TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

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bitlifter
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TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by bitlifter »

I purchased the TVS-473 8GB version about a week ago and just upgraded to 32GB of RAM. I bought Crucial 32GB Kit (16GBx2) DDR4 2400 MT/s (PC4-19200) DR x8 Unbuffered SODIMM 260-Pin Memory - CT2K16G4SFD824A. It booted up fine and registered 32GB of RAM, but after running " dmidecode --type 17 " in an ssh terminal, I noticed the memory only coming up at 1866Mhz. this is peculiar because RAM upgrade kits are listed as DDR4 2133Mhz and the AMD Merlin-Falcon SoC chipset is capable of DDR4 2400Mhz. Is anyone else running at 1866Mhz? Anyone seeing 2133Mhz or 2400Mhz if you upgrade? Is there a way to force the bios to run at higher speeds or has QNAP intentionally reduced clock speeds due to thermal issues? :

Array Handle: 0x0051
Error Information Handle: Not Provided
Total Width: 64 bits
Data Width: 64 bits
Size: 16384 MB
Form Factor: SODIMM
Set: None
Locator: DIMM 1
Bank Locator: CHANNEL B
Type: <OUT OF SPEC>
Type Detail: Synchronous Unbuffered (Unregistered)
Speed: 2400 MHz
Manufacturer: <BAD INDEX>
Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
Asset Tag: <BAD INDEX>
Part Number: <BAD INDEX>
Rank: 2
Configured Clock Speed: 1866 MHz
bitlifter
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by bitlifter »

So, just in case anyone was wondering... I re-installed the original memory that came with the box. I then re-ran dmidecode --type 17 and it turns out that even though they spec 2133Mhz, it appears they have the RAM downclocked to 1866Mhz. Kind of lame considering the chipset supports up to 2400Mhz. I'm going to open up a ticket anyways just to confirm this isn't a bug or defective box. Here's my output with the OEM (Kingston) memory:
Handle 0x0054, DMI type 17, 40 bytes
Memory Device
Array Handle: 0x0051
Error Information Handle: Not Provided
Total Width: 64 bits
Data Width: 64 bits
Size: 4096 MB
Form Factor: SODIMM
Set: None
Locator: DIMM 1
Bank Locator: CHANNEL B
Type: <OUT OF SPEC>
Type Detail: Synchronous Unbuffered (Unregistered)
Speed: 2133 MHz
Manufacturer: <BAD INDEX>
Serial Number: FFFFFFFF
Asset Tag: <BAD INDEX>
Part Number: <BAD INDEX>
Rank: 1
Configured Clock Speed: 1866 MHz
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Trexx
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by Trexx »

I checked with a contact at Qnap. This is an AMD limitation that occurs when running in a 4 DIMM slot configuration.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.5.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x1TB SK Hynix Gold
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB & TS-228a Offline[/color]
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bitlifter
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by bitlifter »

Ok... I'm a bit skeptical about that answer from support but even still, I'm only running the factory installed 2 x 4GB DDR4 2133Mhz RAM which is also only running at 1866Mhz. Why do they sell 2133Mhz RAM (very VERY overpriced memory btw) and then downclock it? Memory at that price should be able to run at full speed. Does anyone know of any overclocking utilities for the TVS-473 chipset? The difference between 1866Mhz and 2400Mhz is roughly 8.4GB/s of bandwidth so it's a non-trivial hit in performance. Btw, Anandtech did a great write up on the chipset when it launched back in the end of 2015:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9726/amd- ... r4-support
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by RobbieG »

Trexx wrote:I checked with a contact at Qnap. This is an AMD limitation that occurs when running in a 4 DIMM slot configuration.
What do you mean by this? If you are using all 4 DIMM slots, the max speed is 1866MHz? (Doesn't seem to be the case here, since he is currently only using 2/4 slots)
Or if there are 4 total DIMM slots, the max speed is 1866MHz, regardless of number being used?
Or you can only get to 2400 MHz if you use all 4 DIMM slots?
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Trexx
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by Trexx »

bitlifter wrote:Ok... I'm a bit skeptical about that answer from support but even still, I'm only running the factory installed 2 x 4GB DDR4 2133Mhz RAM which is also only running at 1866Mhz. Why do they sell 2133Mhz RAM (very VERY overpriced memory btw) and then downclock it? Memory at that price should be able to run at full speed. Does anyone know of any overclocking utilities for the TVS-473 chipset? The difference between 1866Mhz and 2400Mhz is roughly 8.4GB/s of bandwidth so it's a non-trivial hit in performance. Btw, Anandtech did a great write up on the chipset when it launched back in the end of 2015:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9726/amd- ... r4-support
This information did NOT come from support, but an internal PM in QNAP. My understanding is that memory bandwidth limit is due to having 4 DIMM slots (regardless of whether they are populated or not).

