Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Questions about using NAS on Mac OS.
churaw
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Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by churaw » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 pm

I just purchased a QS-419P - I loaded it with 4 1Tb Seagate Caviar Black drives and configured everything pretty much to spec for a RAID 5 configuration. I have updated the Firmware to 3.2.4. It seems to be running fine from a basic operating standpoint.

However, I am 100% Mac at my house and I was counting on AFP and the support for Time Machine. After attempting to use search for some of my errors here I have found that there are many people with AFP issues.
My Erros Include:
    Shares randomly drop
    Time Machine works sometimes, others it starts to run but will not mount the Time Machine Volume - A couple of times once it started doing the back up it dropped.
    I've even had the NAS lock up to the point were volumes would not mount and it was unresponsive to QFinder and the Front Panel buttons. I have had to 'hard down' this thing twice.....

I could not find one, but I was wondering if there was a single master thread in here that gives all of the known AFP issues and what work arounds/fixes have been found?
    I read something about Oplocks but not everyone agreed with that?
    It seems everyone seems to think you need to supress the macs hidden desktop management files on the network shares?
    I did not see anyone with my time machine problems but I could have missed it.
    Mention of turning off TCP/IP v6...?
    Workgroup membership matters?


Any help would be apprecaited. I am really not wild about returning this thing but I may have to if I can not get it stable.

Thanks in advance,
Chuck

sodium
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by sodium » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:34 pm

I could not find one, but I was wondering if there was a single master thread in here that gives all of the known AFP issues and what work arounds/fixes have been found?
Nope, you have to read a lot until you solve your troubles :)

read something about Oplocks but not everyone agreed with that?
True, IMHO oplocks solve things in a combined or samba world afp only nas should not have any troubles

It seems everyone seems to think you need to supress the macs hidden desktop management files on the network shares?
True in combined enviroment as the umask of SAMBA and AFP differ...

I did not see anyone with my time machine problems but I could have missed it.
it should work just fine (running smoothly for 1 year now :)

Mention of turning off TCP/IP v6...?
Unless you totally understand the protocol and how to configure it (and you have a IPv6 tunnel) it is much safer to turn it off completly (at mac side AND on the NAS side)
mac side: check that IPv6 is disabled ( in System Preferences: Network : Advanced : interface in use > Configure IPv6 : Off)

Workgroup membership matters?
you told us you are a 100% Mac house workgroup != apple zone...

you missed some:
- check that MTU matches the MTU of the Network ( in System Preferences: Network : Advanced : interface in use : Ethernet tab )
- Do NOT use EXT4 (unstable, no improvement, not worth the hassle)
Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes & lost data. Guess which has occurred.

gsarbia
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by gsarbia » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:21 pm

churaw wrote:I could not find one, but I was wondering if there was a single master thread in here that gives all of the known AFP issues and what work arounds/fixes have been found?

If you look at all my initial posts, they're all in the most relevant threads about AFP issues, so you can look at my posts to locate several interesting threads.
churaw wrote:Any help would be apprecaited. I am really not wild about returning this thing but I may have to if I can not get it stable.

I'd suggest you to wait until the next firmware release, expected in two weeks, and to use SMB in the meanwhile. I've been using SMB for a week now to transfer data from Macs to my TS-410 with no problems.
HTH.
Best regards,
Giovanni

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TryWait
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by TryWait » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:17 am

This reminds me of the Roku forums. Not much if any support from the manufacturer, a bunch of Mac folks talking to one another and not gaining much headway. So glad that I have a 419P arriving tomorrow. Wondering if I should just return it immediately and not bother banging my brains out. Get a Netgear. No eSATA port but I just read a post that suggested that the network transfer of files may be faster anyway.

All in all, very encouraging. Thanks, qNAP! :)
TS-419P , 4x WD 3TB Red NAS 3.5 Inch, WD30EFRX HD's RAID5 :: QNAP Firmware 4.1.1
iMac 3.1 GHz Core Duo 16GB . OSX 10.7.5 | Dell XPS M1330 2.4 GHz Core Duo 3GB . Vista SP 6.0.6001
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sl1000
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by sl1000 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:09 am

pfff TryWait, don't be so grumpy.
Qnap personell together post 10.000's of posts each year helping people out. also a whole community helps each other the best they can.
OK QNAP is not a product without errors, but those products simply don't exist. At least QNAP is quick to fix the bugs found.
besides that, A lot of problems posted here are also because of lack of network or operating system knowledge, not because the QNAP isn't working as it should.
In my opinion the QNAP is one of the best and most versatile products in the price range. But if you don't believe it, please do buy a Netgear, and get irritated about it shortcomings on their fora....
Try searching the perfect online manual, forum or the Wiki for answers before posting
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hammo
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by hammo » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:12 am

sl1000 - well said!

People seem to think that the QNAPs are a 'jesus' device, that can do anything and everything. Like all platforms, they have their quirks. I'm a happy Mac user with no real concerns. Samba turned off, AFP only, ext4 - all working really well.

oli
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by oli » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:52 am

Hi,

I also have a TS-419P that I use as a file server and Time Machine for my Mac. Unfortunately, when using AFP, it get stuck quite often. It is not frozen, but like stuck reading or writing, I can hear the HDD working. I tried to wait and after 12hours, still the same state. It happen also with Time Machine. I have tried to restart it with the web interface, the menu on the QNAP and the command line but the only solution is a hard shutdown. I have the last firmware and the hidden files are disabled.

I'm not sure what to do to fix it, any suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks
Olivier

gsarbia
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by gsarbia » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:42 am

hammo wrote:Samba turned off, AFP only, ext4 - all working really well.

