Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

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casw1000
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Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by casw1000 »

Hi All.

I have decided to rebuild my qnap with 1 real goal to get better performance. Now, dont get me wrong, the performance is ok, but not where I expect it to be. To be clear, I feel some of the performance is down to my own cheapness, meaning, I purchased the NAS, then basically used drives that I had from older NAS units. So there is a real mixture of drives, which I do know is less than a good idea. But all my budget was spent on the 1288X itself.

So just now, i bought 4x 18TB EXOS X18's with the view to rebuild the NAS from scratch and build this the right way. I have all my data backed up on to various 16 & 14TB USB drives, which is my backup plan should something go wrong at NAS level.

What else is my issue? Well, I recently got fed up with Wifey complaining about never finding photos etc. We have around 500,000 or so photos over the years from scans, mobile phones etc etc. I put around 80K photos into a folder and setup QuMagie and AI-Core, plus the other apps [photo stn, video stn, mm console,Cayin MediaSign ]. But my pain was how slow QuMagie was generating thumb nails, and the whole experience of managing these photos. I check the NAS processor and its not even 10%, ram is close to 50%.

So, why does the NAS feel so sluggish at times and doing things like the Thumbnail generation not use the CPU. I never see the CPU get used hard.

My Goal - To have the most responsive Plex server. Use apps such as Photo Management that is both user friendly and responsive. All other network stuff, QVRPro, VM Station etc, is second priority, I can live with slower performance, but as a rule, these apps are fine.

Current Build
Qnap: TVS-h1288X
Ram: 80GB
Storage Pool 1 [System] 2x 1TB (R1) Samsung 870QVO mirror SSD's [All app except those mentioned below]
Storage Pool 2 [Data] 4x 8TB (R5) Plex Libraries, Backup Target
Storage Pool 5 [Data] 1x 1.9TB M.2 SSD - AI-Core & Plex Media Server. iSCSI Lun, photo library and some VM_Machines [Virtual Station]
QNAP QM2-2P10G1TA [Cache Acc Mode ALL I/O] 1x 512GB SSD - note, this appears to be running in Gen.2x2 (1GB/s) mode. So this could be another upgrade path to a newer controller say QM2-4P-384 with 4x 1TB installed?

TL-D800C - Expansion Unit (via USB-C)
Storage Pool 3 [Data] 5x 4TB (R5) Plex Libraries
Storage Pool 4 [Data] 2x 3TB (R1) Photo Backup Snapshots, Software Repo, Music Library
Storage Pool 6 [QVRPro] 1x 2TB (JBOD) QVR storage space.

Total usable storage is 41TB, in use is 32TB. I had to archive around 15TB to external backup USB drives as I was running low on space, and then I got moans from the family plex users. :roll:

New Build
Storage Pool 1 [System] 1.9TB [M.2 Slot1] All APPS
Storage Pool 2 [Cache] 1TB [M.2 Slot2] Mode: ALL I/O
Storage Pool 3 [Plex Library] 4x 18TB (R5) All Plex Libraries
Storage Pool 4 [Data] 4x 8TB All other shares

TL-D800C - Expansion Unit (via USB-C)
Storage Pool 5 [QVRPRO] 2x 4TB (R1) CCTV Only.

Discard older mixed drives from NAS.

Are my ideas sound? Am I focusing in the wrong places? I am looking towards Dolbyman, Bob and anyone else who is running a high spec QuTS NAS.
PS, I am staying clear of QuTS 5.x at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to read over. I do appreciate the time you take to comment back.
Colin.
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dolbyman
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by dolbyman »

I would say..maximise your storage..and minimize your overhead
Buy two NVME for the system and then max all identical HDD as large as you want to afford. Create a single RAID accross all disks (you cannot add disks to it on ZFS)

Create shares for all your different types of usage (movies, photos, nvr,etc)

Use apps to sort your photos (Adobe or any other) and forget any of the QNAP stuff (video,photo,whatnot station)

I am looking to buy a larger QuTS NAS next year ..and that is my plan so far as well
casw1000
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by casw1000 »

Thanks mate appreciate your feedback. I wish I could purchase another 4 18's, whilst I got a good price (IMO) for these, its still a sizeable chunk for leisure purposes (family and my own tech fun stuff).
Use apps to sort your photos (Adobe or any other) and forget any of the QNAP stuff (video,photo,whatnot station)
This is an interesting point. I am not aware of other apps, but my use case is this. My wife and I can upload via mobiles / devices to a central place and then easily manage, share print etc from the server. How do others here store/manage their digital life? Keeping in mind, my wife is completely not techie so I am really looking for a nice user friendly setup. Welcome your ideas.

