Adding SSDs - help sought

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PapaBurns
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Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by PapaBurns »

Hello,

I have two things I want to do for my QNAP over the weekend and not sure the best way to go about it. I am hoping that someone can advise me the best path to take to save time/energy/etc..

I am currently using 4 out of 6 bays basically as a home media server on a TS 653-D, 4 drives in RAID 1 with 20TB storage. I want to add 2 240GB SSDs for the OS and upgrade two of my drives (5 years old) to increase capacity.

What's my options for accomplishing this?
Do I basically have to start from scratch with the OS on the SSDs or can I move them easily from the current drives? If that's the case, is there a simple way to get a list of the important stuff (apps, settings, etc..)?

Currently doing a fresh backup first as I have not done a backup in over a year.
I have no snapshots.
I have one volume and the apps (and OS) are split amongst the drives, not sure if that matters.

I appreciate any help. TIA

Patrick

Model name TS 653-D
Firmware version Version QTS 5.0.1.2194
Operation System (OS) NA
OS Language English
Number of HDDs 4
HDD model Western Digital Red
HDD capacity 8TB *2 12TB *2
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dolbyman
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by dolbyman »

The actual OS is on all disks (hidden spanning RAID1s), so adding SSD's for some hopes of speeding up the system, that's a negative

SSD's are only/mainly good for one thing

A fast storage target for 5 or 10GbE speeds (2.5 GbE is stil served pretty well by regular disks) and fast random data access needs (mostly VM's and databses)

If you use your NAS for neither, SSD's are pretty much a waste and just have the allure of something shiny but with no real benefit.


For the HDD swap, if you are using pooled RAID1 groups, you can just follow the pool expansion guides (manual or QNAP website)
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jaysona
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by jaysona »

dolbyman wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:51 am The actual OS is on all disks (hidden spanning RAID1s), so adding SSD's for some hopes of speeding up the system, that's a negative
....
That is not universally true at all.

I have QM2-2P-384's installed in all of my QNAPs and during monthly RAID scrubbing and RAID array expansion and rebuilding. the system remains far more responsive compared to when I did not have the QM2's installed.

While it is true that the "OS" is stripped on a specific partition on all disks, the non-system volume portions seem to have a cache-delayed write, whereas the system volume does not.

Prior to adding the QM2, the web-ui and NAS were about as responsive as molasses flowing downhill in winter during RAID scrubbing and RAID rebuilding, with the QM2 there is barely any noticeable difference in web-ui responsiveness during RAID scrubbing and RAID rebuilding.
RAID is not a Back-up!

H/W: QNAP TVS-871 (i7-4790. 16GB) (Plex server) / TVS-EC1080 (32Gig ECC) - VM host & seedbox
H/W: Asustor AS6604T (8GB) / Asustor AS7010T (16GB) (media storage)
H/W: TS-219 Pro / TS-509 Pro
O/S: Slackware 14.2 / MS Windows 7-64 (x5)
Router1: Asus RT-AC86U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router2: Asus RT-AC68U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router3: Linksys WRT1900AC - DD-WRT v3.0-r46816 std
Router4: Asus RT-AC66U - FreshTomato v2021.10.15

Misc: Popcorn Hour A-110/WN-100, Pinnacle Show Center 250HD, Roku SoundBridge Radio (all retired)
Ditched QNAP units: TS-269 Pro / TS-253 Pro (8GB) / TS-509 Pro / TS-569 Pro / TS-853 Pro (8GB)
TS-670 Pro x2 (i7-3770s 16GB) / TS-870 Pro (i7-3770 16GB) / TVS-871 (i7-4790s 16GB)
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dolbyman
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by dolbyman »

Ok I stand corrected then ...but is that the kind of speedup that OP is looking for? (GUI speedup during scrub/rebuild)

I changed my reply from "SSDs only good" to "SSD only/mainly good"

Most people think that SSDs make some sort of magical improvement..but that isn't so