It's good that this is working for you, but I haven't seen any post from you where you share how you made this possible. As soon as I started using my brand new TS-410 with its latest firmware, a couple of AFP file transfers caused the whole thing to crash. And, looking at these fora, it seems that lots of people are in the same position.

I don't think anyone expects QNAP devices to be "jesus" devices, and certainly no one expects them to be a "platform". I work as presales in the software industry, so I'm well aware that customers can overreact when facing unexpected behaviour in key workflows, and with QNAP it looks like most customers, unsurprisingly, expect the device to work at least as a file server. Moreover, most customers would expect this to be the safest device where to persist their data in their network (backup is always needed, but it should be needed the least when related to data on a RAID-configured NAS). And, considering my personal experience and what I've read here, customer problems are not just "because of lack of network or operating system knowledge", as an earlier poster suggested.

Luckily QNAP, unlike some of their diehard-fans (and most of them seem to be resellers), has so far replied in a positive way, acknowledging that the current kernel is flawed and that a fix is underway. Probably one of the key problems is that QNAP has put so many features in their devices that some people are led to believe these are "jesus" devices and some people, like you, even use the term "platform" when naming these black boxes which are expected to be spotless file servers.

I'm glad that QNAP employees have acknowledged the issues raised by their customers, and hopefully those issues will be solved soon. In the meanwhile, I have fiddled a bit with the device OS and I've successfully tested SVN, which is useful indeed but really what I've bought is a NAS, it's not a Linux server.

I wish QNAP all the best, maybe one day they will really replace even web servers in SMBs, but currently I just wish they stick to their core business and fix their NAS, regardless of whichever OS (or magical potion, I don't care what's in there) they use. I need to copy files back and forth flawlessly, everything else is a good arcade game for geeks and nerds.

Best regards,
Giovanni

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sl1000
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by sl1000 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:23 am

Giovanni, I totally agree with you. The NAS should be rock solid for it's core duty: serving files. The rest is all nice "fluff".
It's bad that the arm based NAS have a flaw in the current firmware that EXT4 is not stable, but at least QNAP admits it and is working on the solution. There are enough vendors who simply wouldn't talk about it, and would let you sit in the mud for over half a year before fixing it. 3.2.5. is almost done, just a couple of days waiting and then the troubles with EXT4 should be gone.
The trouble with AFP is mostly caused by the Mac writing hidden system folders to the networkshare. It has been explained more then enough times how to disable that "feature" with a shell command to fix it. just do a search (top right corner).
Try searching the perfect online manual, forum or the Wiki for answers before posting
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smr
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by smr » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:47 pm

Windows files transfer without problems, however, the TS809U has not been able to accept files from a MAC over the LAN without interruption. I receive different error messages that a file name is too long, or the file already exists or the characters in a file name are invalid. In any case, as soon as the error message appears, the transfer stops and I'm not able to use the NAS for its intended purpose.

I read some of the other posts that suggest modifying settings on the MAC, but I'm not clear on the exact steps. If anyone from QNAP has these directions, that would be much appreciated.

Is the iSCSI target option a workaround for this problem?

sodium
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by sodium » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:20 pm

gsarbia wrote:
hammo wrote:Samba turned off, AFP only, ext4 - all working really well.

It's good that this is working for you, but I haven't seen any post from you where you share how you made this possible. As soon as I started using my brand new TS-410 with its latest firmware, a couple of AFP file transfers caused the whole thing to crash. And, looking at these fora, it seems that lots of people are in the same position.


Happy Easter to you too :)

Do not out your frustration of failing to configure a NAS on a user who has done it....
All the problems I have seen in the forum are due configuration errors/wrong combination of options or hardware /etc
I am also very very happy with the speed and options of the QNAP hardware.

I'll write a manual (in the future) explaining the right setup and post it here as I did with the TimeMachine backup

my 2 cents
Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes & lost data. Guess which has occurred.

oli
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by oli » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:07 pm

sl1000 wrote: 3.2.5. is almost done, just a couple of days waiting and then the troubles with EXT4 should be gone.

Good to read that a new firmware is coming. As I'm using EXT4, I really hope this new version will fix my TS-419.

Thanks
Olivier

hammo
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by hammo » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:25 pm

gsarbia wrote:
hammo wrote:Samba turned off, AFP only, ext4 - all working really well.

It's good that this is working for you, but I haven't seen any post from you where you share how you made this possible. As soon as I started using my brand new TS-410 with its latest firmware, a couple of AFP file transfers caused the whole thing to crash. And, looking at these fora, it seems that lots of people are in the same position.


I'm genuinely disappointed for those who are having troubles, but I'm on an Intel based 459, and everything works. I chose the 459 specifically to avoid the ARM platform at all costs - I've been reading for a while that Intel were releasing special Atom processors for storage and figured that the market would be heading that way. I've had one gripe with SAMBA shares reporting incorrect file sizes and that got fixed in under two weeks. For me the whole QNAP experience has been rather positive.

chatfan
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by chatfan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:10 pm

The easiest way I found to get a solid time machine disk from one of my qnaps (809, 509 and 410) was to use iSCSI.

sodium
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Re: Mac Issue Summary? Is there One?

Post by sodium » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:13 pm

chatfan wrote:The easiest way I found to get a solid time machine disk from one of my qnaps (809, 509 and 410) was to use iSCSI.


but keep in mind that with this option (using iSCSI) it is impossible to do a total system restore (for a system restore you'll need to boot from the install DVD -- and thus the iSCSI driver is not available)
Three things in life are certain: Death, taxes & lost data. Guess which has occurred.

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