Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

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santigh
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Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by santigh » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:17 am

Hi all,

please excuse me if this question has been answered before. I did a search on this subforum and read some interesting discussions but I will appreciate your contribution because I did not find the answer to my question:

I just got a TS453be with 4 8Tb Nas drives. I am coming from a TS-212p with two disks configured as physical disks, one of which has started to show smart issues. So I decided to buy a new NAS and will migrate data when I decide how to configure it.

I use the NAS to:
- Store 1 Tb of pictures that I manage with Lightroom (directly from the NAS).
- Sync my two Onedrive accounts (around 256 M between the two of them). This could use screenshots.
- Store movies, series, books, music, etc. to be served to several devices in the house.

Currently accounting for about 8Tb of content.

My original plan was to setup a RAID 1 and therefore have 16 Tb of space.

But when I started to configure the NAS I noticed the storage pool / volume duality.

Now, I wonder if I should:

a) have one storage pool with the 4 disks and one single THICK volume (or several volumes) in RAID 1
b) have two storage pools, one with disks 1-2 and the second one with disks 3-4, and a THICK volume (RAID) in each of them.

My question is if there is any type of limitation by grouping the disks in two storage pools and if it makes sense to configure it that way.

Thanks in advance and excuse my lack of experience with the NAS.
TS-453be
4.3.6.1050
4x8Tb WD Red

TS-212p
4.3.3.0988
1x4Tb Seagate
1x6Tb WD Red

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spikemixture
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Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by spikemixture » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:27 am

No talk of Back UP ?
How important is your data ?
Qnap TS-1277 1700 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5,, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
2x SSD 860 EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD 860 EVO 250GB (Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe 970 500gb NVME (Raid1 Plex and Emby server)
Qnap TVS-1282 i7 - 8x10TB WD White - Raid 6, 2x M.2 Crucial 500gb Raid1 VM),
2x SSD EVO 500gb (Raid1 QTS), 2x SSD EVO 250gb (Raid1 Cache), 2x M.2 PCIe Intel 512GB NVME (Raid1-Servers)
Synology -1817+ - 2x10,2x8,2x6 (Ironwolf) 2x6 WD Red - SHR
Drobo 5n - 3x2TB WD Green, 2x3TB WD Red - Drobo Raid
Buffalo LinkStation - 2x2TB WD
ProBox 8 Bay USB3 - 8x4TB Seagate - JBOD
All software is updated as soon as it's available.
I give my opinion from my experience i.e. I have (or had) that piece of equipment/software and used it! :roll:

santigh
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Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by santigh » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:25 pm

spikemixture wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:27 am
No talk of Back UP ?
How important is your data ?
Thanks for your reply. The NAS will be the weekly backup for the onedrive accounts which, of course I use everyday for work and personal issues.

The photographs are also saved externally in the cloud with Amazon Prime Video "unlimited photo storage" service.

The rest of the content is not that critical. Of course my "digital Dyogenes syndrome" will suffer if I ever lose the movies, series, books that I kept for years, but I could live with that.
TS-453be
4.3.6.1050
4x8Tb WD Red

TS-212p
4.3.3.0988
1x4Tb Seagate
1x6Tb WD Red

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MrVideo
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Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by MrVideo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:53 pm

IMHO, one storage pool, one volume, RAID5, thick volume. Still do external backups.
QTS 4.1.n/4.2.n/4.3.n MANUAL
Submit QNAP Support Ticket - QNAP Tutorials, FAQs, Downloads, Wiki - Product Support Status - Moogle's QNAP FAQ help V2
When you ask a question, please include the following
(Thanks to Toxic17 for the links)
QNAP md_checker nasreport (release 20180525)
===============================
Model: TS-869L -- RAM: 3G -- FW: QTS 4.1.4 Build 20150522 (used for data storage)
WD60EFRX-68L0BN1(x1)/68MYMN1(x7) Red HDDs -- RAID6: 8x6TB -- Cold spare: 1x6TB
Entware
===============================
Model: TS-451A -- RAM: 2G -- FW: QTS 4.2.3 Build 20170213 (used as a video server)
WL3000GSA6472(x3) White label NAS HDDs -- RAID5: 3x3TB
Entware -- MyKodi 17.3 (default is Kodi 16)
===============================
My 2017 Total Solar Eclipse Photos

P3R
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Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by P3R » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:02 pm

santigh wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:17 am
a) have one storage pool with the 4 disks and one single THICK volume (or several volumes) in RAID 1
Volumes can't be in RAID 1.

Logically it looks like this:

Volume(s) (for the large majority a single thick volume is best but in some cases multiple volumes make sense)
-------------------------------------------------
Storage pools (can group RAID groups together if necessary)
-------------------------------------------------
RAID group(s) (This is where RAID is applied and it'll group disks together)
-------------------------------------------------
Physical disks
b) have two storage pools, one with disks 1-2 and the second one with disks 3-4, and a THICK volume (RAID) in each of them.[/b]
RAID 1 is excellent when limited to two disks but it's an unusual configuration to use with 4 equal sized disks. These are the normal RAID configurations to use with 4 disks:
  • RAID 5 will offer 50 % more usable storage and better performance than 2*RAID 1. This is still by very far the most common 4-disk configuration for home use.
  • RAID 6 will have much, much better reliability than 2*RAID 1. This configuration is now becoming more and more common because of the very large disks available today.
  • RAID 10 is often used in professional storage equipment and therefore many think it's great but for home use one of the above is usually a better configuration.
My question is if there is any type of limitation by grouping the disks in two storage pools...
Storage get cluttered and require more administration. On the other hand I'm normally not a fan of using multiple RAID groups in the same storage pool, especially not in a small 4-bay. But if you insist on 2*RAID 1 you need to choose which disadvantage you can live with.
...and if it makes sense to configure it that way.
2*RAID 1 very rarely make sense with 4 equal sized disks in a 4-bay NAS so the question is why you want that odd configuration?
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

santigh
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Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by santigh » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:18 pm

