TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

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matchframe
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TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by matchframe » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:38 pm

I'm having an issue where I cannot copy or write in general on a shared location using thunderbolt networking on TVS-882T.
I can read successfully using high speeds (>400MB/s) but writing or pasting a file almost make explorer to crash.
It shows the paste dialog and does nothing at all. I have to click on cancel to be able to use the NAS again after 4 minutes or disable the thunderbolt networking adapter and re-enable it.
This happened after updating to Windows 10 Pro 1903 (May 2019 Update) from 1809.
My NAS has no problem at all if I use the normal gigabit networking but I need the high speed of thunderbolt.
I've tried literally everything.
From updating drivers to downgrading my NAS firmware to see if that helps.

My Computer Specs are:

NAS: TVS-882T (Over Thunderbolt 2)
Firmware: 4.3.6.0993 (Also tested on 4.3.6.0895 and 4.4.1.1031 PB4)
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1903 (May 2019 Update)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Designare X299 (With TB3)
Cable: I'm using a Thunderbolt 2 cable with a TB2 to TB3 adapter from Apple.
I'm on latest motherboard BIOS (F4), and also on latest Thunderbolt Drivers (1.41.645.0) from Intel's website.
I've also tried with the motherboard provided drivers (older version) without success.

Again, this only happened after updating Windows. It worked perfectly well before. So I guess it's firmware related issue.

Could you please assist me to help solve this issue? It is very important to use the high speed provided by Thunderbolt Networking as we use it for video storage in our video editing workflow.

I've also opened a ticket with QNAP support.

Thanks,
Angelos Michalopoulos

matchframe
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by matchframe » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm

I forgot to mention that I also use a Promise Pegasus2 R6 SCSI raid box over thunderbolt 2 with no issues at all.

Also, Googling my issue I found other users having the same issue
https://superuser.com/questions/1452466 ... ok/1458395

matchframe
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by matchframe » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:25 pm

Here is a video demonstrating my issue.
https://client.matchframe.gr:2000/share ... pen=normal

My first try is to read/write to a mapped drive (X:) (qnap share folder) over thunderbolt networking (20.0.0.2).
My second try is to read/write to a mapped drive (Q:) (same qnap share folder) over gigabit networking which works fine.

Bob Zelin
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by Bob Zelin » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:55 am

Hi -
purchase a QNAP QXG-10G1T for your wonderful Gigabyte X299 motherboard. It's $89.
You will get great results. You connect between your 10G port on your Gigabyte with the QXG-10G1T and the built in 10G ports
on the TVS-882T, and you will get crazy fast speeds.

So - why does this not work with your Thunderbolt connection - I DONT CARE. I am telling you the way to fix this for $89 with 10G ethernet and a cheap Cat 6 cable.

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

matchframe
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by matchframe » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:24 pm

Bob Zelin wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:55 am
Hi -
purchase a QNAP QXG-10G1T for your wonderful Gigabyte X299 motherboard. It's $89.
You will get great results. You connect between your 10G port on your Gigabyte with the QXG-10G1T and the built in 10G ports
on the TVS-882T, and you will get crazy fast speeds.

So - why does this not work with your Thunderbolt connection - I DONT CARE. I am telling you the way to fix this for $89 with 10G ethernet and a cheap Cat 6 cable.

Bob Zelin
Bob, You are joking, right?

Bob Zelin
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by Bob Zelin » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:24 am

I bet that Angelos Michalopoulos knows Nikos Papadopoulo

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

billheil
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by billheil » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:19 am

Hi Matchframe,
I am experiencing exactly the same issue.
Did you ever resolve this?

