Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertised

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Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertised

Postby c70070540 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:45 pm

Hi all,

Just to be informed, Symform is offering unlimited storage for 100$ a year, and when you try to apply for it, they suddenly say it is 200$ per year per bay when you are using a QNAP device. No where on their site this is advertised. So be warned.

This is not very customer friendly in my eyes.
Last edited by c70070540 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby Symform » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:57 am

Hello,

We apologize for any confusion with our pricing. We are updating our QNAP information based on the feedback we’ve received. To clarify, the $100 per year is for 3 users on a laptop or PC. For a server (which would be comparable to a QNAP device) the price is $500 per year. The price for QNAP devices is $20 per month or $200 per year per QNAP drive. All QNAP customers can also take advantage of our up to 200GB of free cloud storage, allowing you to test the Symform cloud before you buy. Once again, we do apologize for the confusion over the pricing on our website.

Thank you,

Symform Support Team
Symform Support Team

Symform, inc.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby c70070540 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:11 pm

So to explain a bit further. When you have a server at home, make iSCSI devices and connect them to your server. Then use the Symform software on your server to backup you QNAP device. Then you pay 'only' 500$ a year, instead of 800$ a year what you need to pay when you use the QNAP plan with a QNAP 4 bay device.

Again... Symform's pricing plan just doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby sebijisi » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:16 am

Wow, this -forgive my words- totally **. I was about to set up a second TS-110 in the lab solely for contributing, so I can back up my TS-219P at home. The original prices were really good, but this totally makes no sense. In this case it is much, much cheaper just keeping my Crashplan Account. Don't get me wrong: The technology/idea is really nice, and considering myself an enthusiast I would use it "just because", but not if it is much more expensive than classic cloud storage.

Also keep in mind, that probably most small 1 and 2-bay QNAP NAS are in the hand of hobbyists and home users. Maybe that is not your target market, but obviously you also aim at "normal" computers, laptops. Keep in mind that a QNAP NAS is potentially "worth more" in the Symform cloud, because it is more likely to be available 24/7, and because people use to tinker less with their NAS boxes (compared to normal PCs where you might install new software components all the time), the NAS based Symform nodes should also be more reliable.

I can understand, that maybe you want to change the pricing for a TS-859 to the "server tier" (although I am not sure while bigger iron should cause Symform more costs?) , but I think for the SOHO NAS products it is not a good idea.


For the moment, I am uninstalling Symform.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby c70070540 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:05 am

Indeed. As a home user I have a QNAP device. Not for business, just for home use. Why on earth should the home user with a QNAP device pay more than a home user with a desktop PC? It is just rediculous. Your point about leaving QNAP devices on is a very good one. These provide a much better uptime than normal laptops or desktops. So why pay more, when you give better uptime for the solution.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby AlanInMadrid » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:17 am

Symform wrote:Hello,
For a server (which would be comparable to a QNAP device) the price is $500 per year.
Symform Support Team


I'm sorry; you've lost me. For a QNAP which costs less than a desktop computer, you have to pay MORE than for a desktop computer? If you are thinking that this is because you have money to spare because you only bought a QNAP instead of a desktop computer, maybe the reason you didn't buy a desktop computer, was becuase you didn't have enough money.

So just out of curiosity, for a 12-core 4U rack-mount server which costs somewhere north of how much my flat cost, how much?

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby Don » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:15 am

I'm not defending Symform but maybe they are charging more for a NAS than a desktop because a NAS can have a lot more storage. A typical desktop will have one drive, maybe 2. Where a QNAP NAS can have from 1 to 12 drives.
ADVICE - read the manual (online) and use the forum search feature (upper right hand corner) before posting.
Chances are very good you will find your answer.


It is a recommended to use RAID. It is also recommended to have external backups. RAID is designed to protect you from disk failure and keep your system running and data accessible while the disk is replaced and the RAID rebuilt. Backups will allow you to recover data that is lost or corrupted, or from catastrophic system failure. One does not replace the other.

Bugs and feature requests need to be submitted to QNAP via their helpdesk.

Online Manuals
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NAS: TVS-882BR | F/W: 4.3.3.0299
NAS: TVS-663 | F/W: 4.3.3.0299
N/W: Netgear NightHawk R7800 router | SMC gigabit switch

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby klos » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am

Well, typical desktop will not have raid that decreases drive capacity as well, not forgetting one or two bay NASes wwhich can in fact have less storage than a desktop.
Besides, for the p2p network these guys building their model upon, NASes make much better nodes than any personal computers in terms of reliability and bandwidth.
I looked at Symform's offer and found it rather unacceptable, even the so-called free one.
Exchanging 150Gb to of "cheap local storage" as they state to the 100Gb online is nowhere on the cheap side.
I pay for the device, bandwidth, additional electricity, replacement of harddrives that are getting additional load etc...
Saving what exactly, 50 bucks a year as compared to other providers? My guess the above will not cost anywhere less also coming without a hassle of being reminded to switch on your device or map ports or increase bandwidth like you are some sort of employee of this way too smart company.
And what kind of contractual obligations they have towards such clients in case of data loss apart from "sorry you cannot anymore benefit from our service"...

