...

dolbyman
Guru
Posts: 14895
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:11 am
Location: Vancouver BC , Canada

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by dolbyman » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:09 am

maybe the memory used is unsupported

There is many threads about people that updated their RAM and that resulted in various errors.
No boot, graphics issues, faulty systems

You have narrowed it down to the memory modules, so swap those with different models to test.

To get better help and tips, you would have to disclose make and model of the hardware additions you purchase

alguti2000
New here
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:49 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by alguti2000 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:23 pm

@dolbyman: I used QNAP and Samsung SoDIMMs. The QNAP memory is, supposedly, for the NAS I have. So, if the issue would be unsupported memory, I would expect errors ONLY with the Samsung SoDIMMs, and NOT with the QNAP memory modules.

Here are the details:
NAS: TS-451A
QNAP Memory:
- Original 2x1GB Modules - this is what the NAS came with
- 8GB QNAP Memory 2 Modules: QNAP RAM-4GDR3L-SO-1600 x 2

Also Tested with:
- 8GB Samsung Memory 2 Modules: M471B5173QH0YK0 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3 PC3L-12800,1600MHz, 204 PIN SODIMM
- 8GB Samsung Single Module: M471b1g73bh0-yk0 Samsung 8GB (PC3L-12800) DDR3L 1.35V 1600 204-Pin SoDimm

Hard Drives Configuration:
Seagate 4x3TB HD Model: ST3000VN000
RAID 5 array (4 disks)

Please note that both HDs and QNAP memory are in the compatibility list for the TS-451A NAS,

Also, I'm still to replicate the issue when only 2GB of RAM is installed. The issue happens all the time when 8GB are installed, regardless of whether in a single model 8GB, or two 4GB modules, or if the memory is from Samsung or the one that QNAP sells.

serhioromano
Starting out
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:40 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by serhioromano » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:26 pm

I just have almost same issue. My TS-451 came with 1Gb. I inserted 2 Hynix x 2GB and NAS would not boot. And interestingly enough, disk 3 and 4 leds was not working.

There should be defensively wrong with hardware. Now I afraid to buy another memory because there is no warranty it will work.

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43673
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by schumaku » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:34 am

serhioromano wrote:I just have almost same issue.
No - complete different NAS models.

serhioromano wrote:My TS-451 came with 1Gb. I inserted 2 Hynix x 2GB and NAS would not boot. And interestingly enough, disk 3 and 4 leds was not working.
Can't see much interesting - aside of the complete lack of an exact Hynix SO-DIMM module details. The ports 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 are connected and acting slightly different, certainly on the TS-451 NAS model. Well possible, the LED behave different if the NAS can't boot, lack of workable DRAM.

serhioromano wrote:There should be defensively wrong with hardware.
Most likely not: There are dozens and dozens of community members operating TS-x51, TS-x53 Pro, or TS-x53A series NAS models on third party RAM modules including 2 * 2 GB, 2 * 4 GB and beyond of the specs 2 * 8 GB modules - and most likely many more not actively posting on the QNAP fora. Leaving really incompatible SO-DIMM modules alone, the majority of issues are caused by bad module insertion, and could be fixed easily.

My TS-451 does operate on a pair of Kingston KVR16LS11/4 (PC12600/1600 MHz capable) modules for about two years these days, clocked at 1333 MHz. Other community members run pairs of Kingston KVR16LS11/8 for a total of 16 GB. More users confirm success using the similar Crucial kit.

===

alguti2000 wrote:Also, I'm still to replicate the issue when only 2GB of RAM is installed. The issue happens all the time when 8GB are installed, regardless of whether in a single model 8GB, or two 4GB modules, or if the memory is from Samsung or the one that QNAP sells.


In this case its a case for the QNAP Customer Service.

serhioromano
Starting out
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:40 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by serhioromano » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:46 pm

schumaku wrote:My TS-451 does operate on a pair of Kingston KVR16LS11/4 (PC12600/1600 MHz capable) modules for about two years these days, clocked at 1333 MHz.


I cannot even find 12600 local market. Only 12800. Will that work?

User avatar
schumaku
Guru
Posts: 43673
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Kloten (Zurich), Switzerland -- Skype: schumaku
Contact:

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by schumaku » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:48 am

It's 12800 of course - typo.

KVR16LS11/4
4GB 1Rx8 512M x 64-Bit PC3L-12800
CL11 204-Pin SODIMM

or

KVR16LS11/8
8GB 2Rx8 1G x 64-Bit PC3L-12800
CL11 204-Pin SODIMM

Sorry for the confusion.

roe-dk
First post
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:47 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by roe-dk » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:12 am

I have had the exact same issue on my TS-451A, and have done almost exactly what you have in troubleshooting.

I bought the first unit a couple of weeks ago, and after the first week I sent it back for a replacement as bay 3+4 kept going down whenever I added a 4th disk.
The problem persisted with the original 2x1GB memory as well as with 1x8GB memory, and regardless of the order of the disks (swapping disk 1 and 3 f.x. didn't make a difference).

After 2 faulty units in a row, I suspected my diagnostics skill may not be what I thought them to be (despite, like you, working with the stuff on a daily basis) so I contacted QNap support.

I notified QNap support that my fourth disk (WD Green, Sandisk SSD, Intel SSD and Samsung SSD were tested) was not on the compatibility list, but the other 3 disks were (WD Red 3TB).
Besides, a non-compatibel disk should cause problems for it self. Not tear down the neighbouring disk as well.
At no time was it suggested by QNap that disks not on the official compatibility list should cause the problems.

