HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

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mustard
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by mustard » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:00 am

Well I can't open Photo Station unless I want to lost days of careful tagging it seems. Which means that for large photo libraries, facial tagging is completely unusable if it's just going to be randomly wiped. Not worth putting the effort in.
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greenbone
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by greenbone » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:33 am

I'll add my frustration to the pile here.

I spent hundreds of hours over 3 years of using my TS-453B tagging photos and videos with names and keywords, locations, topics, etc. I do the tagging almost daily because there's details about context that fade if I wait too long. I have a high volume of photos / images and videos I take in to my media library almost every day, my own photos and videos, and stuff I'm saving from social media posts, articles, things people send me, etc. - and the tags / keywords are crucial for me to keep things organized.

Even if I wanted to recreate the tags / keywords again, I couldn't, because much of what I'm tagging is related to when it was tagged, what was going on in the news that day, week, month, location info, who sent it to me, etc.

In fact, I bought the Qnap device in 2018 because Apple (insanely) decided to remove their photo tagging from iOS, a stunning dumb-down on their part.

My motherboard on the TS-453B died 1 year out of warranty, so, I paid the $360 to get the new one installed.

Installed the drives, no trouble, everything tests out fine, but.... all that HUGE body of work organizing, tagging with keywords, etc. is gone.

All that time in QuMagie - burned, no way to get it back.

I have two support tickets for this. One guy, "Chris L", asked for a NAS log file. Sent it. His reply is simply.... "Sorry, you have to rebuild everything".

I'll see what the 2nd ticket gets me, but I think this is a case of a company selling their "features" very hard - without being transparent about the fact that their marketing gloss doesn't match the product performance.

Qnap misrepresents their products and traps people into spending a premium for what are seemingly useful features integrated with their proprietary platform and systems.

Even my decision to pay the $360 for a new motherboard was based on the advice from the tech (Seng) saying that as long as my drives were fine, my data would be fine. That's $360 I should have put into a different NAS device.

Qnap is not for people serious about keeping backups and using the NAS for mission-critical workflow. Even consumers just looking for storage should avoid Qnap products, as the premium buys them nothing.

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parkerc
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by parkerc » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:39 pm

So sorry to hear that, and putting QNAP’s deficiencies, of which there are many to one side - I am surprised how - if your drives and everything are still the same - how it can all be lost ?

Are all the apps you had installed not still there and functioning as before too ?

I’ll be interested to hear how things progress - while you didn’t technical move to another NAS I was always under the impression that upgrading to a new NAS and inserting my old drives - would retain my data etc.
Model Name : QNAP TS-253be (16GB) & TS-453D (16GB)
Firmware Version:: QTS Latest
OS Version : Apple iOS (iPad/Safari Browser)
Number & Type of HDDs : 2 x 3TB WD Reds, Raid 1 & 4 x 4TB WD Reds, Raid 5
Website (When I have time) : http://www.nodecentral.co.uk

greenbone
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by greenbone » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:13 am

parkerc wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:39 pm
So sorry to hear that, and putting QNAP’s deficiencies, of which there are many to one side - I am surprised how - if your drives and everything are still the same - how it can all be lost ?

Are all the apps you had installed not still there and functioning as before too ?

I’ll be interested to hear how things progress - while you didn’t technical move to another NAS I was always under the impression that upgrading to a new NAS and inserting my old drives - would retain my data etc.
The apps were there, Qphoto, Qvideo, Qmusic, QuMagie Core, QuMagie, etc.

When I opened QuMagie I noticed it was indexing (crunching on some thumnails, facial recognition, object recognition). I didn't ask it to.

At first I thought maybe just the folder-settings were gone - and maybe these apps keep a file at one or more of the locations set for indexing media, so I checked, but all my pointers to the various locations for photos, music, videos were still set, but no media appeared - until some new photos I had uploaded after the grand reboot. Only the new photos appear, and none of the countless tags / keywords / people I'd created were there.

This shows that they are indeed retaining something, but despite that bit of retention, none of those apps can see anything prior to my reboot.

My guess is they're going to tell me to "delete all the folder paths, then re-index, very sorry, rebuild all your tags, etc.".

This is nuts. This means that ALL their customers depending on those apps are at risk. If you have to migrate drives, you're screwed. If you have a board failure, screwed.

