Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
-
- New here
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:12 am
Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
Hi everyone,
I've been an IT pro and a QNAP user for a long time but this is my first attempt at the surveillance side of things both with IP cameras and recording. Despite my experience in IT and QNAP system I'm struggling painfully at setting things up. I'm not sure where to start because just about every step there seems to be instability and issues so I'm just going to outline the gear I have and how I want to set up the networking side of it and with that in mind, I will reset everything and follow whatever setup is most advisable.
QNAP is an old TS-410 4-bay with 4x2TB in a single RAID6 volume running 4.2.6
Cams are 2xTrendNet TV-IP314PI
Network switch is a 8-port HPE 1820-8g(gigabit) PoE(65W)
At the moment I only have a single cam connected with a 6' cat6 straight to the PoE switch then to the QNAP.
I configured the cam to have a static IP, set the username/password then performed the rest of the config from the QNAP Surveillance Station.
Once I do that, accessing the camera's own interface doesn't allow me to view the live feed. If I reset the cam and disconnect from the NAS the cam performs very well in standalone mode for both view live and recording to a flash drive. Plan B might be to just record to the NAS via CIFS/SMB but viewing recordings from that might be a pain (I don't know).
The QNAP is used as a network file server with very light usage. All unwanted services that can be turned off and disabled.
My first question is:
Is it logical to think that with this combination of gear I could expect acceptable recording and playback?
You can probably assume by me asking that question I'm not getting the performance I expect. In fact I can safely say it is unusable. It is so slow to load even the Surveillance Station interface that I typically forget I had logged in to begin with. I'm talking 5+ minutes just to log in. Accessing the NAS Control Panel is slow but not ridiculous like SS interface. Once I get to the SS interface I can see the cam and the preview recording. Most of the time I'll just hang at "connecting" status. If I'm lucky I'll see "recording". Viewing the live monitor or recordings is even more trying of my patience.
Maybe I purchased bad cameras or the NAS is too old...I just want to get to the bottom of this. Particularly if there is a solution that has me successfully running the gear I have at hand.
Thanks in advance.
I've been an IT pro and a QNAP user for a long time but this is my first attempt at the surveillance side of things both with IP cameras and recording. Despite my experience in IT and QNAP system I'm struggling painfully at setting things up. I'm not sure where to start because just about every step there seems to be instability and issues so I'm just going to outline the gear I have and how I want to set up the networking side of it and with that in mind, I will reset everything and follow whatever setup is most advisable.
QNAP is an old TS-410 4-bay with 4x2TB in a single RAID6 volume running 4.2.6
Cams are 2xTrendNet TV-IP314PI
Network switch is a 8-port HPE 1820-8g(gigabit) PoE(65W)
At the moment I only have a single cam connected with a 6' cat6 straight to the PoE switch then to the QNAP.
I configured the cam to have a static IP, set the username/password then performed the rest of the config from the QNAP Surveillance Station.
Once I do that, accessing the camera's own interface doesn't allow me to view the live feed. If I reset the cam and disconnect from the NAS the cam performs very well in standalone mode for both view live and recording to a flash drive. Plan B might be to just record to the NAS via CIFS/SMB but viewing recordings from that might be a pain (I don't know).
The QNAP is used as a network file server with very light usage. All unwanted services that can be turned off and disabled.
My first question is:
Is it logical to think that with this combination of gear I could expect acceptable recording and playback?
You can probably assume by me asking that question I'm not getting the performance I expect. In fact I can safely say it is unusable. It is so slow to load even the Surveillance Station interface that I typically forget I had logged in to begin with. I'm talking 5+ minutes just to log in. Accessing the NAS Control Panel is slow but not ridiculous like SS interface. Once I get to the SS interface I can see the cam and the preview recording. Most of the time I'll just hang at "connecting" status. If I'm lucky I'll see "recording". Viewing the live monitor or recordings is even more trying of my patience.
Maybe I purchased bad cameras or the NAS is too old...I just want to get to the bottom of this. Particularly if there is a solution that has me successfully running the gear I have at hand.
Thanks in advance.
-
- Experience counts
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 pm
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
Sorry, but no. Been there, done that years ago on a TS412 and that had a faster CPU. Not a usable combination.Is it logical to think that with this combination of gear I could expect acceptable recording and playback?
That's an old, slow NAS, with well below the minimum RAM for the very RAM-hungry Surveillance Station, presuming the device has the 256MB as per the spec.
Even with a single camera, you'd need around 1GB RAM to keep clear of getting memory swapping to disc.
That's a classic indication that there is a lot of virtual memory use going on. What the old IT Pros called 'thrashing'.It is so slow to load even the Surveillance Station interface that I typically forget I had logged in to begin with. I'm talking 5+ minutes just to log in.
Performance really drops off a cliff edge when dealing with streaming video and RAM gets used up such that swapping to disc occurs.
Check the performance monitor and you will be surprised to see how much swap space is in use, and how much HDD activity.