They then suggested (in a commendable fast response) that I updated the BIOS of the NAS (create bootable USB stick, copy https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ipct ... sp=sharing, hold down F2 while starting and set boot order to USB first). But that didn't solve the problem either, though the release notes does state something about bay 3+4 issues.
QNap has concluded the hardware must be faulty and advised me to have it replaced or sent to repair.

Right now I'm concidering sending it back for yet another replacement/repair (third times a charm?), or just a refund and go look at a similar Synology instead. Unfortunately I really like the QNap... if it just worked as expected :-/

If you try setting up just 3 of your disks in bay1-3 in a RAID 5 you'll most likely find that the NAS will function flawlessly (File shares, FTP- and webservice, Google drive sync, virtualization station etc).... right up until you plug in the 4th disk and restart the NAS (or just wait a while). Then bay 3+4 will go down again.

I even tried Bay1,2,4 and that seemed to work fine as well, untill I plugged in a disk in bay 3. Then 3+4 crashed again.
All the disks I've tried with have completed both the QNap Complete Test, as well as tests by their respective manufacturers test software, without issues.

I'd dare say this pattern is not consistent with any faulty memory I've seen before ;)

nkildal
Starting out
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:45 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by nkildal » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:04 pm

Hi

I have run into the exact same problems:

QNAP TS-451A-2G (2GB RAM) bought in november 2016, running QTS 4.2.2 latest stable
4 x 4TB Western Digital Red (WD40EFRX)
Additional 2 x 4GB RAM - Corsair VS SO DDR3-1600 DC, CMSO8GX3M2C1600C11

I exchanged the built-in 2GB RAM at arrival for the 2x4GB Corsair RAM.
NAS booted fine, with no issues at all.
Defined a Raid-5 array with only the first 3 disks (as I needed the 4th disk for data transfer from another system).
The Raid initialized as it should, I defined a single volume on it, and successfully transfered my data to it, with no issues at all.

I then inserted the 4th disk in bay 4:
Within 3-4 minutes the NAS reported drive 4 AND 3 being offline, and the Raid being degraded.
Pulling both drives 3+4 out, and reinserting drive 3 did not help - the NAS could not see any drives being inserted in bay 3.
Rebooting the NAS with disk 1,2 and 3 inserted, seemed to have the NAS recognize all 3 disks again - and Raid rebuild started.

After rebuild was complete, I tried pulling out disk 3 from bay 3 - wait until the NAS recognized it - put disk 4 into bay 3 - and waited for the rebuild to finish.
It did so without any issues - everything seemed fine. I thus concluded the disk 4 (now running fine in bay 3) was not defect.

I then inserted disk 3 into bay 4:
Within 3-4 minutes the NAS reported drive 4 AND 3 being offline, and the Raid being degraded.
Same as before - only a reboot of the NAS, made it recognize a drive in bay 3 - rebuilding commenced and succeeded.

I since tried upgrading the QTS to 4.3.2 0026, but with the same result:
Everytime a disk was inserted into bay 4 - the NAS reported disks in bay 3+4 missing after a couple of minutes.

I also pulled disks 3 and 4, inserted each of them in a separate PC and used WD's tool to do a full SMART and surface test of the disks - with no errors to be found.

SOLUTION:
I finally came across these threads yesterday - hinting at this issue occuring when running more/other than the original 2GB's of RAM in the NAS.
I immediately tried replacing the 2x4GB Corsair RAM with the original 2X1GB and it seems to have solved the issues:
The NAS has now run for 24 hours with all 4 drive bays populated - no errors occuring at all...

I have a hard time understanding what might be the cause of this - perhaps something BIOS related - or perhaps the Corsair RAM I chose is not compliant?
However the issue also seems to occur for other posters with genuine 2x4GB QNAP RAM....

Due to me not having bought genuine QNAP 2x4GB RAM modules, I have not (yet) raised a support ticket with QNAP...

Regards
Nicolai, Denmark

User avatar
ximmix69
New here
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:28 pm

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by ximmix69 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:37 pm

In my case I bought my TS-451A with 8GB (2x4GB Crucial memory modules installed by the seller).
The issue is the same than the rest, I can initialize the NAS with 4 3TB WD Red and 1 3TB WD Green Caviar, create the volume with RAID5, install apps, create shared folders and upload my data.
After switching off and power on, disc 3 and 4 appears as disconnected and the volume damaged without option to recovering. I changed the discs between the slots and after trying all the combinations, definetively is not a HDD error or compatibility issue.

I'm in contact with QNAP Helpdesk, waiting for a solution. They wrote me there was another incident with TS-451A and ampliated memory.

In my case and don't have the original 2GB memory modules to test but after reading this post it seems is the same issue.

nkildal
Starting out
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:45 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by nkildal » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:15 am

Hi ximmix69

Please see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=182&t=126032
I so far seem to have fixed my problems by using other RAM modules...

/Nicolai

trevor63
New here
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:17 am

Re: TS-451A Potential Issues After Adding Memory

Post by trevor63 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:44 pm

I have had similar issues. I have a TS-451A with 4x WD 10TB Red drives and I have issues with the drives in slots 3 & 4 only when I have more than the default 2GB of ram installed. I am on the latest firmware (20170703) and have tried multiple brands of RAM as well, most recently ADATA modules which are similar (if not the same) as the Qnap ones. I have tried with one module and two modules. It only seems to work okay with the original 2GB.

The issue with mine is that upon reboot, the drives in slots 3 & 4 always go inactive. However, everything works perfectly if I shutdown and power on.

Post Reply

Return to “Hardware & Software Compatibility”