I use SSDs in my NAS as well but mainly for QTIER (wanted to try it out) and fast random access storage for VM use.
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

if you do get ssd i doubt the 250gb is the best deal.

the bigger capacity ssd, the longer their TBW.

according to budget part pickets they said 500gb and 1tb is where u get the most bang for your buck. 2tb only if you really need that sort of capacity. 4tb ssd is premium pricing :/

even if your going budget build, isn't 500gb - 1tb ssd better?

you can go pcpartpicker, filter prices for ssd and compare the capacity sizes for ssd and see the difference. then also weigh in the TBW for those ssds. Only recommend TLC cache SSDs.

https://pcpartpicker.com/


best check as well if there any firmware issues for the ssd you are considering. In the past, some ssds had notorious issues, and some even worse the brand refused to patch those said issues.


this youtube explains some stuff about ssds so you know the basics of wut to get (you still need to check qnap model compatibility list. m.2 sata? m.2 nvme? gen3? gen4? )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc85SpwmNyk
I have one volume and the apps (and OS) are split amongst the drives, not sure if that matters.
any plans to do vms? cause i went for 500gb, and that was not enough. if i could back in time i'd get at least 1tb minimum :(

Currently doing a fresh backup first as I have not done a backup in over a year.
well how often u decide to do backup, just be sure you can live with what you lost compared to what you are backing up. But yes if you are planning to do some major changes, best have a fresh backup, just in case.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
ritters
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by ritters »

jaysona wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:31 am Prior to adding the QM2, the web-ui and NAS were about as responsive as molasses flowing downhill in winter during RAID scrubbing and RAID rebuilding, with the QM2 there is barely any noticeable difference in web-ui responsiveness during RAID scrubbing and RAID rebuilding.
You can adjust this via priority settings, so it has not to be a problem.
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jaysona
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by jaysona »

dolbyman wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:19 am ...

Most people think that SSDs make some sort of magical improvement..but that isn't so

...
Yes, this is true, most people seem to be under the impression that using a SSD will result in some fort of performance panacea - which is generally not the case,

Using an SSD will improve performance, but only marginally in most use cases.
Last edited by jaysona on Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RAID is not a Back-up!

H/W: QNAP TVS-871 (i7-4790. 16GB) (Plex server) / TVS-EC1080 (32Gig ECC) - VM host & seedbox
H/W: Asustor AS6604T (8GB) / Asustor AS7010T (16GB) (media storage)
H/W: TS-219 Pro / TS-509 Pro
O/S: Slackware 14.2 / MS Windows 7-64 (x5)
Router1: Asus RT-AC86U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router2: Asus RT-AC68U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router3: Linksys WRT1900AC - DD-WRT v3.0-r46816 std
Router4: Asus RT-AC66U - FreshTomato v2021.10.15

Misc: Popcorn Hour A-110/WN-100, Pinnacle Show Center 250HD, Roku SoundBridge Radio (all retired)
Ditched QNAP units: TS-269 Pro / TS-253 Pro (8GB) / TS-509 Pro / TS-569 Pro / TS-853 Pro (8GB)
TS-670 Pro x2 (i7-3770s 16GB) / TS-870 Pro (i7-3770 16GB) / TVS-871 (i7-4790s 16GB)
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jaysona
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by jaysona »

ritters wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:02 pm
You can adjust this via priority settings, so it has not to be a problem.
The point you are trying to make is unclear to me.
RAID is not a Back-up!