This is like buying a really nice, fairly expensive car that you later find out is programmed to brick at 50,000 miles.

greenbone
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by greenbone » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:59 am

2021-03-30 13:56:30


Qnap:
Hi (redacted),

For this case, I will have to escalate it and get this issue look at. Please do not make any changes to the Nas.

Sorry, we do not have a feature to backup the apps settings. What I will do is put in a feature request.

Me:


At the link I provided, in a Qnap forum, someone made the very same feature request back in January. A reply from a tech named Gerry is posted in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=152665

Nothing to fix this very bad problem since January?

Consider this....

Your marketing materials for QuMagie mentions features and benefits that are very slick, enticing, and make the product seem like a reliable organizational tool for photos, video, music, etc. The marketing materials regarding the photo management was one of the main reasons I bought a Qnap NAS. I could have purchased much less expensive drive enclosures and used some other software to organize my media.

In addition, you've included sophisticated AI for facial and object recognition, thumbnail generation, etc.

To not include a means of backing up the tagging, albums, people, etc. is like selling a very nice car with a gas tank that can only be filled one time. It makes no sense.

It's a really odd detail to leave out of the product.

That's not a complicated feature. There must be a flat text file or DB table somewhere already with the metadata people create and associate with their content. It should be automatically backed up - maybe even reversion options to step back (like a wiki).

I can't think of any reason that data I entered would get clobbered by a drive being put back in the NAS. As far as the system is concernd, nothing has changed.

I did notice that when I installed the drives and booted up, QuMagie began indexing media. It should ASK me, not do so by default.

Why would it be re-indexing?

This is a very serious problem - and it puts ALL of your customers at risk, not only ones who have a board failure, but anyone who migrates their NAS or has a drive replacement or failure.

This defect puts your company at risk for legal action against you. False advertising.

My goal is to see that this problem is fixed, I don't want a legal battle, so I'll work with you - but you should know there's product liability lawyers that would love to hear about this.

Set up a call with me, use your remote access, let's do this - because I really need my tagging back - and you folks need this fixed so you don't get in bigger trouble.

Qnap:
Here is what I got back from my escalation team.

Because the firmware version after the RMA is an old version, it will cause the Media library to find that the version is retired and trigger the reset database.

Reindexing has been completed so far, there is no possibility of restoration.
Me:

First:

Your team knew what version firmware I had because I filled it in the web-form in your portal when I submitted the support request. (That's why people run Qfinder Pro, so they can find their NAS and also know status, firmware version, etc.)

Why would the motherboard be installed using firmware out of sync with what I indicated was installed?

If Qnap is incabable of making sure the firmare matches, why ask for the firmware version at all?



Second:

Why would you ever trigger a database reset without prompting / warning the user to first perform a backup, or warning them what the consequences are?

You describe this reset like it is a "feature", when really it is a bug, a very descructive and irresponsible bug.

In other words, asking Qnap to include a means of backing up user-generated metadata for a media library is not a feature request, it is demanding that this horrific BUG - known by users and Qnap - get fixed. Qnap has known about this from the time QuMagie was launched, users have been demanding it for over a year. I have all the proof I need in your very own forums and our interactions on this support ticket.

Qnap should NEVER be clobbering data without warning, and even more importantly - Qnap MUST provide a means for people to back up and protect their work in Qnap's apps and systems for managing media files.

My NAS is configured to NOT automatically update firmware because such updates are RISKY.

A firmware update or mismatch condition should NEVER reset anything, but rather, it should prompt people that the update or mismatch can have an impact on their data.

This is not complicated. Somewhere on the hard drive there are media library files that get generated and populated with user input via the QuMagie program.

Where are those files? What are the file names and paths?

I could spend time doing a fresh install, take a snapshot of the drive, then add some keywords and people in QuMagie, then take another snapshot and find the difference, but why not TELL USERS?

Third:

Qnap is selling their products on the basis that people can organize their media via the QuMagie AI features and interface, but there's no means of backing up the tags, people, keywords and associations with media in the library. Qnap is NOT disclosing this serious flaw to potential customers.

Quite simply....you are falsely advertising your products and negligent in providing the most basic feature a NAS / backup company should have for all facets of your product. A WAY TO BACK UP DATA. All the combined labor of all customers using QuMagie is at risk. I'll bet Qnap can do the math on that aggregate usage and see just how massive that liability is.

