Want a new ryzen tower

[yttrium6]

Its a popular request. Synology is releasing one. I bet Asustor is next. Yes, I can run to them, but I like qnap. If this request isn't honored, I guess people will switch brands......A lot of folks here unhappy about the EOL of x77 series.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

last i heard, the qnap rep on reddit clarified there isn't any new ryzen tower nas anytime soon. I'm not sure if they meant permanent, or just for now only.
https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... s/g18iz80/

If you want their newest ryzens, so far they are all rack models o-O; If i'm not mistaken, all these new models are quts hero (aka zfs linux) which is nice, although i'm not sure if they can fallback to qts if that is what some people prefer instead.

I'm using the ts-877, it's fine, even if i'm still on a gen1 ryzen, but for my purposes it's plenty good enough. But like you said EOL. So eventually QTS will be limited, and when it finally permanently goes EOL (no more security updates), i would need to replace qts for something else, or upgrade to a newer model.

But will there be another tower ryzen model out by then?

[drdope]

I heard nothing about new "Ryzen Desktop NAS" being released so far.
The Synology @yttrium6 mentioned, uses a Ryzen V1500B, which is a relatively low-power, embedded SoC.
--> https://nascompares.com/2020/09/24/bran ... n-powered/
--> https://www.amd.com/en/product/8496

The Ryzen V1500B is still a lot slower, than the Ryzen5 1600 which was used in the base configuration of the TS-677 three years ago.
--> https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-1600
Also the V1500B is not using the AM4-Socket, instead it's soldered onto the mainboard, so it can't be easily replaced/upgraded.

The Synology DS1621 is a "Ryzen Desktop NAS" from a marketing point of view only (imho).
The older QNAP TS-x77 series was much faster, and much more flexible (adding up to 8 Cores/16 Threads CPUs; 64GB RAM and fast PCIe/NVMe-SDD-Storage).
A true successor to Desktop TS-x77 is sadly missed still.

The only available option right now is buying a used TS-x77 or building your own device and run an open source NAS-Distro...


edit1:
If our TS-677 would die tomorrow, i would build something like this as a replacement:

12Cores/24Threads | 128GB ECC RAM | 6x PCIe 3.0 4x NVMe | 8x Sata | 2x 10GBase-T
1x ASRock Rack X470D4U2-2T
1x AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 12C/24T, 3.80-4.60GHz, boxed (100-100000023BOX)
4x Kingston Server Premier DIMM 32GB, DDR4-3200, CL22-22-22, ECC (KSM32ED8/32ME)
1x DeLOCK PCI Express x16 Card > 4 x internal NVMe M.2 Key M (89835)
1x Supermicro AOC-SLG3-2M2-O

Still have to checkt, if the ASRock X470D4U2-2T supports PCIe bifurcation; the newer ASRock Rack X570D4I-2T does:

12Cores/24Threads | 128GB non-ECC RAM | 5x PCIe 4.0 4x NVMe | 8x Sata | 2x 10GBase-T
1x ASRock Rack X570D4I-2T
1x AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 12C/24T, 3.80-4.60GHz, boxed (100-100000023BOX)
4x Crucial SO-DIMM 32GB, DDR4-3200, CL22-22-22 (CT32G4SFD832A)
2x ASRock Hyper Quad M.2 Card (90-MCA0G0-00UANZ)
2x Supermicro OCuLink SFF-8611 Stecker auf 4x SATA Buchse, 0.5m (CBL-SAST-0933)

But you can't get ECC-SO-DIMMSs > 16GB/Module; so you basically have to choose between PCIe 4.0 or ECC-RAM now...
And i really like to have both (but don't wan't to invest in an AMD Epyc).


edit2:
A relatively "cheap" AMD Epyc build "just for fun":
16Cores/32Threads | 256GB registered ECC RAM | 8x PCIe 4.0 4x NVMe | 8x Sata | 2x 10GBase-T
1x ASRock Rack ROMED8-2T
1x AMD Epyc 7302P, 16C/32T, 3.00-3.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler (100-100000049WOF)
8x Crucial RDIMM 32GB, DDR4-3200, CL22-22-22, reg ECC (CT32G4RFD832A)
2x Supermicro OCuLink SFF-8611 Stecker auf 4x SATA Buchse, 0.5m (CBL-SAST-0933)
2x ASRock Hyper Quad M.2 Card (90-MCA0G0-00UANZ)

All build-ideas without Case, PSU and Hotswap-Enclosures...

[yttrium6]

How unfortunate for me. I know many here have the tech skills to build a device. I know the physical part, but software is where I am lost. That's why I will buy a prebuilt. What I will buy is the question. None of these companies release roadmaps for upcoming products.

[drdope]

I feel you "pain"... i went down the QNAP road about 10 years ago, after building everything myself for over 20 years.
Although it's fun and a learning experience, it's a also very time consuming too.

You can always check out various NAS-Distros using virtual machines.
--> https://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=NAS

I personally think the physical part (including planning the build, checking out HCLs) is much harder, than installing an OS via USB and setting it up.
It's essentially downloading an Disk-Image, casting it on a USB-Stick, booting the build with the USB-Stick an installing it via a (G)UI:
e.g. --> https://www.truenas.com/docs/hub/initia ... lhardware/
After that you can logon into a web-based GUI, as you would on a QNAP.

