Configure Apple Airport Extreme

[dhodory]

Ok, I've read several posts on this and must be doing something wrong. Here's my set up:
DSL modem (modem only, no router) attached to Apple Airport Extreme (running Airport Admin 6.x). QNAP 639 Pro attached via ethernet to Airport Extreme. iMac attached to Airport Extreme via 802.11n wifi.

When I configure "network" in the Airport Extreme admin software and set up port forwarding (port 80) using DHCP and NAT and calling out the QNAP's MAC address, when I apply those changes to the Airport Extreme, my iMac can no longer see the Airport Extreme - as a result I cannot see the QNAP NAS nor can I get to the internet.

What am I doing wrong? Network noob here.

[pwilson]

Ok, I've read several posts on this and must be doing something wrong. Here's my set up:
DSL modem (modem only, no router) attached to Apple Airport Extreme (running Airport Admin 6.x). QNAP 639 Pro attached via ethernet to Airport Extreme. iMac attached to Airport Extreme via 802.11n wifi.

When I configure "network" in the Airport Extreme admin software and set up port forwarding (port 80) using DHCP and NAT and calling out the QNAP's MAC address, when I apply those changes to the Airport Extreme, my iMac can no longer see the Airport Extreme - as a result I cannot see the QNAP NAS nor can I get to the internet.

What am I doing wrong? Network noob here.

1. We aren't Apple Support.
2. Does QNAP QFinder see your NAS?
3. Is your NAS setup to pickup it's IP address via DHCP or is it statically assigned?
4. What Version/Build numbers of QNAP Firmware are you running?
5. Have you submitted a ticket with the QNAP Helpdesk yet?
6. Have you ever read article: When you're asking a question, please include the following ?

[dhodory]

1. We aren't Apple Support.
2. Does QNAP QFinder see your Router?
3. Is your NAS setup to pickup it's IP address via DHCP or is it statically assigned?
4. What Version/Build numbers of QNAP Firmware are you running?
5. Have you submitted a ticket with the QNAP Helpdesk yet?
6. Have you ever read article: When you're asking a question, please include the following ?

1. Thanks for the tip, very helpful. Seriously though, I wasn't coming to QNAP's official support forums in the hopes of getting Apple to reply, I promise. I was hoping that I might get someone who owns an Apple AirPort Extreme (AE) and has been able to address this issue to reply and help me resolve my issue. I don't know if I'm mis-reading your tone, but as a Mod representing QNAP's official support forum, your initial reply RE: Apple support came off as the opposite of helpful and polite - which is not what I would expect from someone representing QNAP to its users in an official capacity (paid or not). Then again, maybe I'm just mis-reading your tone.

2. QFinder sees my NAS but not the router, right now, probably because I have the router mode set to "Off (Bridge Mode)" right now. Previously I had it set to "DHCP and NAT", however once I applied that setting, I got booted off my own wifi network, so I couldn't tell you if QFinder would have seen my Apple AE router then. I went through that cycle about 5 or 6 times trying different Apple AE settings, all to no avail, which required full Apple AE reset each time, then reconfigure to a known good configuration (so I could get my iMac back on the network) - this blew about 4 hours yesterday, so I'm a little frustrated by the Apple AE (and what it makes it difficult to do) and with my own lack of knowledge of how to make the proper adjustments/settings to my network configuration to make this work. Would really love to be able to access my QNAP NAS from work (or my iPhone/iPad for that matter).

3. Right now my NAS is set to get its IP via DHCP, however, when I was attempting to configure it as described in my first post, I had it set to static IP (and had configured my Apple AE to recognize its IP and MAC address).

4. Version 4.0.3

5. No, not yet. Came here first in an attempt to get help from the QNAP user community.

6. No - so my bad. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if it would have helped, as I have no idea what "trunking" is. I've built several PCs over the years (even a Hackintosh), but networking is still pretty much akin to "voodoo" to me.

I'm running OS X Mavericks right now.