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby Symform » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:20 am

Thanks for the comments and ideas. Because of your feedback, we are introducing a new product & price level for "per QNAP device". Now you have the choice of $20 per month/$200 per year per QNAP drive bay OR the new $50 per month/ $500 per year for unlimited storage per QNAP device (like a server license). So if you want to backup two bays, for example, it would be $40 per month, or if you have more than 2, then go for the $50 per device. There is no storage limit for the Device license, but it does assume you are contributing to the Symform cloud storage network. If you have any questions, please email info@symform.com. Thank you, Margaret Dawson, Symform VP
Symform Support Team

Symform, inc.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby grzlhmpf » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:08 pm

seriously, why would ANYONE want to use this service? the whole pricing model (especially the "per drive bay" price) is just a joke... Paying for this "service" and hosting data at the same time??? What is Symform actually getting paid for?

It is cheaper for me to buy a new QNAP WITH DISKS and ask a friend to host it... and that also gives ME a lot more control over where and how that data is stored.
And i can use all MY disk capacity for myself!

And the comparison to SugarSync (which i also use) is just a joke... Symform is BACKUP ONLY and Sugarsync is very flexible multi-device sync.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby Don » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:32 pm

Agreed. Data is data no matter where it is stored. To have different pricing models based on device type and to charge on a per drive bay basis is silly. Since Symform is not hosting any of the data and they are just managing it their pricing model should be a heck of a lot cheaper than anyone else who is hosting the data.
ADVICE - read the manual (online) and use the forum search feature (upper right hand corner) before posting.
Chances are very good you will find your answer.


It is a recommended to use RAID. It is also recommended to have external backups. RAID is designed to protect you from disk failure and keep your system running and data accessible while the disk is replaced and the RAID rebuilt. Backups will allow you to recover data that is lost or corrupted, or from catastrophic system failure. One does not replace the other.

Bugs and feature requests need to be submitted to QNAP via their helpdesk.

Online Manuals
QNAP Helpdesk

NAS: TVS-882BR | F/W: 4.3.3.0299
NAS: TVS-663 | F/W: 4.3.3.0299
N/W: Netgear NightHawk R7800 router | SMC gigabit switch

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby mieses » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:31 am

If using RAID-5, do I pay for N or N-1 drives? If using RAID-1, then do I pay for N or N/2 drives? If the monthly cost is calculated per physical (N) drives then a less risky RAID-1 customer would be paying twice the monthly rate as the the more risky RAID-0 customer for the same amount of backup capacity. I don't understand how that would make sense to either the customer or to Symform.

Given how LiveDrive, another cloud backup company, just lost all their customers' data, I would really be wary of cloud backup services. A better strategy would be to backup directly to S3 and to cut out the middle-man, using the model of the Arq backup program for Macs, even if it costs a little bit more. (seems like an opportunity for an enterprising Qnap app developer!).

EDIT: Just noticed the adjusted 50/mo-500/yr pricing per Qnap device. It makes more sense. Still have concerns about the reliability of such companies.
Last edited by mieses on Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby jots » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:50 pm

I have been testing the free service, advertised for 200 GB, but really only 100 GB, and that's if you also share over 100 GB of your personal space. After reading this thread, I have decided to kill this service on my QNAP. The constantly chaining price plans and deceptive advertising should make QNAP reconsider it's relationship with Symform.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby Symform » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:35 am

Hi Jots,
Sorry for the confusion and frustration. We are not attempting to deceive our customers in any way. We are working with QNAP to fix this point of confusion. The correct message on our tab in QNAP should read UP TO 200GB free. Here is how you can get up to 200GB free http://www.symform.com/free-cloud-storage.aspx. This link is also on our QNAP page at http://www.symform.com/qnap (Third bullet point).

Again, we apologize for any confusion and appreciate your comments and feedback. If there is anything else we can do for you, please feel free to reach out at any time.
Symform Support Team

Symform, inc.

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Re: Symform is trying to let you pay way more than advertise

Postby comput1 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:22 pm

jots wrote:I have been testing the free service, advertised for 200 GB, but really only 100 GB, and that's if you also share over 100 GB of your personal space. After reading this thread, I have decided to kill this service on my QNAP. The constantly chaining price plans and deceptive advertising should make QNAP reconsider it's relationship with Symform.


Agreed. This is starting to look like a scam. Our SOHO NAS should be more valuable and considered more reliable to SYMFORM and they should be discounting us, never mind doubling the cost for us to use a 1 disk NAS.

Poor effort SYMFORM.


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