NONE of your customers can depend on QuMagie as long as you allow this BUG to persist. Do you understand the magnitude of the liability this represents?



Seng,

My device is now basically useless as QuMagie is seeing ONLY photos I added after the reset, so whatever kind of "reset" was triggered, it IGNORED my photo / video / music library - despite all the folder paths being properly set. So, this "reset" you speak of like it is a "feature" isn't even working. (because it is a BUG).

I'm not letting this go. I'm going to escalate this much further. In other words, I'm going to take legal action and get business and consumer media involved if Qnap does not fix it immediately and refund my money.

Here are my demands:

I want not only my $360 for the motherboard back, I want a FULL refund for the NAS itself, a detailed explanation and assistance with migrating OUT of QTS, and I want $51,000 for my time lost using your falsely-advertised QuMagie tool. I'm valuing my time at $85 per hour for a cumulative 600 hours I spent tagging in QuMagie.

I consulted with you before spending the $360 for a new board. I knew that I was taking my chances that the drives could be bad, and when we spoke about this, we both agreed that if the drives were NOT bad, then everything would be fine. The drives are fine.

Qnap FAILED to account for the firmware version that I provided in the support ticket. I can prove this.

Qnap FAILED to warn me that a mismatch would trigger a damaging database reset. I can prove this.

Qnap FAILED to fix a bug they've known about for a long time, a bug that Qnap knows destroys user data. I can prove this.

It is criminally negligent for Qnap to continue to sell their products under these conditions, particularly without warning customers about the risk and consequences.



If a lawsuit goes from one user like me to a class-action, imagine the scale. Multiply my demands by 100, or 1000.

Please put me in contact with your supervisor and a C-level person in your Headquarters in Taiwan.

I'm done with getting the run-around.

I want my demands met and Qnap held accountable.

--------

If anyone else is interested in pushing, let me know. They've sat on this bug for over a year and until users take action, Qnap won't.

Think about how much time you've put in to tagging / training the AI, creating keywords in QuMagie. All that time is at risk. How much is your time worth?

What justifies a company being this negligent and sitting on this problem for so long?

They need to be pressured. The costs this bug incurs are real and substantial.

psgnas
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by psgnas » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:27 am

greenbone wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:59 am
2021-03-30 13:56:30


Qnap:
Hi (redacted),

For this case, I will have to escalate it and get this issue look at. Please do not make any changes to the Nas.

Sorry, we do not have a feature to backup the apps settings. What I will do is put in a feature request.

Me:


At the link I provided, in a Qnap forum, someone made the very same feature request back in January. A reply from a tech named Gerry is posted in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=152665

Nothing to fix this very bad problem since January?

Consider this....

Your marketing materials for QuMagie mentions features and benefits that are very slick, enticing, and make the product seem like a reliable organizational tool for photos, video, music, etc. The marketing materials regarding the photo management was one of the main reasons I bought a Qnap NAS. I could have purchased much less expensive drive enclosures and used some other software to organize my media.

In addition, you've included sophisticated AI for facial and object recognition, thumbnail generation, etc.

To not include a means of backing up the tagging, albums, people, etc. is like selling a very nice car with a gas tank that can only be filled one time. It makes no sense.

It's a really odd detail to leave out of the product.

That's not a complicated feature. There must be a flat text file or DB table somewhere already with the metadata people create and associate with their content. It should be automatically backed up - maybe even reversion options to step back (like a wiki).

I can't think of any reason that data I entered would get clobbered by a drive being put back in the NAS. As far as the system is concernd, nothing has changed.

I did notice that when I installed the drives and booted up, QuMagie began indexing media. It should ASK me, not do so by default.

Why would it be re-indexing?

This is a very serious problem - and it puts ALL of your customers at risk, not only ones who have a board failure, but anyone who migrates their NAS or has a drive replacement or failure.

This defect puts your company at risk for legal action against you. False advertising.

My goal is to see that this problem is fixed, I don't want a legal battle, so I'll work with you - but you should know there's product liability lawyers that would love to hear about this.

Set up a call with me, use your remote access, let's do this - because I really need my tagging back - and you folks need this fixed so you don't get in bigger trouble.

Qnap:
Here is what I got back from my escalation team.

Because the firmware version after the RMA is an old version, it will cause the Media library to find that the version is retired and trigger the reset database.