You can get away with a fair bit of that with normal interactive usage, but not when you need the real-time processing of streaming video from an IP camera.
With SS you need to run with nearly zero swap space in use.
Some cameras - usually the ones with a low-end SoC - do not support more than one main stream.Once I do that, accessing the camera's own interface doesn't allow me to view the live feed.
I suspect your camera is in that category.
I checked the specs, but could see no references to that, that's usually not a good sign.
You could check how many streams the camera can provide by querying it with ONVIF Device Manager from sourceforge.net
TS-431+ for storage and media and a bunch of IP cams under Surveillance Station. TVS-473 as files backup and QVR Pro.
-
- New here
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:12 am
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
Okay. I kind of figured that might be the case. If I result to simply using the NAS as storage for the recording (which seems to work well), does anyone know of a software that will easily sort and allowing view the video?
-
- New here
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:12 am
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
I'm not entirely sure I know what you're referring to by "low end SOC" but when I'm in the interface of the cam in the video section there is a "stream" and a "sub-stream" section.
I've successfully configured the cams to dump to the nas via NFS and can view the playback from the cam web interface. It's far from ideal but considering the extreme limitations of my NAS it'll do until I upgrade.
I've successfully configured the cams to dump to the nas via NFS and can view the playback from the cam web interface. It's far from ideal but considering the extreme limitations of my NAS it'll do until I upgrade.
-
- Experience counts
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 pm
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
Sorry, a bad habit with the acronyms."low end SOC"
Almost all IP cameras have a 'System On a Chip' core component.
This is usually a 32-bit Arm processor and a hardware DSP (Digital Signal Processor) that handles the video encoding and decoding.
Depending on the overall performance level of the SoC, a camera may be able to supply multiple video main streams to clients that request it, or maybe just a single main stream.
Invariably there is also a sub stream, of lower resolution and bitrate than the main stream, aimed at clients that just need more of a thumbnail size of video (eg a multi-camera view on an NVR), or where the communications is bandwidth-constrained.
This facility to provide an interface to handle NetHDD video storage can be built in to the camera, as a mini-NVR, such as is the case with Hikvision cameras.If I result to simply using the NAS as storage for the recording (which seems to work well), does anyone know of a software that will easily sort and allowing view the video?
Hikvision use a proprietary method of storing and indexing what's been recorded, that does not lend itself well to direct access.
Presumably your camera may do something similar.
TS-431+ for storage and media and a bunch of IP cams under Surveillance Station. TVS-473 as files backup and QVR Pro.
- Johnno72
- Easy as a breeze
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:35 pm
- Location: Australia
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
So Alistair are you saying that the Hikvision cameras have an issue that affects their proper use in recording and playback issues in regards to direct playback? If this is the case, what camera and model of said camera would you recommend/suggest?
I am in the process of implementing QVR Pro or SS, from what others have mentioned elsewhere QVR Pro is the better option and looks to be the one to be advanced and updated over SS itself? Is this correct in my reading?
TIA
Johnno
I am in the process of implementing QVR Pro or SS, from what others have mentioned elsewhere QVR Pro is the better option and looks to be the one to be advanced and updated over SS itself? Is this correct in my reading?
TIA
Johnno
OS: Win10 Professional v2004 OS Build 19041.388 x64
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
-
- Experience counts
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 pm
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
Not so much an issue - just that the video files and their metadata (their associated info such as time / date / camera channel / type of event etc) are stored in a Hikvision-specific way on the NAS destination.So Alistair are you saying that the Hikvision cameras have an issue that affects their proper use in recording and playback issues in regards to direct playback?
The Hikvision camera 'mini NVR' facilities understand the structures and list and play everything with no problem.
But you can't just go in with a file explorer and play the video clips directly that the camera has stored on the 'NetHDD' NAS destination.
I hope that makes sense.
QVRPro and SS also store the video data in their own structure, but a bit more accessible.
TS-431+ for storage and media and a bunch of IP cams under Surveillance Station. TVS-473 as files backup and QVR Pro.
- Johnno72
- Easy as a breeze
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:35 pm
- Location: Australia
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
Ar yes I have seen this on previous systems, simply you require to use their own proprietary viewer software, I think. Which would be a better option for surveillance/camera system; QVR Pro or SS?
As you can see I am running an Enterprise NAS with 12bays available to add further HDD's
As you can see I am running an Enterprise NAS with 12bays available to add further HDD's
OS: Win10 Professional v2004 OS Build 19041.388 x64
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
-
- Experience counts
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 pm
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
To some extent this may be a personal preference.Which would be a better option for surveillance/camera system; QVR Pro or SS?
SS is the older, more mature package.
But it is relatively simple and crude, and isn't going to change much.
QVRPro is much more sophisticated and feature-rich, but still quite rough in parts, and quite heavy on the hardware.
It's getting a lot of development effort and will improve over time.
Easy enough though to trial either or both and make a choice.