If you know your way around QTS or DSM, you will get the hang of any other NAS OS too, as they all do the same/offer the same basic functionality.
The main difference is the GUI itself and the availability of (3rd party) addons/plugins/apps.
It's more like changing from one modern car eg. BMW to Mercedes or VW, as they became essentially rolling computers in the last decade.

If you want to further use QNAP and need a new system soon, checkout the TS-x72XT Series, it's the next best thing after TS-x77 and still available.
Also it's highly upgradable:
--> viewtopic.php?f=182&t=151376

[qrusher]

H1288x
H1688x
On the way to market

[drdope]

@qrusher
H1288x/H1688x are fine machines, but what if you don't need tons of 2,5'/3,5' Sata-slots?

Our whole business runs on an upgraded TS-677 and we have three free 3,5' slots on that.
With growing SSD/HDD sizes, the need for having lot's of Sata-slots goes down too.

If you look at HDD-pricing e.G. Seagate Ironwolf NAS drives sorted by price/TB:
--> https://geizhals.de/?cat=hde7s&asuch=Ir ... 00%7E960_5
Who really needs 8-12 3,5' slots anymore, when there just a very small price difference between 8TB and 18TB drives and the sweetspot is 14TB?
8-12 Slots times 18TB means 144-212TB gross space.

Also the Xeon W1250 doesn't compare favorable to Ryzen 3xxx:
--> https://geizhals.de/?cmp=2291795&cmp=20 ... mp=2089954

I don't see that amount of storage-needs in small/medium businesses any time soon, except from some very special cases e.g. video-editing, cat-scans, mri-scans...
Maybe QNAP is bitten in the **, by making QTS so much more, than just a NAS (QTS brings all features, to build a small/medium company server).
Differentiating NAS only by count of 2,5/3,5' Slots won't work anymore in the long term (imho).

I would gladly upgrade our TS-677 to a unit offering more CPU-Cores, more RAM and more PCIe/NVMe-Storage.
e.g. up to 16Cores/32Threads | 128GB ECC RAM | 5x PCIe 4.0 4x NVMe | 2x 10GBase-T | "only" 4x 2,5/3,5 Slots for Sata-SSDs/HDDs
Ryzen 3xxx can do this today...

[Bob Zelin]

Hi ya Dr. Dope !
the TS-H1288X and TS-H1688X have the SSD slots, because you will use two of these for the QuTS Hero (ZFS) operating system. So you will have two SSD's dedicated to the OS, if you want the performance that you expect. The other SSD's can be used for SSD caching (as well as the internet NVMe slots). Will the caching make a difference for QuTS ? I don't know - I have not tried it, but I am TOLD that it will
make a big difference. I can't answer until I try it.

My clients do professional video editing. They need the speed, and they need an enormous amount of storage. As your your "sweet spot" - a Seagate EXOS 16 TB is almost the same price as the 14 TB, so
if you can afford the 14, you get the 16. The 10TB drives are much cheaper, if you don' need the space. As for the CPU - while I love the AMD Ryzen, I am not making a decision to abandon QNAP because of a CPU choice - neither is anyone else. the Intel Xeon is a spectacular processor.

Professional high performance users (including all my clients in Germany) will want this, when it comes time to purchasing their next QNAP. They don't give a damn what CPU is in the chassis.
They just want a working system, that can perform 4K - 8K editing.

Bob Zelin

[dolbyman]

Professional high performance users (including all my clients in Germany) will want this, when it comes time to purchasing their next QNAP. They don't give a ** what CPU is in the chassis.

Let me know if you need a technical translator

[Bob Zelin]

yup - we will all be switching to Asustor. Or be building our own FreeNAS system !
Mr. Dope can have fun watching this video -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgTBUQ6C2ZY


Bob

[drdope]

@Bob Zelin

I get your point.
As i said myself: "I don't see that amount of storage-needs in small/medium businesses any time soon, except from some very special cases e.g. video-editing, cat-scans, mri-scans..."

Now please try to understand mine.

Imagine you have to replace a broken 8Core TS-877 Desktop to a client running his unit as virtualization server.
--> https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=hdxnas&xf= ... 8%7E7758_8
I don't really care if there's a Ryzen and i9 or a Xeon in the System too.
But Ryzen is at the time the most cost-efficient x64-CPU when it comes to core count and PCIe 4.0 Lanes per €/$.

I know quite a few small business using there QNAP as vServer, as they were very well priced (e.g. less expensive than VMWare vSphere and Veaam Backup for vSphere licenses alone).
These businesses are essentially stuck now with their solution, as there is no upgrade path, nor any sidegrade path they can take right now.

[Bob Zelin]

Hello Dr. Dope -
I would like to apologize to you in advance before I write my disrespectful answer to you.

I know exactly what it costs to go to a professional accountant.
I know exactly what it costs to get a new air conditioning unit.
I know exactly what it costs to have a new bathtub installed in a bathroom
I know exactly what it costs to have the transmission changed in an automobile
I know exactly what it costs to have a new lawn irrigation system installed in a private home.
I know exactly what it costs for an annual elevator maintenance contract for a small condo apartment building.
And I CERTAINLY know what it costs to wire up a small company with eight cheap security cameras, so the owner can remote video his company, and have it recorded.

So are you telling me here, that your PROFESSIONAL client is simply not willing to pay for a professional IT contractor such as yourself, to setup a brand new VMWare vSphere, or vServer ?
Because an air conditioning repairman, or plumber, or auto mechanic, or lawn maintenance guy deserves more than your YEARS of knowledge and education ?

I believe that you may have the wrong clients.
Bob Zelin