Re your future upgrade plan. I was holding out in 2020 for a desktop Ryzen 3000 series cpu setup, like many, we kept waiting and waiting... but nothing apart from rack mounts. The Xeon in my 1288 is ok, but not spectacular, and I have come to hope that maybe Qnap can bring something special to the market for the more hard core enthusiast / user. My small do it all TS-453b died unexpectedly and I was forced into making a commitment, I knew I could not wait any longer and that these 12288/1688 was my destiny. Just wish the hardware was a little more cutting edge.

I have also shared my drive performance stats.
Cheers, Colin.
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dolbyman
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by dolbyman »

If you are not dead set on QuTS ..I think these units also work with QTS, where you can grow RAID arrays by adding disks later. Mixing several arrays with different sizes will cost you RAID overhead for each instead of once overall.

In terms of orher photo apps..there was a discussion a year ago what to use instead, there was also freeware alternatives.(have to look for that thread ..I think it was https://www.digikam.org/)

In terms of central point for uploads...never do that unprotected via port forwards, but I guess you know that
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Cbrad01
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by Cbrad01 »

I have the 1288h close to the same specs, but with 128 GB ram and I upgraded the CPU.
Overall performance has been great, but I rebuilt several times. I tried both OSs, with and without caching and so on.
I found that any type of caching actually slowed things down. My desk pool layouts did not seem to make any noticeable performance issue outside of: 1) keeping the OS on a M2, and most Apps on a SSD 2) keeping the plex app and data on a M2 3) VM are on SSDs 4) container data is on SSDs. All of my data is on raid 5 pool or mirrored drives. For the SSD pools I choose single drives to avoid the overhead of raid. The container data and VMs are backed-up to disk and all data is then backed up to a second NAS.
Again caching always hurt my performance as home users very rarely was there a cache hit. I run 6 VMs and 5 containers, plus plex and a few other apps. About a month ago I decided to make a leap and rebuilt with 5.x Hero as with the same layout as above and things were actually very snappy until…
I hit the problem with the zfs cache using all of the system ram leaving nothing for the OS or any other application.
Overall I have found the NAS to be a very good system that I push hard and has always handled it like a champ.
When I build my NAS, (running several) my build always favors performance over data safety (meaning I only use data protecting raids where I need to) otherwise I use raid 0 or single disks. I relay on hourly / daily data backups for data to a second NAS that favors data storage and integrity over performance as it’s job is to protect the data.
My 1288 is built to work fast and does a great job. Outside of the zfs cache problem in 5 she has been a great performer.


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casw1000
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by casw1000 »

dolbyman wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:29 pm If you are not dead set on QuTS ..I think these units also work with QTS, where you can grow RAID arrays by adding disks later. Mixing several arrays with different sizes will cost you RAID overhead for each instead of once overall.

In terms of orher photo apps..there was a discussion a year ago what to use instead, there was also freeware alternatives.(have to look for that thread ..I think it was https://www.digikam.org/)

In terms of central point for uploads...never do that unprotected via port forwards, but I guess you know that
Thanks for that info. Uploads will only be local, I dont like remote access of any kind without vpn's and all those usual methods. But its a good point for those reading this.
casw1000
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by casw1000 »

Cbrad01 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:33 pm I have the 1288h close to the same specs, but with 128 GB ram and I upgraded the CPU.
Overall performance has been great, but I rebuilt several times. I tried both OSs, with and without caching and so on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for your detailed feedback, very interesting. I did find that Plex would be sluggish until I started using cache, if I fast forward or back in the film or tv, I would end up waiting for the server to catch up. I also used to get "the server is not fast enough" types of errors. But once I did the SSD cache, I never saw that error again.