[randomguy]

If I was you, I would try to break it down into a 2 step process. Get back to the state where things are working and you can see your qnap. Then, don't configure the MAC address reservation or the DHCP settings, instead just enable port forwarding based on the current IP of the QNAP. If that works and you can still connect to your QNAP over the wireless, you can then try the DHCP settings and MAC addr reservation.

[pwilson]

1. We aren't Apple Support.
2. Does QNAP QFinder see your Router?
3. Is your NAS setup to pickup it's IP address via DHCP or is it statically assigned?
4. What Version/Build numbers of QNAP Firmware are you running?
5. Have you submitted a ticket with the QNAP Helpdesk yet?
6. Have you ever read article: When you're asking a question, please include the following ?

1. Thanks for the tip, very helpful. Seriously though, I wasn't coming to QNAP's official support forums in the hopes of getting Apple to reply, I promise. I was hoping that I might get someone who owns an Apple AirPort Extreme (AE) and has been able to address this issue to reply and help me resolve my issue. I don't know if I'm mis-reading your tone, but as a Mod representing QNAP's official support forum, your initial reply RE: Apple support came off as the opposite of helpful and polite - which is not what I would expect from someone representing QNAP to its users in an official capacity (paid or not). Then again, maybe I'm just mis-reading your tone.

Sorry to disappoint, but this isn't QNAP's official support forums either. This is the QNAP NAS Community Forum. Most of us are customers just like you.

2. QFinder sees my NAS but not the router, right now, probably because I have the router mode set to "Off (Bridge Mode)" right now. Previously I had it set to "DHCP and NAT", however once I applied that setting, I got booted off my own wifi network, so I couldn't tell you if QFinder would have seen my Apple AE router then. I went through that cycle about 5 or 6 times trying different Apple AE settings, all to no avail, which required full Apple AE reset each time, then reconfigure to a known good configuration (so I could get my iMac back on the network) - this blew about 4 hours yesterday, so I'm a little frustrated by the Apple AE (and what it makes it difficult to do) and with my own lack of knowledge of how to make the proper adjustments/settings to my network configuration to make this work. Would really love to be able to access my QNAP NAS from work (or my iPhone/iPad for that matter).

This shouldn't be a problem, as long as both devices are connected to the same AP. QFinder uses broadcasts to find the NAS. "DHCP and NAT" is probably the correct setting. If you set the NAS to use DHCP, you can use DHCP Reservation on the AE to ensure that the NAS always gets the same IP address via DHCP. (See Mac Observer article: How to Configure a Static DHCP Reservation with Airport Extreme.

Your devices will need to reconnect to the AE after this change has been made, which is probably what happened last time you tired to use this setting.

3. Right now my NAS is set to get its IP via DHCP, however, when I was attempting to configure it as described in my first post, I had it set to static IP (and had configured my Apple AE to recognize its IP and MAC address).

See my response in #2 above.

4. Version 4.0.3

Thank-you.

5. No, not yet. Came here first in an attempt to get help from the QNAP user community.

Submit a ticket. You can always cancel it if you resolve it yourself.

6. No - so my bad. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if it would have helped, as I have no idea what "trunking" is. I've built several PCs over the years (even a Hackintosh), but networking is still pretty much akin to "voodoo" to me.

I'm running OS X Mavericks right now.

Thank-you for these answers.

[schumaku]

1. Thanks for the tip, very helpful. Seriously though, I wasn't coming to QNAP's official support forums in the hopes of getting Apple to reply, I promise.

Same applies on Apple Support Communities by the way - it's not formal support channel there, Apple is not obliged to follow and answer any postings.

2. QFinder sees my NAS but not the router, ...

Qfinder does not care about any routers - it will never show any routers. Patrick asked if it can find the NAS, what apparently works.

...right now, probably because I have the router mode set to "Off (Bridge Mode)" right now.

Definitively the wrong configuration for what suppose to act as an Internet router, supporting NAT port forwarding. Now your computer (and prolly the NAS, or which ever computers or mobiles are first) will acquire the public IP address(es) available on your Internet connection (typically just one).

Previously I had it set to "DHCP and NAT", however once I applied that setting, I got booted off my own wifi network, so I couldn't tell you if QFinder would have seen my Apple AE router then.

