4K film editing TVS-871T SSD Cache and WD RED

[BBedit]

Hi all, just about to build new raid volumes on my 871T (4.2.1 QTS) I have the following drives (all new)

2 x Samsung 850 PRO 512 GB

2 x WD Red 8TB HDD

4 x WD Red 4TB HDD

I will be using the box for 4K DaVinci Resolve grading work, what suggestions do people have for drive setup, I must stress this is my go to box so must also have backup space as well as fast working space.

it will be be connected via 10gbe (jumbo frame from NAS to 8 port Netgear 10gbe switch) then to a Mac Pro and HP workstation and TB2 to a MacBook retina.

Any similar users out there?

[dolbyman]

Well video editing needs fast linear read performance so the SSD cache should be put to good use. (at least read, write not too much)

Go for Red Pro drives, those are faster spindle speed, so the first read into cache is also sped up.
6x (X) TB in RAID6 (size is n-2 so you will know what size drive to use)

Do NOT back up into the device, use external storage for that

[Shibbir]

Curious to know how the QNAP TVS-871T is working with Da Vinci Resolve, any issues? Also keen to know if you're running it on Yosemite or El Capitan

[Bob Zelin]

I am late to reply to this thread, but the TVS-871T works amazing well with Resolve, FCP-X, Adobe Premiere (and all CC2015 apps) and even AVID Media Composer if you are running something like Indiestor Mimiq with it.
You can run macOS Sierra on your clients, and it works great. Just remember, if you connect via SMB from your Mac's, and you are running OS X 10.11.5 10.11.6 or 10.12, you MUST disable SMB signing on the MAC, or your will get crappy speeds (this applies to all shared storage systems from every manufacturer). If you use a thunderbolt to 10G adaptor, you will get speeds in excess of 500 MB/sec - more than enough for 6K editing.
Both WD RED 7200 RPM drives, and HGST NAS drives work great with the QNAP.

Bob Zelin

[MrVideo]

With a MAC, can't you mount the NAS via NFS?

[storageman]

For the cache set the bypass block size value of SSD cache to smallest value.
They will not help sequential IO.

[Bob Zelin]

with a MAC, yes, you can mount the NAS via NFS - this has only been required for FCP-X, but with the soon release of QTS 4.3 from QNAP in January 2017, this supports SMB 4.3.4, which means that with
FCP-X 10.3, you will be able to write libraries to the QNAP shared volume simply by using SMB ! So no more need for NFS, and NFS mounts. Again, I see no reason for the SSD cache in this application.
While I have installed QNAP TVS-1282T with four 1TB SSD's as a cache for the eight SATA drives, I do not have one client that is saying that they can't edit 4K video media with just the TVS-871T
and the eight SATA drives, and no SSD cache setup. Just make sure to use the wonderful 10G ports (and a cheap Netgear 10G switch) and connect to your client computers via 10G, and you will be editing
4K media on multiple workstations all day long.

Bob Zelin

[ak7723]

HI, a little late to this thread, however was hoping someone could help me.... I edit on MacBook Pro 2017 model (with touchbar) using Premier Pro, mostly 4k video. I need a storage solutuoon and am looking at QNAP's such as the TVS-871T and the TVS-682T etc... my main question is this.... Should I be only looking at QNAP's with thunderbolt connections, or will I get similar performance (speed) from an ethernet connected QNAP? Im not sharing media over the network, the QNAP will be sitting next to my desk so it doesn't bother me which cable I use, so long as its fast enough for easy 4k editing....

[dolbyman]

latest thread about the same topic use the forum search next time

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=136343

thanks

[Bob Zelin]

IF you are the only user, then you can get away with thunderbolt. You want an 8 drive, not a 6 drive system. I don't know why you are considering this, however, because
a Promise SanLink3 is $299, and will plug from your Thunderbolt 3 port on your Mac Book Pro 2017 and give you a wonderful fast 10G connection to the 10G Ethernet port of a
TVS-871T, or TVS-1282T. You will get about 1000 MB/sec READ speed from this. Is $299 too much for guaranteed results ? 6K only requires 143 MB/sec (as per RED Camera).

Bob Zelin

[ak7723]

IF you are the only user, then you can get away with thunderbolt. You want an 8 drive, not a 6 drive system. I don't know why you are considering this, however, because
a Promise SanLink3 is $299, and will plug from your Thunderbolt 3 port on your Mac Book Pro 2017 and give you a wonderful fast 10G connection to the 10G Ethernet port of a
TVS-871T, or TVS-1282T. You will get about 1000 MB/sec READ speed from this. Is $299 too much for guaranteed results ? 6K only requires 143 MB/sec (as per RED Camera).

Bob Zelin

Hi Bob, thanks for your help. Im a little confused though... Firstly, ignoring cost etc, which is the faster connection for editing 4k video, Thunderbolt 2 or 10G Ethernet?
Secondly, why are you suggesting TVS-871T or TVS-1282T along with a Promise SanLink3 (10G Ethernet to Thunderbolt) adaptor, when those two QNAP models have Thunderbolt connection already? Are you saying it will be faster going from 10G on the QNAP, into the Sanlink3 then into Thunderbolt 3 on the MacBook, as apposed to going from Thunderbolt 2 on the QNAP straight into Thunderbolt 3 on the MacBook (via an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor)?

Thanks for clarifying, I'm dying to get a solution that suits my requirements, however I am the only user and want to invest in the right solution, and not waste lots on the wrong solution. Also worth adding that I have limited budget, so keeping cost down to is important too, perhaps thats why you were suggesting those other models, however they seem more expensive than the TVS-882T to me?