I like the cpu upgrade and I assume that you got the W-1290? maybe. I keep looking for those, but in the US you can get them, but here in the UK, they are just not listed. I did think of finding a 1290, then add a AIO water cooler with push/pull fans. Would love to hear / see pics of your upgraded cpu.

Cheers, Colin.
casw1000
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by casw1000 »

So it's rebuild day. I am waiting for the delivery of my 2x 1tb nvme drives, these will be created as a mirror and replace the 1.96tb in place at the moment. I have backed up all my data to ensure I have everything saved and this was a slow process to be honest. Now that I am happy I have all my data backed up, I have started to delete everything. You could argue, why bother? as a new install should give the option to format and start again. BUT, I dont want any traces of the old data / shares etc, so I am doing a full clean up, before I build again.

The build will be done in two phases. 1. Install the 2x 1tb nvme's, remove all other hard disks from the system, then power on and get the base OS installed. 2. I will then upgrade to QuTS hero h5.0.0.1892 Build 20211222. I have seen a build .1900 but I dont see anything that applies to my 1288x nas.

Once the new Version 5 os is up and running, I will then look to install all the hard drives and start building the shared folders. I can then eventually start restoring all my data back to the shares.

Fingers crossed, it all goes well.
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a13antichrist
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by a13antichrist »

I'll race you. I'm expanding my 4-disk R5 the slow/lazy way, disk by disk.. unfair comparison in some way since I'll be done as soon as the RAID rebuilds, while file/folder configuration will be extra steps on your side.. then again, that's exactly why I chose this method heh. Am interested to see if you get all your data back on before my rebuilds finish..


casw1000 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:50 pm I did find that Plex would be sluggish until I started using cache, if I fast forward or back in the film or tv, I would end up waiting for the server to catch up. I also used to get "the server is not fast enough" types of errors. But once I did the SSD cache, I never saw that error again.

I like the cpu upgrade and I assume that you got the W-1290? maybe. I keep looking for those, but in the US you can get them, but here in the UK, they are just not listed. I did think of finding a 1290, then add a AIO water cooler with push/pull fans. Would love to hear / see pics of your upgraded cpu.

Cheers, Colin.
Funnily enough this is somewhat in keeping with the app recommendations: I know Plex is useful, good product etc but why demand extra from your NAS which is going to be far more expensive (due to parts limitations, QNAP-branded/supported etc) and not give you as flexible options? My move was to build an ITX with Ryzen APU, and thin-mini-itx even smaller if you don't mind Intel. Then you load Windows or linux and Plex for Windows or Kodi or both and leave the NAS to do its storage-focussed tasks. Yes 'all-in-one' is a great convenience but it also comes down to "Jack of all trades, master of none". So And a small PC box has significant flexibility that the NAS just can't offer. I do use mine for Container station and a couple of networking tools (transmission torrent server, looking at piHole) but user/family apps I leave to Windows (or Windows-like Ubuntu, though that hasn't proven girlfriend-immune yet heh). Added bonus over the same idea with smart TV or Chromecast is that the Windows PC very easily blocks YouTube ads as well, which is why I have been lethargic with my piHole installation - blocking YT ads on the smart tv was 90% of my requirement.
So in general my thought would be: use a dedicated device for each task, as much as feasible/efficient.
[I also have routing separated from client switching, but that's probably going overboard for most people hehe. ]
TVS-871 @ 58tb formatted R6, Mellanox MCX312b 10Gbe,
R9 5950x || RTX3090 || 64Gb 3600Mhz || Intel X520 10Gbe
MbP M1 Max || 32C GPU || 64Gb || QNAP T310G1S SFP+ 10Gbe
R3 2200G mini HTPC
Mikrotik switches & routers
OpenWRT & DD-WRT wifi
casw1000
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by casw1000 »

