TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Questions about using NAS on Mac OS.
hlpbob007
Starting out
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:12 am

TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by hlpbob007 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:13 am

Dear All,

I am using TimeMachine to backup my macbookpro. Today at 7:55 I had my last backup, then I updated the firmware in the QNAP NAS to QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015. Since then the TimeMachine cannot connect to the NAS. I can access to the NAS via SMB to see some files. I tried to manually connect from Finder with AFP it logs in. (username is the usual TimeMachine) In the QNAP HBS3 every set up remained as before. SMB running on 3.1. What I am getting from the macbookpro if I would like to run a backup: Backup Disk is not Available.

QNAP TS-431P
QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015
macOSX Catalina 10.15.7 (19H2)

There is a note in the QTS release: https://www.qnap.com/en/release-notes/q ... 6/20201015
HBS 3 (Hybrid Backup Sync 3) now replaces Backup Station as the built-in backup application.

Maybe this caused the error, but I am not sure. I know my backups worked several times per day, but now none of them will run. Does anybody have any idea, what can I check or do? Or shall I simply send a bug note to QTS?

Many thanks in advance!

Cheers
Bob

hlpbob007
Starting out
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:12 am

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by hlpbob007 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:53 pm

In the mean time there was a new firmware update, but this has the same error still :)

Does anybody experienced the same behaviour with TimeMachine?

Thanks in advance!

darkolo
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by darkolo » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:54 pm

The problems is that AFP is not working, at least with QTS 4.5.1.1465. The only solution is to restart the NAS, for the moment.
I'm thinking to downgrade to 4.5.1.1461

torch1
Know my way around
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:53 am

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by torch1 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:11 am

Development on AFP stopped at Mac OSX 10.8 - it is basically deprecated in favor of SMB, which has continued to evolve (latest in 10.15).
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210803
If you haven't yet, I suggest you disable AFP on the QNAP. No issues that I have seen with SMB including Time Machine over SMB.

Darthajack
Starting out
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Darthajack » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:31 pm

I have the same issue, just upgraded from 4.4.x.x to 4.5.1.1480 and Time Machine stopped working, can't find the disk. I had always been backing on Mojave and Catalina without a problem, ever. I am using an SMB connection, So just now I upgraded to Big Sur, and it's still not working. Disk is not available. Clearly something wrong with the NAS.
Maybe an additional observation. A few times before, tried to update HBS3 and it got stuck, had to cancel and reboot.

Just now, uninstalled and reinstalled HSB3, still not working. Mac just can't find the "disk". But I can see it in Finder on the network. Could be broken permissions? Worth to note that even after uninstalling and reinstalling HSB3, and rebooting, old HSB3 settings were still there.

Darthajack
Starting out
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Darthajack » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:43 am

Darthajack wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:31 pm
I have the same issue, just upgraded from 4.4.x.x to 4.5.1.1480 and Time Machine stopped working, can't find the disk. I had always been backing on Mojave and Catalina without a problem, ever. I am using an SMB connection, So just now I upgraded to Big Sur, and it's still not working. Disk is not available. Clearly something wrong with the NAS.
Maybe an additional observation. A few times before, tried to update HBS3 and it got stuck, had to cancel and reboot.

Just now, uninstalled and reinstalled HSB3, still not working. Mac just can't find the "disk". But I can see it in Finder on the network. Could be broken permissions? Worth to note that even after uninstalling and reinstalling HSB3, and rebooting, old HSB3 settings were still there.
Follow up: It’s at NAS issue, not the Mac. Tried on another Mac and it also can’t authenticate.

I tried removing the disk from Time Machine on the Mac. Tried re-adding it and can't connect. It can't authenticate. But I have reset the password on the NAS and made sure they match up, but Time Machine still can't access.

Finally, tried on another Mac that was using Time Machine. Can’t access the Time Machine share, credentials not working. Definitively a QNAP NAS problem.

Darthajack
Starting out
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Darthajack » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:05 pm

After trying everything I could think of, I finally tried to reset settings on the NAS. Lost all users and shares (not the data, just need to reconfigure), but it also uninstalled and reset HBS3. I was hoping that would fix the problem. It did not. Still can't connect. But the existing backups are still there.

I make a support ticket, will report back.

