Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

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andreiz
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Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by andreiz »

I've just installed 2 NVMe SSDs in RAID1 on my TVS-471. I want to reinstall QTS on the SSD volume, but keep the shared folders, especially

Code: Select all

/homes
on the existing Main volume. So what would be the right series of steps, something like?

1. Back up system settings via Control Panel.
2. Pull all the HDD drives out.
3. Reinitialize the NAS and let QTS get installed on the SSD volume.
4. Put the drives back in. This should adopt them since they have QNAP signature, right?
5. Restore the system settings.
6. Re-install the apps on SSD. Will the app settings be kept or not?
7. ?

How do I make QTS use the shared folders that exist on the HDDs?
orwellsolutions
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by orwellsolutions »

Hi, I am also intested in doing this, have you completed it yet? was it successful?
andreiz
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by andreiz »

No, will try soon and post the results.
P3R
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by P3R »

The recipe in the first post here will most likely end in tears.

There is no fail-safe and supported procedure for this task but experienced user storageman of this forum gave an extremely brief overview of the procedure in this post. I would guess that he have done it himself but the post Is probably for very good reasons vague as I can think of several issues depending on the exact configuration used.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
andreiz
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by andreiz »

P3R wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:17 am The recipe in the first post here will most likely end in tears.

There is no fail-safe and supported procedure for this task but experienced user storageman of this forum gave an extremely brief overview of the procedure in this post. I would guess that he have done it himself but the post Is probably for very good reasons vague as I can think of several issues depending on the exact configuration used.
Thanks for the link. I guess the main thing I need to know is if the external TR-004 RAID will be recognized fine (and no damage to the existing files on it) if I reinitialize the NAS, reinstall the system on the SSDs and then plug in the TR-004.
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by P3R »

This is a pretty rare procedure to begin with so very few users will have the experience and knowledge to guide you. Adding an external chassis (that with your particular model can also be run in different modes) will complicate the issue further. Hopefully someone that have the experience still will be able to step up and guide you...

Good luck!

Make sure you have great external backups before trying this.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
andreiz
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by andreiz »

P3R wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:12 am This is a pretty rare procedure to begin with so very few users will have the experience and knowledge to guide you. Adding an external chassis (that with your particular model can also be run in different modes) will complicate the issue further. Hopefully someone that have the experience still will be able to step up and guide you...

Good luck!

Make sure you have great external backups before trying this.
Thanks. It's unfortunate there is no supported way to move the system to another volume while preserving the rest of the data.. without copying TBs of files over to cloud backup or something.
andreiz
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[UPDATE] Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by andreiz »

Just wanted to let everyone know that I did the surgery and everything went fine aside from a couple of minor hiccups. The NAS is back up and running and all the data was preserved. Here are the steps I did in case anyone else needs to do something similar.

1. Back up everything important to external storage or cloud.
2. Shut down and back up VMs from Virtualization Station to a shared folder.
3. Back up system config via Control Panel.
4. Select "Safely Detach" for the TR-004 enclosure in the External RAID manager. Shut down the enclosure once that is done.
5. Select the main storage pool in Storage & Snapshots manager and do "Safely Detach" as well. See this article for details.
6. Shut down NAS and remove all the drives, then power it up, log into QTS and do "Reinitialize NAS" via Control Panel.
7. Once the NAS is restarted, use Qfinder Pro to set up the NAS. Format SSDs as RAID1 and let QTS use it as the system volume.
8. Log in and restore the system config from previously saved file. (I had a problem after this, where the QTS would not respond on usual ports, but I tried resetting (holding the reset button for 10 seconds) and the restoring from a slightly older system config backup and then it worked.)
9. Shut down NAS, insert all the drives and boot it back up. Go to Storage & Snapshots and do "Scan and recover storage space" on the NAS. The system should recover the storage pool and volumes. (Another small issue was that the QTS complained about duplicate shared folders (Public, Web, etc). I should probably have deleted from those before detaching the storage pool.)
10. Power up the TR-004 and do the "Scan and recover storage space" again.
11. Reinstall the necessary apps. Start up Virtualization Station and recover the VMs from the backups.

That's pretty much it. Note that you may have to delete and recreated the shared folders to point them at the proper storage pool (since the underlying pool numbering probably changed).
MikeLagit
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by MikeLagit »

How is this strategy working out in the real world? Any updates?
Last edited by MikeLagit on Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
Model: TVS-872XT 16GB
Model: TS-877-1700 16GB
ajgillis
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by ajgillis »

To MikeLagit

I'm running 2 x 500 GB Raid 1 SSD's for my OS and 30 containers without any space issues. See link for screenshot.

https://paste.pics/AT27I

I am about to try andreiz's procedure now. I want to rebuild the SSD's but leave the HDD drive data intact. I stupidly turned advanced file permissions on and off which screwed up some of my containers.

Wish me luck

AG
Model: TVS-682 i3-7100 32GB
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500 GB Samsung 860 evo
(HDD): [RAID-5] 4 x 8 TB Seagate Ironwolf
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Qmann
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by Qmann »

AG,

How did this go for you? I am thinking about doing the same, but wanted to know if it improved things for you?