My specs
My Computer Specs are:
NAS: TS-453BT3
Firmware: 4.4.1.1086
OS: Windows 10 Home 1903 OS Build 18362.418
Motherboard: Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 Firmware F14
Cable: I'm using a Thunderbolt 3 cable
I'm on latest motherboard BIOS (F14), and also on latest Thunderbolt Drivers (17.4.77.5) from Intel's website (Driver date 5/16/2018)

HiTach
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by HiTach » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:32 am

I just tried Thunderbolt networking from an HP workstation laptop to my TVS-872XT

Direct TB - TB networking, laptop to NAS, gives 250/1000MB/s W/R performance, but transfers do complete.

Using the QNAP T310G1T adapter to the 10Gbe port on the NAS I can read at 1000 MB/s but writing just hangs. AJA manages to display the first write burst speed as 850 MB/s, but hangs up.
TB may be sensitive to cables, I have 40Gb certified cables, and also the QNAP short TB cable provided with the T310G1T - no differences.

Desktop access to the same device over Mellanox 40Gbe network cards gives smooth 1200/1900 MB/s W/R rates, so the RAID drive array is not the limiting factor.
I am looking for ~1000 MB/s each way.

Today I spoke to QNAP support who says their engineers are talking to Microsoft who know about this issue with Windows 1903, current recommendation is rollback to Windows version 1809 (or wait ...).
Workstation DAS/NAS: TVS-872X(T) *Thunderbolt card removed due to Windows10 1909 bug
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB static volume
2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus R/W RAID1 cache w/EK WB M.2 heatsinks + 2x NB 12-P fans
1x40Gbe Mellanox DAS network connection, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
Backup NAS: TVS-872XT
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB Thick volume w/snapshots
1x40Gbe Qnap Thunderbolt 3 card, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
LAN switch 10Gbe(2)/1Gbe(8) NETGEAR Nighthawk SX10 (GS810EMX)

savethebologna
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by savethebologna » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:18 am

With the release of 1909, I decided to update the rig that connects over Thunderbolt to 1903. Whoops. Spent all day troubleshooting why all of a sudden I couldn't upload anything larger than a few MBs over Thunderbolt 3 on the TVS-872XT. Eventually I found this thread and lo and behold, it is indeed not an issue after rolling back to 1809. I tried on a secondary machine and 1909 fares no better than 1903. Hoping this gets fixed, but it seems like its been an issue for some people for quite a while. Best!

HiTach
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by HiTach » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:45 am

I tried the November 1909 Windows update also hoping that things would improve.
Still tracking things down, but a desktop with ASUS TB3 card seemed to survive read/write tests, while an HP Zbook laptop with QNA-T310G1T adapter fails very quickly.
Wondering if it's worth it to reinstall OS and apps to get the laptop back to 1809.
Workstation DAS/NAS: TVS-872X(T) *Thunderbolt card removed due to Windows10 1909 bug
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB static volume
2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus R/W RAID1 cache w/EK WB M.2 heatsinks + 2x NB 12-P fans
1x40Gbe Mellanox DAS network connection, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
Backup NAS: TVS-872XT
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB Thick volume w/snapshots
1x40Gbe Qnap Thunderbolt 3 card, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
LAN switch 10Gbe(2)/1Gbe(8) NETGEAR Nighthawk SX10 (GS810EMX)

metaldave
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by metaldave » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:53 pm

Hi, all.

I am going to jump in and add my two-cents with my TS-453BT3 and Thunderbolt Networking. I have been experiencing similar issues with upload attempts with files of just about any size (from 50 MB to 9 GB). This has been an ongoing issue for several months with troubleshooting with both QNAP and my computer manufacturer, Lenovo.

The symptoms are fairly consistent with what's been reported above. I can download at full speed from the TS-453BT3 via the Thunderbolt Networking connection (generally 500-600 MB/s). When trying to send files from the computer, I get the file transfer dialog that stalls at 0% and the Time remaining says "calculating" until a time-out dialog appears. That dialog indicates "Error 0x807003B: An unexpected network error occurred." and offers the choices of "Try again," "Skip," or "Cancel."

