random reboot issues

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Toxic17
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Toxic17 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:06 pm

random reboot
- file system unclean
- raid synchronization
- raid rebuild
the last 3 are a result of the first.

why it reboots......

CPU overheating when stressed, (stress test should at least make it reboot if thats the case)
Memory which you seem to have near exhausted testing of and found nothing circumstantial as yet.
Power Supply overheating - or bad/faulty capacitors.
Bad voltage/electricity supply. (UPS should fix that- unless the UPS is faulty)
PSU Cable faulty
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:03 am

Toxic17 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:06 pm
the last 3 are a result of the first.

why it reboots......

CPU overheating when stressed, (stress test should at least make it reboot if thats the case)
Memory which you seem to have near exhausted testing of and found nothing circumstantial as yet.
Power Supply overheating - or bad/faulty capacitors.
Bad voltage/electricity supply. (UPS should fix that- unless the UPS is faulty)
PSU Cable faulty

o... so it could even be the power strip i plugged into? :' i probably should check that next.

psu cable... power supply i'd have to send to local tech store to check/replace (how to source for the psu, does qnap provide the replacement? never had to before so i don't know. they never brought up the possibility PSU could be the issue :? ).

when i was doing the memtest86 for 3 days straight, it also used all the cpu cores during that time (so wouldn't that count as a cpu stress test of sorts?), also wouldn't the psu have also been tested then as well? because there were not reboots during that period (albeit qts was not booted up, but it was powered on and running something uninterrupted) :'

dulcifium wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:06 am
Has anyone managed to complete a stress test? I just started mine 60 hours ago on a 32 TB volume and if it's going to take the best part of a year I don't really see the point...

And where does it explain what everything means?
Disparity
UNC
Hard resetting link
Fake interrupts

I have 2 UNC at the moment.
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=131630&p=707342&h ... st#p707342

:S


ran the mem test in diagnostic it completed very fast and no errors mentioned.


as for hdd stress, like i mentioned before, stress or no stress, because even on NAS idle it will still random reboot. totally random :shock:


that said on QTS 4.3.6 i have 2 days uptime.
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Toxic17 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:30 am

well leave it on 4.3.6 then until 4.4.1 is more stable.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:38 am

Toxic17 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:30 am
well leave it on 4.3.6 then until 4.4.1 is more stable.
well still too early to say yet (so far random reboots happen sure as rain within 3 or so days less of uptime). if it can go a week and more without random reboot, i'll be sure to post here about it.

then that... would confirm that something in qts 4.4.1 (or hbs3) is causing the likelihood of a random reboot to occur. As these are the only recent changes i noticed before these frequent random reboots occurred (could still be a coincidence, but that is why i downgraded to the 4.3.6 to confirm this, still testing).

anyway ... i'll keep the thread updated 8)


25 hours still nothing yet :' so i disable test since running a day seems sufficient.
Image


Also NAS uptime is 3 days 20 hours :)


*update

so much for that. I have to shutdown because the power company called up that they were doing maintenance work in the area, so power will be back in a bit later. At least they gave me a heads-up to shut down first. Sigh.... gonna have to boot up and test up-time from day 0 from scratch again :(

i wanted to wait at least a week of uptime before i started blaming qts 4.4.1 for being the culprit for my random reboot issues :lol:

Anyway, i installed more apps that i used just fine prior to this issue. trying to get the memory usage closer to maxed out and see if the NAS can stay up for a week or more. the NAS was not using much ram, because i had tried to keep as close to bare minimum for a new fresh install. But i don't want to later find out during normal regular usage there are issues later down the road. Better to test that out now :S checking whether it is a ram issue or something in 4.4.1 causing this.
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by cserl » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:43 pm

Me too, hereby I confirm that on my Qnap TS-1277 I experience random reboots in the last 10 days.
I upgraded to QTS4.4.1 beta, but after a nonfunctional virtual station problem I downgraded to 4.3.6.

Ticket sent to support:
Unexplainable restarts of NAS after which filesystem is not clean

On my TS-1277 equipped with a UPS I get unwanted unexpected restarts. After this the file system is not clean.
It occured already 3-4 times. See System Event Log entry xxxx/yy ... Power on ..."
No matching system shutdown entries are present to those power on entries in the system event logs.
It is very annoying since the service is not available, cleanup operation takes time and risks data, and encrypted volumes have to be unlocked, which takes about 40 minutes.
Please provide the root cause and the solution.