Also if you look at REAL WORLD benchmarks, the actually performance difference in most cases between DDR4 2133 vs. 2400 is generally very minimal. http://techbuyersguru.com/gaming-ddr4-m ... 6gb?page=0

Remember, this is a NAS, not a gaming PC :)
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.5.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x1TB SK Hynix Gold
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB & TS-228a Offline[/color]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq
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Trexx
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by Trexx »

RobbieG wrote:
Trexx wrote:I checked with a contact at Qnap. This is an AMD limitation that occurs when running in a 4 DIMM slot configuration.
What do you mean by this? If you are using all 4 DIMM slots, the max speed is 1866MHz? (Doesn't seem to be the case here, since he is currently only using 2/4 slots)
Or if there are 4 total DIMM slots, the max speed is 1866MHz, regardless of number being used?
Or you can only get to 2400 MHz if you use all 4 DIMM slots?
Based on the information given to me, my understanding is the answer is #2: If there are 4 total DIMM slots, the max speed is 1866MHz, regardless of number being used
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.5.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x1TB SK Hynix Gold
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB & TS-228a Offline[/color]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq
EsEnZeT
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by EsEnZeT »

I see same numbers with 2 slots occupied with default ram sticks, what is the point of this downclocking?
Is there really no way to bump the limit?
MrCaringi
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by MrCaringi »

So, I want to buy a QNAP NAS (I got a SYnology), I like the 473e,

But, if the AMD architecture in limiting the RAM speed, should look for a Intel based model?

Does it really matter the Ram speed difference?
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dolbyman
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by dolbyman »

what exactly do you want to do with the unit ?
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by Seb-de »

bitlifter wrote: Sat May 20, 2017 10:00 am Hi,
Late to the party but I just checked on my TVS-873 8G and I get the same result similar to yours:
RAM Speed 2133 but configured clock speed 1866
I am planning to extend the memory with 2*8Go at 2400 cause it is less expensive than 2133. so configuration would be 2x4Go 2133 + 2x8Go 2400
Do you think I can mix 2133 and 2400 ? I would say yes because the system clock is 1866 but maybe I am missing something here.
Thanks for your advise
Sébastien
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dolbyman
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by dolbyman »

you messed up your post here..what are you replying to?
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Toxic17
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by Toxic17 »

just curious is the original memory, single rank, or dual rank memory?
Regards Simon

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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by Toxic17 »

its ok just found this great review on the 473:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/qnap ... -4g/5.html

it should the memory module as this: Apacer 78.A2GF7.4000B

Image

mouse sell these, and have a full datasheet on them.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/24 ... 959377.pdf

Specifications:
♦ On-DIMM thermal sensor : No
♦ Organization: 256 words x 64 bits, 1 rank
♦ Integrating 4 pieces of 4G bits DDR4 SDRAM sealed FBGA
♦ Package: 260-pin socket type small outline dual in-line memory module
(SO-DIMM)
♦ PCB: height 30.00 mm, lead pitch 0.50 mm (pin),
♦ Serial Presence Detect (SPD)
♦ Power Supply: VDD=1.2V (1.14V to 1.26V)
♦ VDDQ = 1.2V (1.14V to 1.26V)
♦ VPP = 2.5V (2.375V to 2.75V)
♦ VDDSPD = 2.2V to 3.6V
♦ 16 internal banks (4 Bank Groups)
♦ CAS Latency (CL): 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
♦ CAS Write Latency (CWL): 12,16
♦ Average refresh period
7.8us at 0°C TC 85°C ≦ ≦
3.9us at 85°C TC 95°C ≦ ≦
♦ Lead-free (RoHS compliant)
♦ Halogen free

please note this is "single" rank. this is not the same a "Single" or "Dual" channel.
Regards Simon

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NAS: TS-673A QuTS hero h5.1.2.2534 • TS-121 4.3.3.2420 • APC Back-UPS ES 700G
Network: VM Hub3: 500/50 • UniFi UDM Pro: 3.2.9 • UniFi Network Controller: 8.0.28
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Re: TVS-473 RAM only running at 1866Mhz?

Post by philippe.mande »

Hi,

I am not near my TS-x73 ... so my remarks are theoretical :lol:

Did you check the BIOS/EFI menu ?

In a second hand, don't expect large performance difference ... in fact not visible (except for specific program, specially build to manage itself the usage based on memory frequency) if you compare 1833 vs. 2133/2400
This is linked to :
Kernel parameters set by QNAP (with priority for cache, program or ... )
Program nice value (ex. HD_Station)
Bios level and management (so mother board)

Linux order / priority for performance management attached to hardware (so not limited by LOT of applications) is :
1) max out of all slots (when sharing)
2) max capacity (compare to request)
3) minimum latency
4) frequency
SO frequency is use for performance, only if no bottleneck exist before, if value tested before are higher than request ... nothing is done for frequency ...

Memory size available is a better things to increase performance (ex. 8 vs 4 or 32 vs. 16)
Remember also that same memory size (and characteristics) can help you to get dual channel, when ANY not synchronized value ... return you to single channel mod EVEN you have two banks (seem similar but with a small difference (CAS for ex.).

So if you not use RAMdisk or large computing tools (high performance) ... no difference will be really (out specified benchmark) visible.

Philippe.
New pseudo for Father_Mande (now closed) ...
QNAP TS-x53 Pro, TVS-x73, TS-x31+, TS-x28A DEAD ... and some oldest under Debian ... etc.
Asustor AS5002T ; AS1002T ... etc.
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