I worked with QNAP extensively through a support ticket. The support engineer was able to login to my computer and perform tests with the computer and the TS-453BT3. He checked the filesystems, the SMB system, and everything in between. My other Thunderbolt-enabled machine is my Late 2012 iMac (with Thunderbolt 2), and that machine consistently works fine with Thunderbolt Networking file transfers. Based upon that session, we believed the issue was with the Lenovo.

I performed troubleshooting with Lenovo on two occasions. With each, we performed a series of diagnostic tests (nothing as in-depth as the QNAP support engineer), and the result was the return of the machine under warranty. In each repair, they replaced the motherboard of the unit (which includes the Thunderbolt 3 interfaces). With each return, the software was not the most up-to-date version of the OS or the device drivers. However, the system did work with the file transfers for a time. I hadn't suspected the Windows Update was the issue, but it's a sound hypothesis at this point.

I can add the following. With the last repair, I was asked by Lenovo to wipe and put a clean install of Windows 10 on the computer. I did that (hoping to save a second repair and the corresponding shipping back and forth), and I was able to reproduce the issue. I cannot, however, qualify whether or not I'd updated to the latest build of Windows 10 prior to my testing. There's a chance I did, so I cannot rule-out the possibility that 1903 may be the culprit.

When I received the unit back from the last repair, it came with a very old image (including an old build of Windows 10, very old device drivers, and all the Lenovo bloatware you could handle). However, Thunderbolt Network was working perfectly with Uploads and Downloads. I had thought that I had, possibly, received a "lemon" motherboard replacement with the last repair as things were looking up. It was too painful to try and update the drivers, remove the bloatware, etc., so I wiped the system with a clean install of Windows 10.

Everything seemed to work upon the re-install, and life seemed to be good. Prior to the wipe, I had downloaded the offline Widows Update installers for the handful of updated I'd done to that point. I installed the few I had, and everything was working fine. These were:

  • 2019-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64-based Systems (KB4522355) - Dated 10/23/2019; Installed 11/11/2019
  • 2019-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64 (KB4522741)
  • 2019-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows Server 2019 (1903) for x64 (KB4524100)
*All Downloaded via https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Home.aspx

I figured I would let Windows Update do the rest. Of note, the KB4522355 update was labeled "Update for Windows (KB4522355) after the install. I know for a fact it was labeled correctly when I let Windows Update do the job, and I'm not sure the offline installer was a cumulative as I'd hoped. Subsequently, the following updates came down via Windows update:
  • 2019-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64-based Systems (KB4517389) - Dated 10/7/2019; Installed 11/11/2019
As you can see from the dates, this Cumulative Update was older and installed after newer version. However, everything was just fine even in light of these "conflicts." After a little more testing, I continued with system updates, installing applications, etc. About a week later, I circled back around to offloading some work up to the TB-453BT3, and it started stalling again.

After reading this thread, I decided to investigate what may have come down the "automatic install" pipeline from Windows Update. I noticed the following:
  • 2019-11 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64-based Systems (KB4524570) - Dated 11/11/2019; Installed 11/14/2019
I'm guessing the KB4524570 update installed on 11/14 is where the Thunderbolt Networking was killed (and my workflow along with it). As someone else noted, there's a new feature update to 1909 available, and I'm installing that tonight for giggles.

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a way to disable Automatic Updates (at least, not permanently), and I don't know if that's a feature of Windows 10 Pro that I'm missing out on with the Home edition. I may try to roll-back the last couple of updates to see if that restores the functionality, but I'm not sure if someone else has already tried something along those lines.

Again, everything was working just fine until today, and, although I cannot be 100% positive, the only thing that changed was that little update in the background.

I present the above for some solid data on the issue as I've experienced it, and I hope this helps us pinpoint the offender. Again, I was shocked to have this issue arise again, but I was glad to find this thread that seems to describe the same issue. If Windows 10 is to blame, I would not be surprised. I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks!