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:21 pm

cserl wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:43 pm
...
wow... that is so.... comforting to know. due to the prior lack of feedback from other x77 users, i was beginning to wonder maybe it was just bad ram all along or something hardware on my end. i'm assuming you are using the stock ram?

I was initially surprised 4.3.6 could have uptime for 3 days straight no issues. but then i got rudely interrupted, then had to restart uptime test from scratch again :(

it was a bit worse for me, since i don't have a ups to rely on. but seeing as even though you had a ups, you are still suffering from the effects of random reboot, is that right?

i was fortunate that i had a fresh backup PRIOR to updating to qts 4.4.1 (because when i moved to 4.4.1 i was planning clean reinitialize, which was why i backed up first).

so restoring from backup although time consuming, was a safety net for me. But i'm still not storing new stuff on the ts-877 until i'm fully satisfied things are resolved.

I wanted to go QTS 4.4.1, but until qnap have found the reason and fixed why it's doing this, i can't upgrade for production NAS until that gets sorted out. Considering they are looking for beta test feedback i hope they look into this matter seriously, especially now that i'm not the only one finding an issue after upgrading to 4.4.1 earlier :S


I'm now on QTS 4.3.6.0979 installed VM, and now running prime95 on win10 32bit vm. will report back in a week if uptime gets that far or not 8)

what did helpdesk say was the issue with your ticket? any solutions provided? :'

note: if anyone plans to use prime95 to test stability of their system, make sure you don't have your cpu temp at/above 80c for extended periods (as it can damage your hardware). I use the resource monitor to keep track of the temp on the NAS system. here is a guide for proper usage of prime95
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkrhLBSZOKI
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by mcfadden1371 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:08 pm

Having same frequent reboots since 4.4.1 beta firmware. System won't stay booted long enough to downgrade firmware. Prior to new beta firmware, I've had no reboots in 2 years! First I though it was my power supply then memory problems. Now I feel confident it's just the firmware.

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:55 pm

mcfadden1371 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:08 pm
Having same frequent reboots since 4.4.1 beta firmware. System won't stay booted long enough to downgrade firmware. Prior to new beta firmware, I've had no reboots in 2 years! First I though it was my power supply then memory problems. Now I feel confident it's just the firmware.
i'm assuming you're using a ts-x77 model? :'

i'll pass this along to helpdesk, maybe they'll give this a higher priority since more people having same issue.

by the way... welcome to the forum... :wink:


uh.... but for me despite the random reboots, i still had ample time to downgrade. i'm surprised your issue is happening much sooner :S

the only solution i can think of for you is to reflash the dom (because afaik this doesn't require booting up all the way into qts to do this). but you'd need a backup to recover your data.
https://wiki.qnap.com/wiki/Firmware_Recovery


Best you ask helpdesk what to do first :(
https://helpdesk.qnap.com/index.php?/Default
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[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by carnch » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:14 am

I'm having the same issue on a TS-859u-RP. A couple of months ago it started randomly rebooting with no warning. It happens every few days or so. I realize it isn't apples-to-apples since the 859u only goes up to 4.2.6 as far as the firmware version goes but QNAP is still releasing security updates for this model and I did install the latest version around that time which may point to a problem with one of the security updates. Unfortunately, this device is out of warranty so there isn't much I can do in terms of support but I may try downgrading to an older firmware to see if that fixes the issue.

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:25 am

carnch wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:14 am
I'm having the same issue on a TS-859u-RP. A couple of months ago it started randomly rebooting with no warning. It happens every few days or so. I realize it isn't apples-to-apples since the 859u only goes up to 4.2.6 as far as the firmware version goes but QNAP is still releasing security updates for this model and I did install the latest version around that time which may point to a problem with one of the security updates. Unfortunately, this device is out of warranty so there isn't much I can do in terms of support but I may try downgrading to an older firmware to see if that fixes the issue.
did you try testing the ram? use memtest86. if it shows no errors after a day, try replace ram. gtunney had an issue where this solved his problem. if possible also try run a smart test on your hdds to see they are in good condition or not (i'm assuming you are using compatible hdds from the qnap checklist right? improper incompatible hdd usage will have bad effects usually like dropped raids/or raid rebuild failures :S )

it's a real bugger to troubleshoot this issue. random reboot can be caused by just about anything... like toxic posted earlier in his troubleshoot checklist for this. so the cause for yours may be a bit different from mine :' you are still in the right thread though, seeing as it's titled under a generalized random reboot scenario... :)

as for me, i notice that these frequent random reboots stopped as soon as i downgraded from 4.4.1beta to 4.3.6 latest build.