Bob Zelin
Experience counts
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Orlando, FL.
Contact:

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Bob Zelin » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:04 am

Hello everyone -
No more AFP file sharing
Way back in 2013, Apple switched macOS’ default file sharing protocol from the venerable AFP (Apple Filing Protocol) to the more common SMB (Server Message Block) protocol. But AFP has stuck around in a deprecated, no-longer-improving form in the years since, working as a fallback option or a bridge to older versions of macOS with outdated SMB implementations.

Big Sur finally removes AFP support from the operating system entirely; you’ll no longer find it listed as an option in any of the file-sharing settings. File sharing is still handled exclusively from within the Sharing preference pane, and Big Sur’s SMB version—3.02, the second-from-newest version currently available—is the same as it was in Catalina.

from this new article -
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11 ... review/12/

BUT LETS BLAME QNAP ! Yea !

Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin / Rescue 1, Inc.
http://www.bobzelin.com

Darthajack
Starting out
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Darthajack » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:58 pm

I upgraded to Big Sur, and the QNAP AFP mounts show up in Finder, and I've managed to get Time Machine to work on the AFP mounts (but TMBackup share stopped working with SMB). So it seems AFP *does* work in Big Sur.

Darthajack
Starting out
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Darthajack » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:53 am

WORKAROUND: create a new share.
As I posted in other threads, the shared TMBackup folder using the built-in "TimeMachine" username wouldn't work anymore. QNAP never replied to the ticket. My workaround, which now works fine on all computers, was to use the other Time Machine backup option of having different users back up. Created a new user (probably optional, you could use your own QNAP user account), a new shared drive, assigned it as a Time Machine folder in properties, moved backups from TMBackup to the new folder, pointed Time Machine to the new folder on all computes and backups resumed where they were last.

UPDATE: I just spent an hour with support person accessing my Mac with Teamviewer, and trying countless things on the NAS and the Mac. Simple cannot login to TMBackup with the TimeMachine account by SMB anymore. Authentication fails.

Seems to work if you turn off SMB and use AFP though. So, yeah, again, AFP works on Big Sur.

hlpbob007
Starting out
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:12 am

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by hlpbob007 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:04 pm

Hi,

So I also had a session with QNAP support + TeamViewer and we created a workaround, which is now shared internally and also posted to the dev team in QNAP to resolve the issue.

Here is the workaround to have TimeMachine on SMB (independent OSX, however I have BigSur as well)

PRE WORK please check in HBS3 if TimeMachine service up and running
--> enable both options in TimeMachine Service in HBS3:
1. use shared TimeMachine account
2. access with local QTS account (user has to have permission on that share)


1) Control Panel / Priviliges / shared folders / create
- Foldername: (does not matter, but we picked this) TMBackupSMB
- IMPORTANT: path - enter path manually then select here from the dropdown /.timemachine <-- YOU MUST HAVE THAT !!! (at least this is how it is called for me!)
- IMPORTANT 2: if you did prework, then scroll down here and you will NEED to find this: Set this folder as aTimeMachine Backup .... you need to tick the box (if you do not do it, it won't be recognised by your MAC over SMB!

After creating the SharedFolder you can check if it shows up in the Mac's TimeMachine app.
You can also verify if you did the right thing by checking TMBackup and TMBackupSMB parameters liek (size, folders, files... ) ALL MUST BE THE SAME!

If it shows up you can try to login to this TMBackupSMB (or whatever it is called) over SMB with the TimeMachine user and password (it will fail)

2) Now comes the fun part (which is the real workaround) you need to login to the QNAP over the shell
add the TimeMachine user manually to /etc/config/smb.conf according to template of other users in that file
write list = @"administrators","admin","xxxx","xxxxx","TimeMachine"
valid users = "root",@"administrators","admin","xxx","xxxxx","TimeMachine"
SAVE THE smb.conf !!!
-> after the restart smb service -> /etc/init.d/smb.sh restart


By doing 2) you will force the "original HBS3 TimeMachine" user and password to be used in the newly created TMBackupSMB shared folder. However you cannot do this over the QNAP GUI because the original HBS3 TimeMachine user is a "secret/special" user it won't show up your user list if you try to add in the GUI. The shell is the only way to do it.

After this open up Time Machine in your Mac, TMBackupSMB will pop up (as it happened after 1) ) and login with the original Time Machine user and pass over SMB and it will work.