Reindexing has been completed so far, there is no possibility of restoration.
Me:

First:

Your team knew what version firmware I had because I filled it in the web-form in your portal when I submitted the support request. (That's why people run Qfinder Pro, so they can find their NAS and also know status, firmware version, etc.)

Why would the motherboard be installed using firmware out of sync with what I indicated was installed?

If Qnap is incabable of making sure the firmare matches, why ask for the firmware version at all?



Second:

Why would you ever trigger a database reset without prompting / warning the user to first perform a backup, or warning them what the consequences are?

You describe this reset like it is a "feature", when really it is a bug, a very descructive and irresponsible bug.

In other words, asking Qnap to include a means of backing up user-generated metadata for a media library is not a feature request, it is demanding that this horrific BUG - known by users and Qnap - get fixed. Qnap has known about this from the time QuMagie was launched, users have been demanding it for over a year. I have all the proof I need in your very own forums and our interactions on this support ticket.

Qnap should NEVER be clobbering data without warning, and even more importantly - Qnap MUST provide a means for people to back up and protect their work in Qnap's apps and systems for managing media files.

My NAS is configured to NOT automatically update firmware because such updates are RISKY.

A firmware update or mismatch condition should NEVER reset anything, but rather, it should prompt people that the update or mismatch can have an impact on their data.

This is not complicated. Somewhere on the hard drive there are media library files that get generated and populated with user input via the QuMagie program.

Where are those files? What are the file names and paths?

I could spend time doing a fresh install, take a snapshot of the drive, then add some keywords and people in QuMagie, then take another snapshot and find the difference, but why not TELL USERS?

Third:

Qnap is selling their products on the basis that people can organize their media via the QuMagie AI features and interface, but there's no means of backing up the tags, people, keywords and associations with media in the library. Qnap is NOT disclosing this serious flaw to potential customers.

Quite simply....you are falsely advertising your products and negligent in providing the most basic feature a NAS / backup company should have for all facets of your product. A WAY TO BACK UP DATA. All the combined labor of all customers using QuMagie is at risk. I'll bet Qnap can do the math on that aggregate usage and see just how massive that liability is.

NONE of your customers can depend on QuMagie as long as you allow this BUG to persist. Do you understand the magnitude of the liability this represents?



Seng,

My device is now basically useless as QuMagie is seeing ONLY photos I added after the reset, so whatever kind of "reset" was triggered, it IGNORED my photo / video / music library - despite all the folder paths being properly set. So, this "reset" you speak of like it is a "feature" isn't even working. (because it is a BUG).

I'm not letting this go. I'm going to escalate this much further. In other words, I'm going to take legal action and get business and consumer media involved if Qnap does not fix it immediately and refund my money.

Here are my demands:

I want not only my $360 for the motherboard back, I want a FULL refund for the NAS itself, a detailed explanation and assistance with migrating OUT of QTS, and I want $51,000 for my time lost using your falsely-advertised QuMagie tool. I'm valuing my time at $85 per hour for a cumulative 600 hours I spent tagging in QuMagie.

I consulted with you before spending the $360 for a new board. I knew that I was taking my chances that the drives could be bad, and when we spoke about this, we both agreed that if the drives were NOT bad, then everything would be fine. The drives are fine.

Qnap FAILED to account for the firmware version that I provided in the support ticket. I can prove this.

Qnap FAILED to warn me that a mismatch would trigger a damaging database reset. I can prove this.

Qnap FAILED to fix a bug they've known about for a long time, a bug that Qnap knows destroys user data. I can prove this.

It is criminally negligent for Qnap to continue to sell their products under these conditions, particularly without warning customers about the risk and consequences.



If a lawsuit goes from one user like me to a class-action, imagine the scale. Multiply my demands by 100, or 1000.

Please put me in contact with your supervisor and a C-level person in your Headquarters in Taiwan.

I'm done with getting the run-around.

I want my demands met and Qnap held accountable.

--------

If anyone else is interested in pushing, let me know. They've sat on this bug for over a year and until users take action, Qnap won't.

Think about how much time you've put in to tagging / training the AI, creating keywords in QuMagie. All that time is at risk. How much is your time worth?

What justifies a company being this negligent and sitting on this problem for so long?