You don't need to buy any extra licences to do that.
TS-431+ for storage and media and a bunch of IP cams under Surveillance Station. TVS-473 as files backup and QVR Pro.
- Johnno72
- Easy as a breeze
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:35 pm
- Location: Australia
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
I just need to sort out a camera and this is where I am lost, so many choices, can anyone suggest/recommend a camera (POE,IP) I prefer all recordings to go to the NAS. Thermal as well.
TIA
TIA
OS: Win10 Professional v2004 OS Build 19041.388 x64
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
-
- Experience counts
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 pm
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
There are a huge number of choices. It can be bewildering. But there isn't just a single correct choice, there are many.
But knowing what you are trying to achieve is important in narrowing those down.
My recommendation - choose either Hikvision or Dahua as the vendor, then fix your budget, then start looking at how the formats and characteristics match up to your requirements.
And check out other user experiences, ask questions of them.
https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/ip-cameras.4/
But knowing what you are trying to achieve is important in narrowing those down.
My recommendation - choose either Hikvision or Dahua as the vendor, then fix your budget, then start looking at how the formats and characteristics match up to your requirements.
And check out other user experiences, ask questions of them.
https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/ip-cameras.4/
TS-431+ for storage and media and a bunch of IP cams under Surveillance Station. TVS-473 as files backup and QVR Pro.
- Johnno72
- Easy as a breeze
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:35 pm
- Location: Australia
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
I would simply want/desire/need to have 24/7 recording inside and outside my house and in my garage (I have already run NIC cable to that location)
Having some night thermal recording/activation will be good, though I do have some decent lighting available outside and have just thought about installing a motion activated spotlight inside the garage for extra lighting.
There is a desire to install a camera in specific bedrooms that are used for server rack operation and storage. I am guessing that I don't require zoom and remote operation of the cameras (PTZE??)
Not sure but I think a 360 degree camera in the lounge area and bullet cameras the rest would be sufficient. With reviewing via Android app and remote login (TeamViewer, RemotePC, Anywhere etc).
I am willing to add further HDD's to my NAS that has available bays ready for expansion, thinking make another RAID group specifically for QVR Pro (if possible, from my reading it should be).
Next question I have is can I connect a POE switch to a normal managed switch that connects back to the NAS.
TIA Johnno
Having some night thermal recording/activation will be good, though I do have some decent lighting available outside and have just thought about installing a motion activated spotlight inside the garage for extra lighting.
There is a desire to install a camera in specific bedrooms that are used for server rack operation and storage. I am guessing that I don't require zoom and remote operation of the cameras (PTZE??)
Not sure but I think a 360 degree camera in the lounge area and bullet cameras the rest would be sufficient. With reviewing via Android app and remote login (TeamViewer, RemotePC, Anywhere etc).
I am willing to add further HDD's to my NAS that has available bays ready for expansion, thinking make another RAID group specifically for QVR Pro (if possible, from my reading it should be).
Next question I have is can I connect a POE switch to a normal managed switch that connects back to the NAS.
TIA Johnno
OS: Win10 Professional v2004 OS Build 19041.388 x64
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
NAS: QNAP TS-EC2480U-RP 16G 24 Bay - Firmware: v4.4.3.1421 build 20200907. Updated from v4.4.3.1400 Build 20200817 Official
StoragePool / DataVol: Storage Pool 1 / DataVol1: Single 29.04TB - Thick Volume: 29TB
HDD's: Western Digital - Model: WDC WD4001FFSX-68JUN0 Red Pro NAS 3.5"
HDD Size: 4TB - HDD Firmware all HDD's: 81.00A81
RAID Configuration: RAID6 x 10, HotSpare x 1, ColdSpare x 1 - Network: 1GbE
UPS: CyberPower PR3000ELCDRT2U Professional Rackmount LCD 3000VA, 2250W 2U Line Interactive UPS
QNAP Hardware details required: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68954
Remote Administration of: TVS-863+ 16G on UPS Cyberpower OLS1500E+RMcard205
-
- Know my way around
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 12:34 am
Re: Home Surveillance Setup Guidance
No experience with Hikvision, but I have used Vivotek for a while on SS and now QVR Pro using POE switches off another switch back into the NAS. A few are even on a double hip. Both SS and QVRP correctly identify the camera model (not generic Onvif). Started with 569, then 670, and now an 872 with 14 cameras recording 1920hd into QVR pro. We also FTP some alarm conditions back to NAS in parallel (eg for closeup of vehicle number plates to post-process with ANPR software).
Some cameras and software do use their own format but for example, SS files can be read with players like VLC after a simple mod.
Most popular cameras also have their own real-time viewing software.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Some cameras and software do use their own format but for example, SS files can be read with players like VLC after a simple mod.
Most popular cameras also have their own real-time viewing software.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TVS-872XT with TR-004 and D800C
TS670Pro with UX500-P expansion
TS569Pro
TS670Pro with UX500-P expansion
TS569Pro