H/W: QNAP TVS-871 (i7-4790. 16GB) (Plex server) / TVS-EC1080 (32Gig ECC) - VM host & seedbox
H/W: Asustor AS6604T (8GB) / Asustor AS7010T (16GB) (media storage)
H/W: TS-219 Pro / TS-509 Pro
O/S: Slackware 14.2 / MS Windows 7-64 (x5)
Router1: Asus RT-AC86U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router2: Asus RT-AC68U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router3: Linksys WRT1900AC - DD-WRT v3.0-r46816 std
Router4: Asus RT-AC66U - FreshTomato v2021.10.15

Misc: Popcorn Hour A-110/WN-100, Pinnacle Show Center 250HD, Roku SoundBridge Radio (all retired)
Ditched QNAP units: TS-269 Pro / TS-253 Pro (8GB) / TS-509 Pro / TS-569 Pro / TS-853 Pro (8GB)
TS-670 Pro x2 (i7-3770s 16GB) / TS-870 Pro (i7-3770 16GB) / TVS-871 (i7-4790s 16GB)
ritters
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by ritters »

jaysona wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:40 pm
ritters wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:02 pm
You can adjust this via priority settings, so it has not to be a problem.
The point you are trying to make is unclear to me.
You can choose between slow scrubbing and rebuilding and preferring the NAS services, medium in between and fast scrubbing and rebuilding, resulting in slow NAS services.
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jaysona
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by jaysona »

ritters wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:47 pm You can choose between slow scrubbing and rebuilding and preferring the NAS services, medium in between and fast scrubbing and rebuilding, resulting in slow NAS services.
Yea, so?

The point as it relates to the use of QM2 adapter and SSD is still elusive to me.
RAID is not a Back-up!

H/W: QNAP TVS-871 (i7-4790. 16GB) (Plex server) / TVS-EC1080 (32Gig ECC) - VM host & seedbox
H/W: Asustor AS6604T (8GB) / Asustor AS7010T (16GB) (media storage)
H/W: TS-219 Pro / TS-509 Pro
O/S: Slackware 14.2 / MS Windows 7-64 (x5)
Router1: Asus RT-AC86U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router2: Asus RT-AC68U - Asuswrt-Merlin - 386.7_2
Router3: Linksys WRT1900AC - DD-WRT v3.0-r46816 std
Router4: Asus RT-AC66U - FreshTomato v2021.10.15

Misc: Popcorn Hour A-110/WN-100, Pinnacle Show Center 250HD, Roku SoundBridge Radio (all retired)
Ditched QNAP units: TS-269 Pro / TS-253 Pro (8GB) / TS-509 Pro / TS-569 Pro / TS-853 Pro (8GB)
TS-670 Pro x2 (i7-3770s 16GB) / TS-870 Pro (i7-3770 16GB) / TVS-871 (i7-4790s 16GB)
PapaBurns
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by PapaBurns »

The project will have to wait as the SSDs are going back for 1TB drives as recommended.

Thank you for the replies.
PapaBurns
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by PapaBurns »

Re-initializing my QNAP as I type this. Picked up 2 x Crucial MX500 1TB drives after checking compatibility drives list provided.

Backups have been completed but it took longer than expected. One of my drives was dead, undetectable by the NAS or devices I tried to connect it to. I guess better the backup drive than a primary unRAIDED drive

**Warning NOOB questions**
OK, this is what I really want to know ;

When I put the drives I took out (2*12TB) back in the QNAP, what will happen?
Will they prompt to reformat? I am expecting this, I can re-add the data from my backups but I wanted to be certain.

Thank you in advance. :)
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dolbyman
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by dolbyman »

As the disks contain the OS, make sure you only insert old disks while the NAS is running fully booted up, otherwise the old system might overwrite your current one (a NAS is not really a disk enclosure.. it's more complex)
PapaBurns
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by PapaBurns »

As the disks contain the OS, make sure you only insert old disks while the NAS is running fully booted up, otherwise the old system might overwrite your current one (a NAS is not really a disk enclosure.. it's more complex)
Thank you. I planned on doing it this way, inserting one at a time.

Will the old disks be accessible or will they be prompted to format?
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dolbyman
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Re: Adding SSDs - help sought

Post by dolbyman »

They should be accessible (worst case, you have backups), but the shares would probably have to be recreated
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