Any needed updates to the guides above before attempting this?

Also, from what QNAP has told me, there is no advantage for doing this, as the QTS data is written across all drives.... ?? I don't see how QNAP can be correct on this. QTS system files only show on the main drive where it was initialized.

Q
Model: TVS-872XT 64GB (Crucial 64GB Kit CT2K32G4SFD8266)
2 x 1TB XPG 1TB NVMe (ASX8200PNP-1TT-C) [RAID-1]
5 x 16TB EXOS [RAID-5]
Borg Backup running to an offisite pi, AND to the local TS-569L
Model: TS-569L Borg server for backups
6 x 8TB Ironwolf [RAID-5]
Qotom-Q355G4 Fanless Mini Micro PC running pSense in front of everything
haproxy for anything inside the LAN
P3R
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by P3R »

Qmann wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:25 am ...I don't see how QNAP can be correct on this.
:lol: That's a bold statement... :wink:

They're correct. The actual system files (the QTS operating system) are in hidden system partitions mirrored across all drives in the system.
QTS system files only show on the main drive where it was initialized.
The System volume that you see is only where apps by default are installed.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
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Qmann
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by Qmann »

So when the operating system is booting or running, where does it read its' data? From the very fast NVMe? Or from my somewhat fast RAID5 array? Or from the worthless WD RED SMR drive that holds my TV recordings and should be put out of its misery? I know there is a copy across all drives, but surely it doesn't read all drives at the same time for normal system operations. And if it does, is your effective I/O speed of the operating system and responsiveness of QTS dependent on that of the slowest drive? Or how does it work?

Or perhaps the only gain in doing this is more for app I/O speed, and not QTS operating system speed such as booting, opening control panel windows, etc.?

I know the short time when all I had were SSDs in the NAS testing it out, it sure seemed super snappy fast in the web gui including loading ssh terminals, etc, as far as response times with the operating system.

Regardless either way, seems like a nice advantage to run apps and containers off a faster IO drive.





Last edited by Qmann on Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Model: TVS-872XT 64GB (Crucial 64GB Kit CT2K32G4SFD8266)
2 x 1TB XPG 1TB NVMe (ASX8200PNP-1TT-C) [RAID-1]
5 x 16TB EXOS [RAID-5]
Borg Backup running to an offisite pi, AND to the local TS-569L
Model: TS-569L Borg server for backups
6 x 8TB Ironwolf [RAID-5]
Qotom-Q355G4 Fanless Mini Micro PC running pSense in front of everything
haproxy for anything inside the LAN
Mousetick
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by Mousetick »

Qmann wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:25 am Also, from what QNAP has told me, there is no advantage for doing this, as the QTS data is written across all drives.... ?? I don't see how QNAP can be correct on this. QTS system files only show on the main drive where it was initialized.
It depends what one means by 'system'. It seems people in thread are using the term to refer to different things. There is the QTS system proper, and then there is what QNAP calls the 'system volume'.

What QNAP told you is correct: the core QTS system (the stuff that allows the NAS to run without any disks) is stored on the DOM flash memory while the extra stuff (configuration, non-essential software and extra packages that don't fit on the DOM) is stored on 2 RAIDs 1 (md9 and md13) replicated across all disks in the NAS. This part is not exposed by the Storage management UI and cannot be moved.

The 'system volume' designates a regular storage volume where the default shares and users' homes are located and where add-on QPKG apps from the App Center are installed by default (see The System Volume).

The title of this thread is very misleading, because QTS is not moved at all. Only the 'system volume' is migrated to SSD. And I can't help but wonder what is the purpose of this operation?

If the goal is to improve the performance of the 'system', this is a big waste of time and money IMHO. I don't know about you but I use my NAS as appliance, like a fridge. It's on 24/7/365 and it provides always-on services. Once it's booted up and all services are up and running, the 'system' is fully loaded and there is no performance gain to be had by using faster disks. It's not like a PC which might be shut down and started up daily, where one constantly opens and closes various applications. So let's say you have the 'system volume' on SSDs, which speeds up the NAS' start up by 1000% - so what? Big whoop.
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Qmann
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Re: Moving QTS to SSD, keeping shared folders on HDD

Post by Qmann »

I believe you are exactly right on the terminology mixing. Seems like there would be some performance gains on some IO intensive apps and containers I use which store data in that "system path".

Model: TVS-872XT 64GB (Crucial 64GB Kit CT2K32G4SFD8266)
2 x 1TB XPG 1TB NVMe (ASX8200PNP-1TT-C) [RAID-1]
5 x 16TB EXOS [RAID-5]
Borg Backup running to an offisite pi, AND to the local TS-569L
Model: TS-569L Borg server for backups
6 x 8TB Ironwolf [RAID-5]
Qotom-Q355G4 Fanless Mini Micro PC running pSense in front of everything
haproxy for anything inside the LAN
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