Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

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phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

I am having this issue also, I've had QNAP do a login and it sat there for days with them logged in and nothing happening.

I've had the problem for about 3 or so months now, I haven't tried rolling back firmware as when I did want to do that it came up with a very scary warning and I wasn't sure if I should be doing it. I am currently on the latest firmware, and just had a random reboot 10 minutes ago.

My TS431 doesn't have any raid on it, just 4 independant supported hard drives, all of which are the same.

It certainly doesn't require it to be active when it reboots, mine is mostly idle and reboots when idle. A reboot happens once every few days and I have to check the first hard disk on it after the reboot.
meinname
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by meinname »

Good that i found this topic.
I have this issue also since weeks with my 431. - I was already on buying a 431p2 - But now i cancelled my order and rolled a few firmwares back.
So let's see if it's stable now.
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

QNap don't seem to watch to acknowledge the issue, they should put in their firmware update notes about this possible problem, they just pretend the problem doesn't exist. For this reason alone I'm never buying another QNAP nas. I have got 4 of them, and I've been selling them through my computer repair business to many people, I can't take that risk anymore as I'm getting calls for unhappy customers about the issue on their NAS's. I'm going to have to replace a few for customers with another brand of nas and transfer all their data across at my cost... big problem for me, I can't tell a business I have to flash it back to an old firmware and disable all future updates including security updates to make it stable.

Very disappointed.
P3R
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by P3R »

phrunt wrote:...they just pretend the problem doesn't exist.
That's incorrect. It's been reported by users here that Qnap are trying to track the problem down with some debugging software, and that's only the progress that have been reported to the community. There's likely more activity going on that we're not being informed about.
QNap don't seem to watch to acknowledge the issue, they should put in their firmware update notes about this possible problem...
Please show me a manufacturer that put in their release notes for their latest releases: "We have reports about a problem with spontaneous reboots that may affect model line X but we don't know what units are affected in what situation, what the problem is or why it occurs. This release may also be affected but we don't really know.". That's in my opinion an unreasonable expectation.

Naturally I don't know what have been done by Qnap in the cases opened about this issue before it became known that they're actively working on the issue but as an end user, of course I feel that they should have reacted quicker. But that's obviously always easy to say in hindsight...
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

I completely disagree with you. The second they issued a firmware that caused this issue and got enough reports of it they should of removed that firmware from their site, and put up the previous non-affected firmware as a new version so everyone flashed back to the old version with no problems, not just leaving the problematic firmware up and developing further on it ignoring the problem.

It wouldn't be hard in their release notes to say some users have reported random reboots using this firmware, if you're having these issues flash back to this firmware and don't update until further notice.

I've put up with this problem for months now not knowing a flash to a previous firmware would fix it, I've sold lots of these units to customers who are now having the problem also, it's probably going to cost in the 10's of thousands of dollars to sort this out with my customers. I've tried things such as factory resets and just having a single drive installed in an affected unit, same problem.

The only reason I found out this was a software issue and not that all the TS-431's I've sold to people have hardware faults is I started to google it in the hope someone else knew what was going on.

That in my opinion is shocking customer service. I now am left with a mess of unhappy customers who unless QNAP hurrys up and fixes the issue I'll have to replace their NAS's with that of another brand at my cost.

To say I'm angry is an understatement. It may not be such a big deal to you if you just use it to stash your collection of movies or something but these are businesses with important data, and peoples medical records and so on, they won't let me mess around with a problem like this.
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Don
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by Don »

phrunt wrote:That in my opinion is shocking customer service. I now am left with a mess of unhappy customers who unless QNAP hurrys up and fixes the issue I'll have to replace their NAS's with that of another brand at my cost.
Why? Just reload a previously working firmware. No need to replace the unit. Explain to your customers that QNAP has discovered a problem with the firmware and that they are working on a fix. Until they fix it you need to downgrade the firmware. It is simpler and it is honest.
Use the forum search feature before posting.

Use RAID and external backups. RAID will protect you from disk failure, keep your system running, and data accessible while the disk is replaced, and the RAID rebuilt. Backups will allow you to recover data that is lost or corrupted, or from system failure. One does not replace the other.

NAS: TVS-882BR | F/W: 5.0.1.2346 | 40GB | 2 x 1TB M.2 SATA RAID 1 (System/VMs) | 3 x 1TB M.2 NMVe QM2-4P-384A RAID 5 (cache) | 5 x 14TB Exos HDD RAID 6 (Data) | 1 x Blu-ray
NAS: TVS-h674 | F/W: 5.0.1.2376 | 16GB | 3 x 18TB RAID 5
Apps: DNSMasq, PLEX, iDrive, QVPN, QLMS, MP3fs, HBS3, Entware, DLstation, VS, +
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

Unfortunately for that there are security implications, as a lot of the fixes have been security related, I would have to explain to them about that, which isn't a good look but at the moment my only option other than replacing them, but at least since finding this thread I have an option, prior to this I just thought suddenly there were a lot of TS-431's all failing, and assumed it was they were a couple of years old and cheaply built.