*2 days uptime no incident so far. i installed a bunch of apps from appcenter, installed vm win10 and running prime95, so the system is under stress but no reboot.


so anyway, if you try resolve by checking the things toxic mentioned, and try downgrading firmware by 1 (i'm doubtful this is the cause of your issue), replacing the memory, your last resort would be to send your unit to a tech shop and get them to check the hardware for faults to identify what is failing and causing the reboots.
NAS
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:54 pm

okay just received the ram


Crucial 8GB DDR4-2666 UDIMM
CT8G4DFS8266
https://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ts-877/CT12584787


but i had asked for this....

Crucial 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 UDIMM
CT2K8G4DFS8266
https://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ts-877/CT12584776


-.-; ...... well gonna have to install and pray it works.

i recommend to buy from the manufacturer direct, lesson learned
https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-8GBx2-PC ... B0734WQXT6

https://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ct2k8g4dfs8266



anyway i got 2 days 5 hours uptime.... before i had to restart i had 3 days uptime..... so i can either just continue using existing ram for a week just to confirm the issue was ram all along, or just switch to new ram and check that no random reboots happen for a week. But i'd be too scared to upgrade to qts 4.4.1 :S cauz if the issue was not ram, but the firmware, then i'd have to reinitialize (downgrade) all over again.....

thats why i was hoping to run the qnap for a week or month uptime before i claim the issue the qts 4.4.1


but i'm just gonna use the new ram first because i need to test these work fine and whether to send back from refund (since this is not exactly what i asked for :? )
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:43 pm

new crucial ram ( CT8G4DFS8266 x 2) booted up NAS just fine
Image

shut down now running a memtest86 4 passes. only if there are issues i'll re-run it for a whole day. (i'm tired of these tests that take ages, especially when they may be unecessary)
Check RealWorldTech.com's "recent" evaluation of memory test programs, published in 2001. That's right, it's been that long since anybody did a valid review of these. Basically, the best diagnostics were some expensive ones from Ultra-X, including a type that used a card that plugged into the motherboard (Overclockers.com uses it in its memory reviews). Next best were Gold Memory (best of the freeware/shareware) and MemTest86, both versions that have long been replaced with much newer ones. MemTest HCI has many fan boys but isn't that good, probably because it has to run in Windows. Some other diagnostics rated poorly, including SIMMtester's DocMem, which I've learned will almost never find errors if the computer's own boot-up RAM test reported nothing. Some people have said Microsoft's own diagnostic that's included with every copy of Windows since Vista or 7 is OK, and one person reported it finding errors that MemTest86 couldn't find. There's another version of MemTest86, MemTest86+, from a different group of people, and while it uses the same test methods, the results of the 2 programs can be different.

You definitely need more than 4 passes to do thorough testing. One person was experiencing problems and suspected bad memory, but running MemTest86 or MemTest86+ for several nights revealed nothing. Then he ran Gold Memory 6.92, and in just 76 minutes it found a bad bit, but then it had to run another 9 hours to detect that error again. Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/8uhy4W5r.jpg

Try to avoid buying memory with a nonstandard voltage rating because if some DDR4 is rated above 1.20V, that means it failed testing at the industry normal 1.20V. Also avoid memory made from chips that don't have the actual chip maker's full part number printed on them, including the speed rating; I mean information you can Google and get 30-100 pages of engineering documents for the RAM chips. Some chips have the part number printed on them but not the speed grade, which indicates either the slowest speed they make for that type of chip, or the chip wasn't fully tested or even failed testing. Or it means they don't want to admit that their 3000 MHz memory consists of 2133 MHz chips, which seems to always be the case with retail DDR4 memory. Places like OCAholic.ch often remove the heatsinks to show what the actual chips are, but don't try this yourself or the circuit board may be ruined. DDR4 RAM heatsinks are useless and just decorative, and even if they're huge pieces of extruded aluminum painted many different colors, they're cheaper than prime quality RAM chips of the proper speed rating. DDR4 chips don't have heat problems and are supposed to work perfectly even up to 85 Celcius, no heatsink.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/c ... asses_now/


running the memtest86 i see the c1k/temp reading is 3214 MHZ / 83C (later this went down to 59c)


that is already close to the limit (85C) , should i be worried? so are those ram heatsinks useful afterall :'

this temp reading when i was testing the original adata ram only ever reach around 60-70C ish.