- Dave

HiTach
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Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by HiTach » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:56 am

Thanks Dave for this detailed information.
On the subject of ignoring Windows updates, there is the option Settings->Windows Updates->Pause to pause updates for up to 7 days, but also in my Windows 10 Pro, in Settings->Windows Update->Advanced options, there is "Choose when updates are installed", which can delay updates for up to 365 days. This is useful for businesses who need to delay windows updates for extensive compatibility testing, and to further delay in the case there is an incompatibility.
Workstation DAS/NAS: TVS-872X(T) *Thunderbolt card removed due to Windows10 1909 bug
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB static volume
2x1TB Samsung 970 EVO plus R/W RAID1 cache w/EK WB M.2 heatsinks + 2x NB 12-P fans
1x40Gbe Mellanox DAS network connection, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
Backup NAS: TVS-872XT
8x10TB WD Gold RAID6 54TB Thick volume w/snapshots
1x40Gbe Qnap Thunderbolt 3 card, 1x10Gbe QXG-10G1T for local 10gbe virtual switch
LAN switch 10Gbe(2)/1Gbe(8) NETGEAR Nighthawk SX10 (GS810EMX)

metaldave
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:20 am

Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by metaldave » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:37 am

HiTach wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:56 am
On the subject of ignoring Windows updates, there is the option Settings->Windows Updates->Pause to pause updates for up to 7 days, but also in my Windows 10 Pro, in Settings->Windows Update->Advanced options, there is "Choose when updates are installed", which can delay updates for up to 365 days.
Yeah, I suspected this was a "Pro" feature. I do have the ability to push out to November 30th in the Advanced Options of Windows 10 "Home" (rather than using the button for 7-day delay).
HiTach wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:56 am
This is useful for businesses who need to delay windows updates for extensive compatibility testing, and to further delay in the case there is an incompatibility.
Yes, no one likes downtime in the enterprise. I, equally, don't like downtime in the home. I gotta get around to buying a cheap Pro OEM license for this machine to disable these little surprises.

I think I'll work on rolling back the last couple of updates this afternoon and see if that gets met back in order.

metaldave
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:20 am

Re: TVS-882T: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by metaldave » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:57 am

@matchframe: Maybe change the thread title a bit to remove your model number? I don't want to take over your thread, but I think this issue is affecting all Thunderbolt Networking-enabled models.

metaldave
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Re: Thunderbolt networking is broken on Windows 10 Pro 1903

Post by metaldave » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:57 am

Hey, all.

I did some experiments and wanted to share my results. First, I tried removing the last two updates in the following order:
  1. Feature Update via Windows 10 Version 1909 via Enablement Package (KB4517245)
    - I installed this one after my earlier post, so it was the first to be removed. Of note, this cannot be downloaded as an offline install from the Microsoft Update Catalog and must be downloaded through Windows Update (at least at this time).
  2. 2019-11 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64-based Systems (KB4524570) - Dated 11/11/2019; Installed 11/14/2019
    - This didn't get me back to a "working" status with the Thunderbolt Networking and, as far as I can tell, this was the update that automatically installed prior to the upload functionality being affected.
As indicated, this didn't change anything with the Thunderbolt Networking issues. Since I had nothing better to do on a Monday evening (haha), I decided to do a clean install of the computer. I downloaded the latest 1909 Windows 10 image (I believe dated 10/6/2019) and installed the current Thunderbolt software from Intel/Lenovo. No joy. That image had the following updates built-in:
  • Feature Update via Windows 10 Version 1909 via Enablement Package (KB4517245)
  • 2019-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64-based Systems (KB4517389)
  • 2019-10 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64 (KB4515871)
  • Update for Microsoft Windows (KB4513661)
    - Servicing Stack Update to address a bug in Features on Demand
  • 2019-10 Servicing Stack Update for Windows 10 Version 1903 for x64-based Systems (KB4521863)
I disabled the automatic updates immediately upon install, so it remained baseline.

I'm going to wipe and try with the 1903 Windows 10 image today. I'll keep you posted!

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