That's why I have a gripe about QNAP not making it obvious the firmware is causing the issue by putting a notice about it in their release notes. I am just lucky I found people complaining about it on this forum. When I reported it to Minelab all they did is login to my NAS, not tell me its a known problem and they are working on it, I got nothing out of them as to what is the problem.
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

At the moment I'm trying this on a test unit to see if it helps.

1. /etc/init.d/smb.sh stop
2. /sbin/setcfg Samba SPLICE 0
3. /etc/init.d/smb.sh start

I am aware it slows down the performance of the unit but it's better than it randomly rebooting. If it fails I'll have to roll back firmware on every unit i've sold which means going out onsite to every customer.
nightshadowuk
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by nightshadowuk »

It's worth stating that rolling back firmware isn't an option for anyone (unfortunately I'm included in this :( ) on 4.3.4.0557 (20180419) and beyond:
This QTS update changes the file system of the system partition to ext4 for ARM-based models with Annapurna Labs processors. For data security reasons, you are not able to downgrade QTS to a previous version after this update.
4.3.4.0526 (20180323) and before should be okay however:
Users can now downgrade QTS on ARM-based models. To downgrade to the target version, first downgrade to QTS 4.3.3.0351 Build 20171023 (or later versions).
[EDIT: Contrary to the above, I have successfully rolled back from 4.3.4.0569(20180501) to 4.3.4.0435(20171230) using Qfinder Pro.]
Last edited by nightshadowuk on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
QNAP TS-431 [RAID5 - 2 x ST4000VN000 & 2 x ST4000VN008]
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

The ones I have all say ARMV7 Processor Rev1 (V71) as their cpu, does that mean I can't downgrade them?

Or does it mean I have to install QTS 4.3.3.0351 Build 20171023 before installing the version I want to install?

I don't want to risk bricking one by doing it if it's not meant to be done. When I go to do it, it gives me a scary message about downgrading firmware.
nightshadowuk
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by nightshadowuk »

phrunt wrote:The ones I have all say ARMV7 Processor Rev1 (V71) as their cpu, does that mean I can't downgrade them?
It depends on what firmware they are currently running:

4.3.4.0526 (20180323) and before ✔
4.3.4.0557 (20180419) and after ✘

[EDIT: Contrary to the above, I have successfully rolled back from 4.3.4.0569(20180501) to 4.3.4.0435(20171230) using Qfinder Pro.]
Last edited by nightshadowuk on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
QNAP TS-431 [RAID5 - 2 x ST4000VN000 & 2 x ST4000VN008]
verisv
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by verisv »

The downgrade worked for me as well. 4.3.4.0435(20171230) is working OK for me, no restarts at all on TS-431. Bye Vita
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

Looks like I can't downgrade any units then, they're all on the latest firmware. That really **.
phrunt
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by phrunt »

I spoke to QNAP Support about it, they said I can roll back my firmware even though I'm on the latest with my model TS-431

Steps to rollback firmware

reboot your nas and follow steps bellow to update your firmware.
download firmware file here and unzip it
https://download.qnap.com/Storage/TS-X3 ... 3.0351.zip
download Qfinder and install your pc
Qfinder http://www.qnap.com/i/en/product/app_page.php
when you running Qfinder you suppose to see nas in Qfinder
using Qfinder to update your nas firmware (right click nas name in QFinder and chose firmware update)


notice: reboot nas before you update firmware, that can help nas release enough memory.

if nas still have issue in 4.3.3 , please update to 4.3.4 latest version for debugging .
nightshadowuk
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Re: Sudden reboot during monthly scrub, unclean filesystem; any way to see the logs?

Post by nightshadowuk »

phrunt wrote:I spoke to QNAP Support about it, they said I can roll back my firmware even though I'm on the latest with my model TS-431

Steps to rollback firmware

reboot your nas and follow steps bellow to update your firmware.
download firmware file here and unzip it
https://download.qnap.com/Storage/TS-X3 ... 3.0351.zip
download Qfinder and install your pc
Qfinder http://www.qnap.com/i/en/product/app_page.php
when you running Qfinder you suppose to see nas in Qfinder
using Qfinder to update your nas firmware (right click nas name in QFinder and chose firmware update)


notice: reboot nas before you update firmware, that can help nas release enough memory.

if nas still have issue in 4.3.3 , please update to 4.3.4 latest version for debugging .
Great information, thanks phrunt. Did this work out for you?
QNAP TS-431 [RAID5 - 2 x ST4000VN000 & 2 x ST4000VN008]
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