MrVideo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:53 pm
IMHO, one storage pool, one volume, RAID5, thick volume. Still do external backups.
P3R wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:02 pm

Logically it looks like this:

Volume(s) (for the large majority a single thick volume is best but in some cases multiple volumes make sense)
-------------------------------------------------
Storage pools (can group RAID groups together if necessary)
-------------------------------------------------
RAID group(s) (This is where RAID is applied and it'll group disks together)
-------------------------------------------------
Physical disks

  • RAID 5 will offer 50 % more usable storage and better performance than 2*RAID 1. This is still by very far the most common 4-disk configuration for home use.
  • RAID 6 will have much, much better reliability than 2*RAID 1. This configuration is now becoming more and more common because of the very large disks available today.
  • RAID 10 is often used in professional storage equipment and therefore many think it's great but for home use one of the above is usually a better configuration.
2*RAID 1 very rarely make sense with 4 equal sized disks in a 4-bay NAS so the question is why you want that odd configuration?
Thanks both.

Being new to Raid (this new NAS will be my first system in RAID) I did not like when my old TS-212p started showing bad errors in the SMART test. And I wanted a system that was quicker (so often the TS-212p is really slow) and had more capacity and would be easier to replace a disk if a disk starts to show some errors as happened with the TS-212p.

As to why to use Raid 1... my original plan was to use Raid 5 (with 3 disks instead of 4) and then I started reading that Raid 5 is deprecated, that it should not make it to a new array and... I got discouraged. On top of that I never understood what magic trick would make the redundancy with only 1 disk out of 4. I am that noob when it comes to RAID even if I have been using a computer since the times of ZX Spectrum 16k.

But both of you seem to suggest that for my hardware setup, Raid 5 is the way to go. More doubts ;)
TS-453be
4.3.6.1050
4x8Tb WD Red

TS-212p
4.3.3.0988
1x4Tb Seagate
1x6Tb WD Red

P3R
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Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by P3R » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:55 pm

santigh wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:18 pm
As to why to use Raid 1... my original plan was to use Raid 5 (with 3 disks instead of 4) and then I started reading that Raid 5 is deprecated, that it should not make it to a new array and... I got discouraged.
That's an internet myth that unfortunately is widespread. The reality have shown that correctly managed RAID 5 work very well despite being claimed unusable by self-proclaimed "experts" on the internet for at least 10 years now. RAID 5 isn't deprecated but it also shouldn't be used indiscrimently.

With the larger disk sizes of today risks increase and at some point you reach the threshold for when YOU (not someone else here in the forum or on the internet) decides that the risks become unacceptable for your taste. That's why RAID 6 is more and more being used also in 4-disk home applications.
I am that noob when it comes to RAID even if I have been using a computer since the times of ZX Spectrum 16k.
I was slightly ahead of you then as I started with a ZX81 kit. :D
But both of you seem to suggest that for my hardware setup, Raid 5 is the way to go. More doubts ;)
I don't recommend RAID 5! I recommend that you choose either RAID 5 or RAID 6.

Had it been larger disks I would probably have used RAID 6 myself but 4*8 TB is a size where I'm not sure what would be my personal preference.
The rest of the content is not that critical. Of course my "digital Dyogenes syndrome" will suffer if I ever lose the movies, series, books that I kept for years, but I could live with that.
In light of that, I think that you should at least consider RAID 6. RAID isn't a replacement for backups (not having backups is always putting your data at risk) but a more reliable RAID can be considered some compensation for the lack of a backup. It can protect from some of the threats that backups on a separate system will protect you from.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!

santigh
New here
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Shall I use 2 storage pools for my 4bay TS453be?

Post by santigh » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:17 am

P3R wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:55 pm

Had it been larger disks I would probably have used RAID 6 myself but 4*8 TB is a size where I'm not sure what would be my personal preference.
The rest of the content is not that critical. Of course my "digital Dyogenes syndrome" will suffer if I ever lose the movies, series, books that I kept for years, but I could live with that.
In light of that, I think that you should at least consider RAID 6. RAID isn't a replacement for backups (not having backups is always putting your data at risk) but a more reliable RAID can be considered some compensation for the lack of a backup. It can protect from some of the threats that backups on a separate system will protect you from.
I might go with Raid 6 in a single Storage Pool then. Been converting the Raid 1 the Qnap was configured to (as per my request to the supplier) to Raid 5 and still 10 hours to go (thankfully because first estimate 24 hours ago was 61 hours). And I will have to decide if I go to Raid 6 in that timeframe :lol:

After all, 16 Tb is about double of what I have now and will still allow to do snapshots of the Onedrive accounts and perhaps my Photo collection too.

Thanks.
TS-453be
4.3.6.1050
4x8Tb WD Red

TS-212p
4.3.3.0988
1x4Tb Seagate
1x6Tb WD Red

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