Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

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buonboy
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Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by buonboy » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:47 pm

Hello,
my NAS (TS231P2) is not working anymore and I need to access my data.
There are two WD RED 8TB and I can connect one of them at time (with an external Sata to USB) to my Laptop with both Windows and Ubuntu.
I tried with Windows, but software like Linux Reader can't access it. and recovery software like EaseUS Data Recovery can see the files but they can't see my directories structure.
Also with Ubuntu I can't access the disk, I'm not Linux expert, but I tried to mount it following some forum, but nothing.

Any idea how I can access my data?

Thanks a lot.

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dolbyman
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by dolbyman » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:19 pm

many tried . almost all failed (forum search)

qnap uses lvm on top of md ..and piecing this together needs expert level linux skills

best thing is to buy a new qnap .. next time have external backups of your data at all times

buonboy
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by buonboy » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:12 pm

Thanks for your reply dolbyman.

Unfortunatelly it's a horrible situation for me, you buy a NAS with two HDDs exactly to be covered in case of a fault, and now I have two HDDs with all my data which I can't access. If I have to make also an external backup, then RAID 1 is useless.
My NAS is still under waranty, I bought it about two months ago. But QNAP support is so slow and not user friendly, I live in Italy and they told me that I have to send it to the Netherlands, and who knows when it will come back... And also I have to afford the shipping cost by myself!

I will never buy a QNAP anymore.

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Trexx
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by Trexx » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Sorry to hear about your issues, but you are missing I think the point of RAID (regardless of manufacturer). Raid is designed to protect against HDD failure, which is the most common issue for a NAS.

It DOESN'T protect against data loss (accidental deletion), corruption, malware, NAS system failure, etc.... that is what an external backup strategy is for.

I work (in my day job) with Enterprise level Storage devices and in general almost any data being put on them is required to be backed up externally in some fashion. This is on equipment that has much higher price tags (think $1M+ in many cases) than a QNAP.

If you had bought a NAS from another vendor, and it died, you would be in the exact same boat that you are now. These are not just HDD's in a pretty box (think external USB drives) that you can swap a drive into a different external chassis and get to the data.

As was mentioned earlier, if you HAVE to get the data off the drive and don't have the adv. linux skills to do it, then you either are left with the following options:

1) Buy another QNAP to read the data
2) Pay a data recovery service to recover the data (much more expensive than option #1)
3) Do nothing and live without the data
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storageman
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by storageman » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:27 pm

Static volumes can be read, volumes in LVM/storage pools can't.
I assume it wasn't static volume.

A bad workman blames his tools, you should have kept backups.

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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by fredrogers » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:17 am

storageman wrote:Static volumes can be read, volumes in LVM/storage pools can't.
I assume it wasn't static volume.

A bad workman blames his tools, you should have kept backups.


Wow, what compelled you to log on and write this comment, other than spite? There is nothing constructive here, you are just kicking a man when he is down.

He has only had the NAS for 2 months! Maybe he was building his backup set. Maybe he is tranferring data offsite to Amazon Glacier or something... 8 TB could easily take weeks/months to upload to a cloud service over a typical home connection. Maybe he performs a full backup every week but doesn't want to lose the last week of work. Maybe the QNAP WAS the backup of other drives/machines.

Regarding static volume vs LVM storage pools -- here is QNAP's own advice:
https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/tutorial ... -practice/
"the storage pool can offer more redundant protection and reduce risk of data crash"

:arrow: MORE REDUNDANT PROTECTION

:arrow: REDUCE RISK

The user was just following the advice of QNAP -- which failed to mention that his data would be totally inaccessible in case the unit failed, despite the disks working just fine. That's adding an additional, single point of failure (the NAS itself) which is neither MORE REDUNDANT nor REDUCED RISK, despite QNAP's claims.

buonboy: I don't have experince recovering from LVM, I cannot really help you. I have had to recover from a single drive failure, and separately, from a failed NAS device (different vendor, not QNAP) and was able to do so successfully using Linux and mdadm. Here is my tip: only, only, only use simple RAID-1 on these NAS devices. Sure, you get a little less disk space than RAID-5 or other configs but recovery is MUCH more difficult with any of those methods (as you are currently finding out). Here is an article, hopefully it provides some direction on getting your data back: https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8874