Again, Qfinder does not need to find your router. Aehm, your AE is the access point of your WiFi network, isn't it?

Does your AE work after the reset to default as a (NAT) router, is the WAN/Internet port connected to your Internet modem, one of the LAN ports to the QNAP NAS, and your computer is connected to the WiFi, able to reach the Internet - and Qfinder able to discover the NAS on the LAN?

If from this status reserving the NAS MAC address in the AE DHCP and adding simple port mappings like 80 [NAS-LAN-IP-address] 80 and 443 [NAS-LAN-IP-address] 443 don't work and break the Internet connection, as well as the ability to manage the AE (no, there is no Web sever on the Airport Extreme...) the QNAP community most likely can't help, unless somebody experienced the similar problem and found an issue.

I went through that cycle about 5 or 6 times trying different Apple AE settings, all to no avail, ...

You only need one setting, thre is no variance - add a reservation of the NAS MAC in DHCP, and add some one-to-one ports mapped to the reserved NAS LAN IP address.

... which required full Apple AE reset each time, then reconfigure to a known good configuration (so I could get my iMac back on the network) - this blew about 4 hours yesterday, so I'm a little frustrated by the Apple AE (and what it makes it difficult to do)...

Now you are right on the spot. While the config options on the AE are minimal, the way this stuff is configured is somewhat ... marginal or sub-standard. I think this is the last router vendor requiring utilities or apps to configure a router. Complain where complaints belong.

... and with my own lack of knowledge of how to make the proper adjustments/settings to my network configuration to make this work. Would really love to be able to access my QNAP NAS from work (or my iPhone/iPad for that matter).

Call up Apple Support, or make an appointment at the Apple Shop Genius Bar if you have one near - I'm convinced they are helpful and can assist you to a working configuration in a few minutes if you are uncertain.

3. Right now my NAS is set to get its IP via DHCP, however, when I was attempting to configure it as described in my first post, I had it set to static IP (and had configured my Apple AE to recognize its IP and MAC address).

With the NAS configured to a static IP, only the Port Mapping is required. The DHCP MAC reservation would be just a fall-back in case you do a rest on the NAS one day.

Regards,
-Kurt.

[dhodory]

If I was you, I would try to break it down into a 2 step process. Get back to the state where things are working and you can see your qnap. Then, don't configure the MAC address reservation or the DHCP settings, instead just enable port forwarding based on the current IP of the QNAP. If that works and you can still connect to your QNAP over the wireless, you can then try the DHCP settings and MAC addr reservation.

Thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, Apple in their wisdom does not allow traditional "port forwarding" on their AirPort Extreme routers. The previously described "DHCP and NAT" settings (with ports called out) *is* sort of the de-facto way to set up port forwarding on an Apple AEBS.

[dhodory]

Sorry to disappoint, but this isn't QNAP's official support forums either. This is the QNAP NAS Community Forum. Most of us are customers just like you.

Sorry semantic error - should not have written "official support forum", should have written "official forum". In either case, I believe my initial thought still stands - folks coming here for support on their QNAP products are going to connect "Official forum" and "QNAP" and what gets said here by Moderators will likely be at least somewhat of a reflection upon QNAP. If I were someone at QNAP, I'd consider it bad form for a Moderator of an official QNAP forum to greet my customers in a way that could be deemed as un-helpful or discourteous . . . but that's just one person's opinion and a compete tangent to what I'm trying to accomplish here, though I do enjoy a good debate.

This shouldn't be a problem, as long as both devices are connected to the same AP. QFinder uses broadcasts to find the NAS. "DHCP and NAT" is probably the correct setting. If you set the NAS to use DHCP, you can use DHCP Reservation on the AE to ensure that the NAS always gets the same IP address via DHCP. (See Mac Observer article: How to Configure a Static DHCP Reservation with Airport Extreme.

Your devices will need to reconnect to the AE after this change has been made, which is probably what happened last time you tired to use this setting.

Excellent - thank you. Will try this once I'm back home from work travel.

Submit a ticket. You can always cancel it if you resolve it yourself.

