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Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:27 pm
by ETHREAL1
In short please add Hybrid RAID or some other method such as manually definable nested RAID as an option.

So the reason I ask this is I have been using a Synology 4 bay NAS for a few years now. When I first got the afore mentioned NAS I started with two 6TB drives. As my storage needs have increased I as needed added 12TB drives. My NAS currently has two 6TB drives and two 12TB drives. As you can probably surmise I will need to get a new NAS or swap out drives soon in order to expand. I have concluded to do the former as the NAS I have is getting a little old and there are many Synology quirks that I would like to no longer deal with. QNAP has got my attention with things like there USB based expansion units, add in card support, easy snapshotting, and so on. But then I noticed one very large problem with me switching over to QNAP from Synology. There lack of hybrid RAID.

With Synology's hybrid RAID I get a total of 24TB of usable Capacity with 12TB of redundancy. But if I where to switch to a QNAP NAS I would have to use RAID 5. With my drive arrangement at the moment that would only give me a usable capacity of 18TB with 6TB for redundancy and 12TB would just be wasted. This is unacceptable! You have an environment where you have to either stick with just one capacity drive for all your addons or having to swap ALL your drives to larger capacity drives all at once. There are a few major flaws with this. The first problem is that drive capacity's increases as time goes on. Like when I got those first two 6TB drives 8TB drives where just becoming a thing. Now at the time of writing 18TB drives are now becoming a thing. The second problem is not everyone has the money to just replace all there drives with new much more expensive drives. The third problem is that not everyone knows what there storage needs will be when they get a NAS.

Now there may be another way that I have been reading about that at least for me would work. (assuming I'm correct about what I've been reading) What I'm referring to is called manually defendable nested RAID. The process of using RAID in layers. So as an example what I would do with my current configuration would be to put those two 6TB drives in a RAID to make a 12TB drive per say. Then use RAID 5 on the "Three 12TB drives". I believe that at least with my current configuration that this is what Synology's hybrid RAID is currently doing.

This is the ONE thing keeping me from getting a QNAP NAS at the moment. Now if there is some way to do what I'm asking already that I have missed I would love to know about it. I was looking into using the ZFS based OS but it also does not support the adding of individual drives so.

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:14 pm
by Toxic17
Hi there.

you are best to submit a ticket with this request . The "Features Wanted" forum was setup with QNAP supported this forum. it very rarely does that ever now.

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:07 pm
by ETHREAL1
Toxic17 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:14 pm Hi there.

you are best to submit a ticket with this request . The "Features Wanted" forum was setup with QNAP supported this forum. it very rarely does that ever now.
Unfortunately it does not appear that I can unless I own a QNAP product first. It asks for a QNAP account ID and in order to make one it looks like you need to insert a product SN number witch I would not have.

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:15 pm
by Moogle Stiltzkin
old thread here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=76243&p=783038

so we don't end up repeating what has already been said yet again.

ZFS also has the limitation where you can't expand? so once you build your raid for the first time, that's it. so to add more new drives you'd have to scrap it and redo the raid again. backups and a willingness to do so (whenever the need arises to add more hdds) will be a requirement for using zfs on quts hero :'

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:57 pm
by ETHREAL1
Moogle Stiltzkin wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:15 pm old thread here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=76243&p=783038

so we don't end up repeating what has already been said yet again.

ZFS also has the limitation where you can't expand? so once you build your raid for the first time, that's it. so to add more new drives you'd have to scrap it and redo the raid again. backups and a willingness to do so (whenever the need arises to add more hdds) will be a requirement for using zfs on quts hero :'
Funny you should mention that thread, if you would note the last two posts on it..... That’s why I made this thread.

Also in regards to the ZFS thing. It appears you can add RAID groups to the storage pool. But as I have never had the opportunity to use ZFS first hand I am not entirely sure what that means or how it functions. Does that mean you can add storage by adding say another group of drives in RAID 5????? And if so how does that interact with any storage already in place?

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:05 pm
by Moogle Stiltzkin
i understand. but this for others wanting to read that who were not aware of it. so they don't just end up repeating whats already been said in the continuation of the thread in v2.

:}

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:07 pm
by ETHREAL1
Moogle Stiltzkin wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:05 pm i understand. but this for others wanting to read that who were not aware of it. so they don't just end up repeating whats already been said in the continuation of the thread in v2.

:}
Oh I’m not mad at you or anything. Just wanted to point that out that I made a post and they locked it.....

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:09 pm
by Moogle Stiltzkin
yeah understand, no worries bru :}

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:16 pm
by ETHREAL1
Hey anyone with a QNAP ID account that wants to make a ticket on my/our behalf is welcome too.

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:09 am
by jaysona
ETHREAL1 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:07 pm Oh I’m not mad at you or anything. Just wanted to point that out that I made a post and they locked it.....
If your use of the word "they" is a reference to QNAP, then that is a mis-understanding on your part. The forum mod (not QNAP) locked the thread because the post violated the forum rules.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60

specifically:
2.8 Necro-posting is also not allowed. This is the practice of posting in stale, inactive or dead topics. A topic is considered dead if it hasn't been updated for over 1 year.
This is primarily a user forum and not a QNAP support forum.

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:57 am
by Toxic17
So let me get this straight....

you want a QNAP owner to raise a support ticket for you, to ask for a feature request to add hybrid raid, so that you can buy a QNAP NAS, is that right?

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:23 pm
by ETHREAL1
Toxic17 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:57 am So let me get this straight....

you want a QNAP owner to raise a support ticket for you, to ask for a feature request to add hybrid raid, so that you can buy a QNAP NAS, is that right?
Ya I know it sounds a bit silly. Though by the looks of it my previous statement is no longer true. It no longer requires a QNAP product SN number.... Though as a note the "submit a ticket" link under your account appears to have outdated information then. I will just submit the ticket myself now.

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:44 pm
by ETHREAL1
jaysona wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:09 am
ETHREAL1 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:07 pm Oh I’m not mad at you or anything. Just wanted to point that out that I made a post and they locked it.....
If your use of the word "they" is a reference to QNAP, then that is a mis-understanding on your part. The forum mod (not QNAP) locked the thread because the post violated the forum rules.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60

specifically:
2.8 Necro-posting is also not allowed. This is the practice of posting in stale, inactive or dead topics. A topic is considered dead if it hasn't been updated for over 1 year.
This is primarily a user forum and not a QNAP support forum.
Must have missed that when I was reading through the guidelines. With that said in my opinion that is a bit of a silly rule.... Like sure if the "problem" has a solution but when it doesn't that does not make sense.... But whatever.... They could also have an auto lock topic after X time mechanism like other forums do but again whatever...

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:08 pm
by jaysona
I don’t always agree with that rule either, but it is what is.

Auto lock has been asked for more than once, but phpBB 3.2 is required for that feature.

Given how out of date the QNAP software is, I wouldn’t be surprised if this site is pre phpBB 3.2 as well! :P

Re: Feature Request Hybrid RAID

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:22 pm
by OneCD
jaysona wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:08 pm ... but phpBB 3.2 is required for that feature.
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks @jaysona. :geek:

Yes, I've asked the admin to implement auto-locking - no response yet.
jaysona wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:08 pm Given how out of date the QNAP software is, I wouldn’t be surprised if this site is pre phpBB 3.2 as well! :P
Can't say for certain, but they might be running 3.2.9 (if the docs directory has been updated correctly): docs/CHANGELOG.html

If so, it's EOL. https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2534536 :(