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dolbyman
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by dolbyman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:40 am

not sure how only raid1 vs all other raid types is a helpful tip here ...

raid is NEVER a backup .. so you always have to make sure to have backups

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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by fredrogers » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:23 am

Backups are always a good idea no matter what RAID type you have. However in real life, backups sometimes fail too. Or backups are done once a day/week/month and therefore don't have all of the latest files. Or the backup is in your house with your NAS and both get flooded or stolen or burnt down or whatever. There is no such thing as a 100% foolproof backup plan, and everyone here whose default answer is "use your backup" is not in touch with reality. SHOULD you have backups? Of course. But a real-time, off-site, fire/flood/earthquake protected, redundant power-supply backup for multiple terabytes of data is out of reach for most companies, let alone home users.

The original poster has all his data perfectly intact on working disks. It's the NAS, not the disks, that failed. This would be a pretty easy recovery, with or without backups, if he used simple RAID-1 without the "storage pool" nonsense. That's why simple RAID-1 is helpful, because it makes data recovery relatively easy, inexpensive, and quick if 1 drive fails, or if the NAS fails, whether or not the backups are intact. Is it foolproof? Of course not, but it makes things much easier and significantly increases likelihood of recovery in many types of failure scenarios.

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MrVideo
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by MrVideo » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:01 am

fredrogers wrote:The original poster has all his data perfectly intact on working disks. It's the NAS, not the disks, that failed. This would be a pretty easy recovery, with or without backups, if he used simple RAID-1 without the "storage pool" nonsense. That's why simple RAID-1 is helpful, because it makes data recovery relatively easy, inexpensive, and quick if 1 drive fails, or if the NAS fails, whether or not the backups are intact. Is it foolproof? Of course not, but it makes things much easier and significantly increases likelihood of recovery in many types of failure scenarios.

You are way out-of-touch with reality. Reads like you are saying that RAID1 should be used no matter the size of the NAS, i.e., 6 or more bays.That is unrealistic. Trying to manage such a configuration would be a royal PITA. Sorry, but storage pools and RAID5/6 is the way to better manage one's data. I would never hire you to manage data storage in any company.
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QNAP md_checker nasreport (release 20210309)
===============================
Model: TS-869L -- RAM: 3G -- FW: QTS 4.1.4 Build 20150522 (used for data storage)
WD60EFRX-68L0BN1(x1)/68MYMN1(x7) Red HDDs -- RAID6: 8x6TB -- Cold spare: 1x6TB
Entware
===============================
Model: TS-451A -- RAM: 2G -- FW: QTS 4.5.2 Build 20210202 (used as a video server)
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fredrogers
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by fredrogers » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:25 pm

Don't worry, I have no interest in managing backups for your company or any other. Sounds like an awful job. Obviously (well, not obvious to you) my comments are directed at an individual, home user with little experience managing networks, drive arrays, probably never used Linux before, who is trying to be responsible with his/her data by purchasing a NAS, without realizing that the default or recommended configuration actually puts his/her data at significant risk of loss (just like what happened the the original poster here). For an inexperienced, naive user, even with good backups, I fully stand by my recommendation to stick with simple RAID-1 and ignore QNAP storage pools, Synology Hybrid Raid, Netgear Flex-Raid, whatever.

With that said, using your scenario, let's say a 6-bay unit stops working. Drives are fine, the NAS isn't. What *exactly* is your recovery scenario? Have you tested it? Have you actually recovered a failed RAID-5 or 6 drive array before? How long did it take? How much did it cost? Do you have all the equipment to hook up all the drives, in your home right now? Does your backup contain files you saved an hour ago? Yesterday? Two weeks ago? If your backup fails during recovery (not impossible, when restoring 10-20TB+ of data), what's the backup to the backup plan?

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dolbyman
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by dolbyman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:58 pm

define failed raid ... degraded?

linux md is well documented .. and if you use static volumes instead of pools you also take lvm out of the equation

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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by buonboy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:14 pm

Hello all,
Dear fredrogers, thank you for your answers, infact I don't have any other backup cause I didn't have time to do it.

I asked a friend of mine who is Linux expert to check it, he already did it in the past even if they are not static volumes, but this time he says that both disks are corrupted cause of NAS fail. He's trying to repair them, if possible.
I could recover my data from disks with some Recovery software in Windows, but I don't have my directories anymore, so is a big mess.