Went ahead and submitted a support ticket after your initial response/suggestion. Got an initial reply/suggestion, but it was pretty generic and assumed that I knew a lot more than I do; also the suggestion was non-Apple AEBS specific. So it turned out not to be too useful. I've since posted on the Apple Community Forum, hoping perhaps to get a response there.

Thanks you for the follow up response. Much appreciated.

[dhodory]

1. Thanks for the tip, very helpful. Seriously though, I wasn't coming to QNAP's official support forums in the hopes of getting Apple to reply, I promise.

Same applies on Apple Support Communities by the way - it's not formal support channel there, Apple is not obliged to follow and answer any postings.

2. QFinder sees my NAS but not the router, ...

Qfinder does not care about any routers - it will never show any routers. Patrick asked if it can find the NAS, what apparently works.

...right now, probably because I have the router mode set to "Off (Bridge Mode)" right now.

Definitively the wrong configuration for what suppose to act as an Internet router, supporting NAT port forwarding. Now your computer (and prolly the NAS, or which ever computers or mobiles are first) will acquire the public IP address(es) available on your Internet connection (typically just one).

Previously I had it set to "DHCP and NAT", however once I applied that setting, I got booted off my own wifi network, so I couldn't tell you if QFinder would have seen my Apple AE router then.

Again, Qfinder does not need to find your router. Aehm, your AE is the access point of your WiFi network, isn't it?

Does your AE work after the reset to default as a (NAT) router, is the WAN/Internet port connected to your Internet modem, one of the LAN ports to the QNAP NAS, and your computer is connected to the WiFi, able to reach the Internet - and Qfinder able to discover the NAS on the LAN?

If from this status reserving the NAS MAC address in the AE DHCP and adding simple port mappings like 80 [NAS-LAN-IP-address] 80 and 443 [NAS-LAN-IP-address] 443 don't work and break the Internet connection, as well as the ability to manage the AE (no, there is no Web sever on the Airport Extreme...) the QNAP community most likely can't help, unless somebody experienced the similar problem and found an issue.

I went through that cycle about 5 or 6 times trying different Apple AE settings, all to no avail, ...

You only need one setting, thre is no variance - add a reservation of the NAS MAC in DHCP, and add some one-to-one ports mapped to the reserved NAS LAN IP address.

... which required full Apple AE reset each time, then reconfigure to a known good configuration (so I could get my iMac back on the network) - this blew about 4 hours yesterday, so I'm a little frustrated by the Apple AE (and what it makes it difficult to do)...

Now you are right on the spot. While the config options on the AE are minimal, the way this stuff is configured is somewhat ... marginal or sub-standard. I think this is the last router vendor requiring utilities or apps to configure a router. Complain where complaints belong.

... and with my own lack of knowledge of how to make the proper adjustments/settings to my network configuration to make this work. Would really love to be able to access my QNAP NAS from work (or my iPhone/iPad for that matter).

Call up Apple Support, or make an appointment at the Apple Shop Genius Bar if you have one near - I'm convinced they are helpful and can assist you to a working configuration in a few minutes if you are uncertain.

3. Right now my NAS is set to get its IP via DHCP, however, when I was attempting to configure it as described in my first post, I had it set to static IP (and had configured my Apple AE to recognize its IP and MAC address).

With the NAS configured to a static IP, only the Port Mapping is required. The DHCP MAC reservation would be just a fall-back in case you do a rest on the NAS one day.

Regards,
-Kurt.

Kurt, thanks for replying. Couple points of clarification. I never indicated that QNAP or anyone else is obliged to monitor or provide responses here, merely that this *is* considered an "official" forum by QNAP (at least those are the words they use on their website to describe this forum) and that if I were QNAP, regardless of whether or not the folks policing my forum were paid QNAP volunteers or simply knowledgeable members of the QNAP user community, I wouldn't want said employees/volunteers greeting my existing customers brusquely. Branding is a funny thing -- sometimes a brand gets stuck with a reputation based on perceptions. I'm a member of many internet forums that span from A/V equipment to DIY home improvement, to automotive enthusiasts . . . and all of those forums have distinct cultures and norms for how you post, what you post and how you act on said forum. I think it's difficult to have a forum that is considered "official" and yet have it moderated by non-employees . . . as you have little to no control over how said volunteers respond, and yet their actions will impact your brand. The same cannot be said for just plain old vanilla "contributors" -- they're somewhat a different class or group because they're not filling any sort of official capacity and don't have authority to edit/delete a post. Just my two cents.