[Bob Zelin]

Hi -
I will clarify. The longest thunderbolt 3 cable is 2 meters - too short to be practical. Get a longer cable, or use adaptors so you can incorporate a Corning Optical Cable - you are back to thunderbolt 2 speeds. Thunderbolt 2 is NOT suitable for consistent professional video editing - period. If you look at AJA System Test, or Blackmagic Speed Test (forget QNAP - just do this from Mac to Mac) - you get wildly different speeds - first very fast, then very slow. So when you play out your 4K sequence, it will play, then stall, then play, then stall. Is that what you want ? This is nothing like attaching a Promise R8 thunderbolt 2 or G-Tech Studio XL thunderbolt 2 to your Mac with Thunderbolt 2, where you will get consistent playback at 900 - 1100 MB/sec. This is NOT going to happen with a thunderbolt 2 connection that uses Apple (Intel) Thunderbolt bridging. I discussed this at length with the Intel guys at the Studio Xperience booth at NAB. Is thunderbolt 3 acceptable - maybe, but who cares - the longest cable you can use is 2 meters, and then the speed goes down, so it's impractical for real world applications.

If you simply connect via 10G (thunderbolt 2 to 10G or thunderbolt 3 to 10G) - you will get SMOOTH CONSISTANT speeds of anywhere from 600 - 1000 MB/sec (1100 MB/sec with ASUS mother PC mother boards, and Intel X550 10G chips) -but the Mac's vary from model to model. You will see that a Mac Pro Cylinder will typical get about 800 MB/sec R/W with a Sonnet Twin 10G , where a new Mac Book Pro Thunderbolt 3 with a Promise SanLink3 gives you about 500 MB/sec Write, and 1000 MB/sec READ (more than enough for 4K or 6K play out), and this is CONSISTANT SPEED.
And you are using cheap Cat 6 cabling for your connection - not expensive Corning Optical cables that cost $500 each.

So what do I use the thunderbolt ports for on these computers - they are WONDERFUL for expansion to QNAP TX-800P expander chassis, which are cheap, and work at full speed when you add an additional 8 bay expander (there is currently no thunderbolt 3 8 bay expander from QNAP, so to connect a TVS-1282T to a TX-800P, you need a T3 to T2 adaptor.

The TVS-882T is a 6 bay. Are you the only user ? The bare bones unit with 8 gig RAM is about $1600 at B&H. For multiple users, who will be doing Multclip, or Multicam, 6 drives with only 8 gig of RAM will never be enough and you will get stuttering and locking up of playback. Use 8 spindles (8 drives) and 16 gig of RAM. If you were to say "what about Synology, what about Netgear" - or even a more expensive conventional "what about Studio Network Solutions" - etc - you need 8 drives, and 16 gig of RAM to keep yourself out of trouble.

Someone could debate me and say "well, what is the absolute minimum configuration I can get away with" - I don't know. I can tell you that I have had nothing but issues with performance with anything less than 8 7200 RPM data drives (I don't care whose shareed storage system it is) - and for more than 2 users, 8 gig of RAM is just not enough.

Bob Zelin

[ak7723]

HI Bob, thanks for explaining in such detail, amazing help! I can understand a 2m Thunderbolt cable would not be practical in a group office, but its plenty of length for me as it will just sit on my desk next to MacBook. However, you have now opened my eyes to the 10G connection for the smoother speeds, thank you! I am the only user, so will now ponder if I can get away with the 6 bay / 8GB ram unit as I'm on a budget. I see you recommend 8bay units with 16GB+ ram... do 8 drives perform faster than 6? I wasn't aware of that.... this is all new to me. I also see that QNAP are just releasing a smaller Thunderbolt 3 machine, the TS-453BT3 https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-4 ... s/hardware I wonder if this would be sufficient for a single user?

[storageman]

Hi Bob, off topic, but what do suggest people do about the Mac spotlight index search issue short of hooking up via ISCSI to one of the Macs?

[Trexx]

HI Bob, thanks for explaining in such detail, amazing help! I can understand a 2m Thunderbolt cable would not be practical in a group office, but its plenty of length for me as it will just sit on my desk next to MacBook. However, you have now opened my eyes to the 10G connection for the smoother speeds, thank you! I am the only user, so will now ponder if I can get away with the 6 bay / 8GB ram unit as I'm on a budget. I see you recommend 8bay units with 16GB+ ram... do 8 drives perform faster than 6? I wasn't aware of that.... this is all new to me. I also see that QNAP are just releasing a smaller Thunderbolt 3 machine, the TS-453BT3 https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-4 ... s/hardware I wonder if this would be sufficient for a single user?

Just to jump in here, QNAP just announced their new TVS-x73X family of NAS that might be a good fit here.

It is basically takes the TVS-873 8-bay NAS and moves the USB 3.1 ports to the embedded back ports and replaces the USB 3.1 PCIe cards with a single port 10GbE-T card.

So you get good CPU speed, embedded graphics, support for up to 64GB of DDR4 memory, (2) internal m.2 SSD slots, (8) drive bays, and 10GbE all in one form factor out of the box. Plus you still have another PCIe Slot for things like the REXP drive expansion chassis, QM2 SSD caching, 10GbE ports, etc. You could also swap out the single port card for a dual port or SFP+ card if needed.

They also will have the 4 & 6 drive versions as well.

You can find more info here:
[youtube=]UFEAFhddDU8[/youtube]