Anyway you buy a NAS with two HDDs in mirroring and less than two months you loss everything, the next time I will buy two separate NAS. And sure not QNAP as their after sails service is so slow and horrible.

Personally I'm an Industrial Automation expert and I've never seen such a unreliability in electronic devices.

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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by fredrogers » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:34 pm

dolbyman wrote:linux md is well documented .. and if you use static volumes instead of pools you also take lvm out of the equation


Interesting... a few hours ago you said you didn't understand why suggesting basic RAID-1 was a "helpful tip." Seems you have answered your own question. Avoid the LVM/storage pools, you can often get your data back relatively easily with mdadm. And with RAID-1, you can do it with just 1 surviving disk, instead of trying to hook up 3 or more with RAID-5.

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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by fredrogers » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:56 pm

buonboy wrote: he says that both disks are corrupted cause of NAS fail. He's trying to repair them, if possible.
I could recover my data from disks with some Recovery software in Windows, but I don't have my directories anymore, so is a big mess.


First of all, you should get an external hard drive, then use imaging software like Macrium Reflect to image the entire, original hard drive to the external drive. Then use that for recovery purposes. By attempting to use your original disks for recovery, you run the risk of damaging them more. You were using RAID-1 so you should already have 2 identical copies but I would still feel safer using a separate backup entirely for recovery attempts.

Second, sounds like your friend is pretty knowledgeable, however I would still be skeptical that the drives are actually corrupted. It may look that way because they aren't mountable. But don't assume you have nothing to lose by re-formatting or doing something drastic.

Third, it is obviously better to get the files off the drives in one big group, even without the directory structure, than losing the files entirely. Yes of course it will be a pain to re-organize everything but you can probably piece a lot of it together given enough time.

Fourth, I would try every possible recovery software you can find, they almost all have free trials or the ability to let you view files before charging anything. Runtime Software, Active @Live, R-Studio, UFS Explorer, many more... they all work a little differently and you never know, one might work even when many have failed. I don't have experience so I cannot help you but I certainly sympathize with you. At least going forward you'll be sure not to rely on the NAS alone.

Finally, your unit was only 2 months old, yea it may be slow and kind of expensive to get a replacement unit but it is still probably less expensive than shipping your drives off to a recovery service. Talk to QNAP and maybe they can walk you through re-mounting the drives in a new unit using the original unit's config.

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MrVideo
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Re: Direct access to a disk which was part of RAID 1

Post by MrVideo » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:02 pm

fredrogers wrote:who is trying to be responsible with his/her data by purchasing a NAS, without realizing that the default or recommended configuration actually puts his/her data at significant risk of loss

That is just plain bull **.
With that said, using your scenario, let's say a 6-bay unit stops working. Drives are fine, the NAS isn't. What *exactly* is your recovery scenario? Have you tested it? Have you actually recovered a failed RAID-5 or 6 drive array before? How long did it take? How much did it cost? Do you have all the equipment to hook up all the drives, in your home right now? Does your backup contain files you saved an hour ago? Yesterday? Two weeks ago? If your backup fails during recovery (not impossible, when restoring 10-20TB+ of data), what's the backup to the backup plan?

Wow, you sound like a defeatist.
QTS MANUALS
Submit QNAP Support Ticket - QNAP Tutorials, FAQs, Downloads, Wiki - Product Support Status - Moogle's QNAP FAQ help V2
Asking a question, include the following
(Thanks to Toxic17)
QNAP md_checker nasreport (release 20210309)
===============================
Model: TS-869L -- RAM: 3G -- FW: QTS 4.1.4 Build 20150522 (used for data storage)
WD60EFRX-68L0BN1(x1)/68MYMN1(x7) Red HDDs -- RAID6: 8x6TB -- Cold spare: 1x6TB
Entware
===============================
Model: TS-451A -- RAM: 2G -- FW: QTS 4.5.2 Build 20210202 (used as a video server)
WL3000GSA6472(x3) White label NAS HDDs -- RAID5: 3x3TB
Entware -- MyKodi 17.3 (default is Kodi 16)
===============================
My 2017 Total Solar Eclipse Photos | My 2019 N. Ireland Game of Thrones tour

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