Actually if you go back and read Patrick's post, he did indeed specifically ask: "Does QNAP QFinder see your Router?" so that's what I was responding to.

Yes, my AEBS is the AP for my wifi network.
I'll go try the suggested configuration, but that last time I tried that, my AEBS told me that I had an IP address conflict.

My knowledge of networking is (obviously) very limited. I don't understand this specific statement: "add a reservation of the NAS MAC in DHCP, and add some one-to-one ports mapped to the reserved NAS LAN IP address". I may need to post some screen shots of the AEBS configuration screens to clarify what I'm seeing and so that I can map your responses to the "Apple universe".

Agree, for "base case" stuff, Apple products are probably easier for the average consumer to use. Anything outside of the envelope gets complicated fast -- at least that's been my experience.

I may end up making a Genius Bar appointment, however, my experience with the Apple Genius Bar has been similar to their products: when the problem in question is a common one (or one solved by replacing the product) the Genius Bar provides good service. As soon as you get into more "atypical" problems, the Genius Bar folks get shaky pretty fast.

What I *really* had hoped to find on this forum (needle in a haystack, I know) was someone with solid networking skills *and* a working knowledge of the Apple AEBS . . . but that seems to be a bit of a oxymoron.

Thanks for the MAC address advice -- makes sense.

[pwilson]

What I *really* had hoped to find on this forum (needle in a haystack, I know) was someone with solid networking skills *and* a working knowledge of the Apple AEBS . . .

Unfortunately I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone with "solid networking skills" actually using an Apple Router, even if they are "Mac" people.

[TeeDub]

Unfortunately I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone with "solid networking skills" actually using an Apple Router, even if they are "Mac" people.

LOL good one Pat

TW

[pwilson]

Unfortunately I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone with "solid networking skills" actually using an Apple Router, even if they are "Mac" people.

LOL good one Pat

TW

I wasn't actually trying to be funny. The product is built for "home users", and I'm sure it performs very well in this capacity. Serious networking people need better devices in corporate worlds.

[dhodory]

Ok, so have set up my QNAP NAS with a reserved IP address in my AirPort Utility (DHCP and NAT). Have also added Port Settings for "Remote Login- SSH", "Personal Web Sharing", "Mac OS X Server VPN - PPTP", "Personal File Sharing" and "FTP Access" using the port defaults described at the following link: http://docs.qnap.com/nas/en/index.html? ... ration.htm .

On the plus side, doing the above did not kick off my other devices this time (have no idea what I did differently either last time or this time - may have something to do with having tinkered with "Timed Access Control" last time and not this time). However, I still cannot access my QNAP NAS from the internet. Heck, I cannot even access my QNAP NAS from within the network by typing in the url: [qnap nas name].myqnapcloud.com. So I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here.

Ok, back on topic, anyone with any thoughts?

Also, the support ticket I put in did get a reply, but not useful at all, just a link to some generic (non-QNAP) web resources - so I'm still stuck. And your point is well taken, folks with solid networking skills typically don't use Apple networking products . . . which is why I acknowledged it was a "needle in a haystack" sort of thing in my earlier post.

UPDATE: Ok, so apparently this is *not* an Apple AirPort issue. Apparently my ISP's (Cincinnati Bell) modem also is a router (Westell 6100). For some reason, Cincinnati Bell mandates that the modem/router cannot be switched to Bridge mode if you do not subscribe to their "static" IP service. So now I need to set the AirPort to Bridge and then figure out how to port forward via the Westell 6100.