I need to monitor the following QNAP QTS updates if the original TMBackup with the original TimeMacine user will work, until then this is the only way to force Time Machine over SMB. (for me AFP only worked with the QNAP admin pass!!!)
I asked the support colleague to mark this in the release notes I hope we will see it when they solved the problem.

When a new QTS comes out, install the firmware, go in the Mac to Time Machine the original TMBackup should be always there, simply click on it, login with HBS3 TimeMachine user and pass (i clicked REPLACE because I have only 1 backup disk) then let's wait if it logs in, if yes problem solved, if not wait for the next FW release.

Let me know if the description is not good enough I can provide some pictures of the setups if needed.

hlpbob007
Starting out
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:12 am

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by hlpbob007 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:06 pm

There is also a point to check, what we found out during the TeamViewer support session:

From the QNAP expert in my ticket:
"I guess the handling on BigSur regarding SMB has changed.
If the user wants to use the TimeMachine user with a QTS shared folder enabled for TM Backups then MAC OS throws an error "authentication failed" if the password and user is correct. If the credentials are wrong then the dialog shakes as expected.
With the above workaround it seems to work. The TMBackup starts."

You can also check if you would like to login over SMB with the HBS3 original TimeMachine user and pass and just hit an error in the password, then you get the shaking screen. If you enter the right password "authentication failed" :)


Info for users who does not have Big Sur I started this with QNAP before the Big Sur, therefore for me the error in that time was: "Backup Disk is not Available"

++ Info:
I managed also to use the original TMBackup over AFP with QNAP NAS admin user. over SMB did not worked for me.
Why I contacted with QNAP is because I wanted my TimeMachine user back and not handling backups over admin user/pass.
If you are fine, you can try also QNAP NAS admin user/pass over SMB and AFP one or other should reach your original backups and will run as well.

Robert_73
Starting out
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:11 am

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Robert_73 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:39 am

I had both my boxes TS-253PRO and TS-677 installed in separate location thus different networks and with Time Machine over SMB. It worked perfectly with QTS 4.4.3 and still works with QTS 4.5.1 regardless of the MACOS - also migrated from Catalina to Big Sur.

So eventual bug is not so obvious.
Model: TS-677-1600 BIOS QZ14AR10 FW: 4.5.3.x
HDD: 4 x 10TB Seagate Exos X10 (ST10000NM0086), EXT4, RAID6
M2: 2 x 2TB Samsung 860 EVO, EXT4, RAID1
SSD: 2 x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO, EXT4, RAID1
QM2-2S-220A: 2 x 1TB Samsung 860 EVO, EXT4, RAID1
RAM: 64GB (4 x 16GB) SAMSUNG M378A2K43BB1-CRC
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce 1050Ti 4GB (GV-N105TD5-4GD)

-------
Model: TS-253Pro BIOS QW37AR32 FW: 4.5.3.x
HDD: 2 x 6TB Seagate Enterprise NAS (ST6000VN0001), EXT4, RAID1
RAM: 8GB (1 x 8GB) ADATA ADDS1600W8G11

Darthajack
Starting out
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by Darthajack » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:43 pm

The workaround from @hlpbob007 is a bit complicated. You can just create a new shared folder, set as a Time Machine backup in properties, create a new user (say, TMaccount), and make all Macs use that account and folder. That has been the working solution for me, haven't gone back to the TimeMachine and TMBackup method. However I did have a teamviewer session, they can't figure out what is happening. I'm also enabled a Remote Support session, they will check a few more things. If you don't want to start backups from scratch just copy the contents of TMBackup over to your new folder. It will resume where you last backed up.

Note, this has nothing to do with Big Sur. The issue was happening for me on Catalina, and persisted after upgrading to Big Sur. Same issue on another Mac with Mojave. It's also not related to QTS 4.5.x.xxxx, the issue happened with QTS 4.4.x.xxxx and persisted after upgrading to QTS 4.5.

hlpbob007
Starting out
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:12 am

Re: TimeMachine not working after QTS 4.5.1.1456 build 20201015 update

Post by hlpbob007 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:46 am

After updating to QTS 4.5.1.1540 build 20210107 i still have the same problem. I reported to QNAP Support.

Post Reply

Return to “Mac OS”