you can tell if the ram is bad if you get something like this (someone elses screenshot. mine is all white 0 zero errors no issues detected with 4 passes test. the RAM INFO portion "PC4-21300......8ATF1G6) though is exactly same as what i'm seeing on my screen, same ram?)
Image



4passes completed no issue reported. booted up NAS, uptime 0 hours, will report back next week :)
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

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Re: random reboot issues

Post by GTunney » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:21 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:03 pm
Toxic17 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:45 pm
just a thought, have you run the diagnostics tool app on the NAS and then inspected all the dump files?
yes i generated the dump and sent it forward to helpdesk. this is before i reinitialized.

they now think the issue was the ram (despite the 3 day no error memtest86 results). I'm not sure if they are just simply saying that (since i mentioned how gtunney solved his similar issue), or whether they did a proper troubleshoot and found something from the dump i sent.

anyway i would not know how to use the dump to perform any meaningful analysis to troubleshoot myself, i'm not an IT expert (main reason i bought a qnap so i don't have to deal with the technical stuff in detail). all i could tell was that a random reboot happened, and looking at the basic log it just simply said filesystem unclean, and just booted back up (essentially a restart) :S and following that, sometimes you also get raid resync (doesn't take too long) or a full raid rebuild (takes 13 hours to complete).

best i did was run that memtest86, and do smart test/scan disk, reinitialize, so far. now i'm just waiting on the new ram and just leaving nas up to see if the problem is still happening. I reinit to downgrade from 4.4.1 to 4.3.6 latest stable clean setup to check whether the issue is not simply (firmware related because of beta status).

QTS 4.3.6 latest build, with 1 day 4 hours up time, no random reboots yet.

Toxic17 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:45 pm
also if you haven't ye done this, run the disk and memory stress tests.
i did run the memory test in the diagnostic but it finished quick and came out no errors. i wasn't sure it was effective because it completed so soon. so thats why i used memtest86 instead.

as for diagnostic stress test no i did not do that. because i donno how to properly use that to check for issue. the disclaimer said to let the helpdesk support use these tools. thats why i didn't use it. all helpdesk wanted from me was dump files, they didn't ask for anything else :S there was 1 remote session at 1 time, but that was about it (i donno what troubleshooting they were doing at the time).

But ok i will take a look at that and try and run it. Just need to wait for my recover job to complete first :)

fyi the random reboot can happen during regular usage e.g. streaming (watching videos), running HBS, or even simply just an idle NAS not doing much.
How are we going after fitting the new RAM?
Model: TS-653B 8GB
FW: 4.4.1.1031 Build: 20190816
Disks: 3 x 4TB Western Digital WD40EFRX - RAID 5
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:15 pm

GTunney wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:21 pm
How are we going after fitting the new RAM?
ever since i installed, no issues yet.

*update

uptime is 2 days 11 hours
straight.

during uptime, i got vm10 running 24/7, just to add some extra load. i created 2 vms, a win10 64bit with 8gb, and an android oreo with 4gb. left over for NAS is roughly 4gb. it'll probly edit android to 2gb to allot 6gb for NAS later.

i'll have to report back in a week.


i already uploaded a recent dump log to helpdesk (which was requested) for the nas using the new ram, so they are taking a look at it.

i'm already suspecting qts 4.4.1 (or hbs3 beta) were the only difference before this issue occurred in high frequency and consistency, so helpdesk is checking into that claim. cause i downgraded to 4.3.6 (which was the only change) i haven't had a single random reboot yet (both on old original ram, and on the new ram) :'
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
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Re: random reboot issues

Post by jab701 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:45 am

Hi,

I am running a TS-473 with Crucial Memory (Also tried the memory the unit shipped with), I have had a random reboot every 1-2 days since installing the beta. I am pretty sure the memory isn't the issue was the system would stay up for 30-40 days before the update.

I am currently in the process of moving data from my NAS to an iSCSI target in my main pc. Then I will attempt the firmware downgrade to 4.3.6.

I have even been setting the fans to run at maximum and it doesnt help so I don't think the issue is heat related. The disks are re-syncing every few days and one threw a SMART error which seems to have sorted itself out after two random reboots in one day.

While I have taken part in several betas, I don't expect a public beta to have such serious issues...

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