They need to be pressured. The costs this bug incurs are real and substantial.
Completely agree with you.
I was not a victim of this bug yet but as soon as I started to see the time I was spending tagging my 10k photo collection, my primary concern was to back this work up. It was when I realized it wasn't possible and I just couldn't believe.
I completely support you.

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parkerc
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by parkerc » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:16 am

parkerc wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:39 am
Absolutely ! And for a company like QNAP - that promotes themselves as one of the best choices for your back ups , providing their own applications without a comprehensive backup facility is an amazing oversight. So much so I’ve logged it as a feature request too - so if you and/or others log a call too - that can only help matters.
It’s now just over 1 year on since I wrote the above within this particular thread, it’s such a shame that for something so personal and important QNAP a) released it in the first place with suitable precautions and b) they’ve still not released an update to address this massive oversight
Model Name : QNAP TS-253be (16GB) & TS-453D (16GB)
Firmware Version:: QTS Latest
OS Version : Apple iOS (iPad/Safari Browser)
Number & Type of HDDs : 2 x 3TB WD Reds, Raid 1 & 4 x 4TB WD Reds, Raid 5
Website (When I have time) : http://www.nodecentral.co.uk

SuperK7
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by SuperK7 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:55 am

parkerc wrote:
parkerc wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:39 am
Absolutely ! And for a company like QNAP - that promotes themselves as one of the best choices for your back ups , providing their own applications without a comprehensive backup facility is an amazing oversight. So much so I’ve logged it as a feature request too - so if you and/or others log a call too - that can only help matters.
It’s now just over 1 year on since I wrote the above within this particular thread, it’s such a shame that for something so personal and important QNAP a) released it in the first place with suitable precautions and b) they’ve still not released an update to address this massive oversight
Hope Qnap will move up.
But they do not read this forum.

Tapatalk を使用して私の ELS-NX9 から送信


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parkerc
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Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by parkerc » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:42 pm

SuperK7 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:55 am
Hope Qnap will move up.
But they do not read this forum.
I know they’re not active on here, but It really feels like there should be greater awareness of this critical flaw in this add-on. More posts on social media platforms can’t be a bad thing - if it saves people wasting time

I’d still like to think that QNAP keep an eye on this forum , if only to see if there is anything of interest or sensitive developing. But either way I still think its important for people to log support calls (so it’s more formally recorded).
Model Name : QNAP TS-253be (16GB) & TS-453D (16GB)
Firmware Version:: QTS Latest
OS Version : Apple iOS (iPad/Safari Browser)
Number & Type of HDDs : 2 x 3TB WD Reds, Raid 1 & 4 x 4TB WD Reds, Raid 5
Website (When I have time) : http://www.nodecentral.co.uk

greenbone
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:41 am

Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by greenbone » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:20 am

psgnas wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:27 am



Completely agree with you.
I was not a victim of this bug yet but as soon as I started to see the time I was spending tagging my 10k photo collection, my primary concern was to back this work up. It was when I realized it wasn't possible and I just couldn't believe.
I completely support you.
Thanks. I'll bet there's people with much larger media libraries than mine or yours, oblivious to the risk.

Other than the gobsmacking oddity of Qnap being indifferent regarding this bug and lack of a backup feature, I was a fan of the product and company overall. It's such a ridiculous hole in their reputation.

Rapid Iteration is the new normal in product and service development, so customers are forgiving of errors and issues that get recognized and addressed.

Qnap seems otherwise responsive with firmware and app updates.

Makes me wonder....they were so hot to get the AI features rolling, but totally disinterested in accommodating the user-input? That kind of disconnect is really troubling.

greenbone
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:41 am

Re: HELP - Backing up all photo data - tags, location, people etc.

Post by greenbone » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:27 am

parkerc wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:42 pm
SuperK7 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:55 am
Hope Qnap will move up.
But they do not read this forum.
I know they’re not active on here, but It really feels like there should be greater awareness of this critical flaw in this add-on. More posts on social media platforms can’t be a bad thing - if it saves people wasting time

I’d still like to think that QNAP keep an eye on this forum , if only to see if there is anything of interest or sensitive developing. But either way I still think its important for people to log support calls (so it’s more formally recorded).
Yes, everyone - please get support tickets established.

The tech dealing with my ticket went silent since I made my demands, We need more people to weigh in.

Pretty simple: "The QuMagie tool for organizing media is broken. I can't back up my work and everything I've added for organizing my library is at risk from a forced database reset."

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