Quick update. Once I made sure everything was backed on to my external drives, I removed all drives from the system and installed just the 2x1GB nvme's. The build was painless and tbh straight forward. Putting the data back has been the most (expected) time process. BUT, I had basically created the new shared folders on QuTS, then just started a smb copy / paste in that method. I knew it would take a very long time, but only today, I noticed something that I dont think is related to QNAP, but more so, my Ubiquiti network. Since that really bad Log4J vulnerability was in the wild, I upgraded my Ub network to make sure it was patched, only today, I spotted that my network copies to the qnap appear to be quite limited to around a 1gig connection. So before I try and copy the last 10tb of backed up data to the 1288x, I am going to spend a bit of time, with iperf and figure out where the real speed issue is. I honestly dont think its qnap, and having copied 1tb of data from a USB3 drive to a local ssd and getting a solid 250MB of performance, this suggests my issue is def network related. Oh well.

Good luck on the slow method a13antichrist :-)

**Edit, I just found another thread where someone was getting limited transfer speed. I'll review there tests and try to replicate them. I will share some results once I figure it out.
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a13antichrist
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by a13antichrist »

I'm literally waiting on the final Volume expansion right now. So I'm done in ~30 mins or so. Folder structure & permissions & everything ;)

Ohh I spoke too soon. I *am* done now. Fully completed, for the current R5 (4) replacement.
How is yours looking? ;)
TVS-871 @ 58tb formatted R6, Mellanox MCX312b 10Gbe,
R9 5950x || RTX3090 || 64Gb 3600Mhz || Intel X520 10Gbe
MbP M1 Max || 32C GPU || 64Gb || QNAP T310G1S SFP+ 10Gbe
R3 2200G mini HTPC
Mikrotik switches & routers
OpenWRT & DD-WRT wifi
Aqualizard
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by Aqualizard »

Cbrad01 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:33 pm I have the 1288h close to the same specs, but with 128 GB ram and I upgraded the CPU.
I would also like to hear what you upgraded the CPU to.
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by Aqualizard »

I first built my pools back in August when I got the TVS-h1688X and as I've been filling it up with data, I've discovered that transfer speeds are abysmal. Internal, external, doesn't matter. So it's an internal issue. I've seen posts where there was a fix issued in a version of firmware and that one needs to rebuild the pools on an updated firmware version. I don't know what version my firmware was when I first made the pools, but I'm assuming it was the version that this was a problem. I'm on the latest firmware now and in the process of moving data to rebuild the NAS. I'm hoping this fixes the slow transfer speed problem of about 30MB/s that I'm averaging.

I currently have a single RAID-TP for the HDDs and will be moving that to 2 RAID-5s, one for dedicated media and the other for overflow user storage and backups (6 drives each) with two SSDs in RAID-0 for users and two for cache. Will be using two NVMe for System in RAID-1. However, before I finalize with the RAID-5 pools, I'm going to test RAID-6 across the entire set of HDDs to see if I get adequate performance. If so, that would be preferred to split 5's and provides future flexibility without needing to rebuild pools.

Casw1000 and a13antichrist, I'm interested in hearing about you transfer speeds after the changes.
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by Aqualizard »

casw1000 wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:22 pm **Edit, I just found another thread where someone was getting limited transfer speed. I'll review there tests and try to replicate them. I will share some results once I figure it out.
Link?
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Re: Rebuilding my TVS-h1288X

Post by a13antichrist »

Aqualizard wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:10 am
Casw1000 and a13antichrist, I'm interested in hearing about you transfer speeds after the changes.
Nothing scientific, just a quick couple of windows copies to test, using a 108Gb file. As Windows does, the reported speeds hop around a little bit. But generally speaking:
Raid-5:
~500MB/s write
500-550Mb/s read (more fluctuation I would say).

Raid-10:
350-400 Mb/s write
~450 on the read (very steady).
TVS-871 @ 58tb formatted R6, Mellanox MCX312b 10Gbe,
R9 5950x || RTX3090 || 64Gb 3600Mhz || Intel X520 10Gbe
MbP M1 Max || 32C GPU || 64Gb || QNAP T310G1S SFP+ 10Gbe
R3 2200G mini HTPC
Mikrotik switches & routers
OpenWRT & DD-WRT wifi
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