[pwilson]

I must admit, I find it a little . . . strange that QNAP would not provide explicit support on their website for Apple routers - I mean, what would it take, 8 hours for an experienced network engineer at QNAP to tinker with the settings and figure it out, type it up and post it? Apple computer and tablet sales are 19.5% of global sales (greater than Dell & HP *combined*) and my guess is that a high percentage (maybe 1/3 or 1/2?) of people with Apple computers or tablets also use Apple routers. Seems like an awfully big (potential) user community to ignore. Granted, QNAP NAS devices are not likely aimed at the casual Apple computer user, but QNAP seems to have taken the time to develop OS X software for their NAS devices, so why not provide explicit written instructions for their routers? Odd. Wonder if there's some sort of licensing issue or something with Apple (wouldn't surprise me)?

I'm glad you aren't my customer. Your expectations are huge.

Apple chose to build a router that is completely different from every other Router on the market, but you think a NAS manufacturer should document Apple's sorry excuse for a Router, simply because Apple represents 19.5% of the global PC/Tablet market. Perhaps you should find stats on how much of the global Router market Apple controls, (it will be far less than 19.5%, as they've built a product that is useless to Non-Apple owners, and they don't get 100% of their own PC/Tablet customers, as many are savvy enough to reject Apple's sorry excuse for a grossly overpriced Router device).

If you want support for your Router, talk to your Router manufacturer. QNAP is not responsible for your Apple Router, and nor are we. You bought it, so you get to configure it. QNAP doesn't provide support for any Router, and they shouldn't have to. QNAP does not manufacture, nor sell Routers. Your Router is built for the "average Mac home user", and it probably works very well for the target audience. As soon as you start trying to implement a File Server on your network, you are no longer an "average Mac home user". You need to configure your Router to work in your environment.

Your Router should be able to handle it, but configuration of this device is up to you. If you were running any other Router, we could probably help you. There are other Mac owners in this Forum, and I'm sure a few of them even use Apple Routers, so instead of complaining about QNAP, perhaps you should seek advice from others that are using similar hardware.

Why do you expect "8 hours for an experienced network engineer at QNAP to tinker with the settings and figure it out, type it up and post it". The rest of us configure our Routers in 10 minutes using the user manual for our Routers. It is admirable that you think "someone" should do this for you, but I would suggest that you should do this for the betterment of the Mac/Airport-Extreme members within this community, as you obviously have passion for this issue. Please register for QNAPedia "write" access, and type this up. (I'm sure future Mac/Apple-Extreme owners will appreciate your efforts on behalf of the community). Please include lots of screenshots, as most non-Apple users have probably never seen a Router than needs a computer (and specialized software) to configure it.

I'm sure you could spend 8 hours to "tinker with the settings and figure it out, type it up and post it". I'd do it for you, but I have no desire to give Apple any of my hard earned money for the hardware necessary to do this for you. Perhaps someone else who already owns such hardware could do it for you, if it exceeds your skill set.

8 Hours of "network engineer" labour with my employer would cost about $1200.00 CAD ($1080.00 USD), exclusive of travel/hotel expenses, so you might find it cheaper to simply invest in a "generic" Router for your network instead, if Apple's documentation doesn't permit doing this without a "network engineer".

Patrick.

(I do NOT work for QNAP).

[dhodory]

pwilson - QNAP is a business, they sell a product, they market said product to a specific user base (which includes people with Macs) and there's a high probability that said target consumers will be using an Apple router, and you think it is unreasonable for a manufacturer to amortize 8 hours of network engineer time (likely sourced from SE Asia, where the product is manufactured, at a rate likely far lower than US domestic hourly rates) across an entire product line. Even at the unlikely full USD rates you quote in your post, $1,200, amortizing that across an entire product line (have no idea what QNAP's unit sales are, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say more than 1,200 units/year), we're talking $1/unit or less At a likely sales volume of 10x that number per year, we'd be talking less than $0.10/unit. So while you have an interesting line of thought, pretty sure I don't agree with it from an economic point of view.

If you read the rest of my post, you'd see that I acknowledged that this issue is now known not to be Apple related. If find it both interesting and curious that you'd spend your (apparently very valuable) time to comment on something that, per my post, is no longer relevant to the technical problem at hand . . . but hey, it's *your* valuable time, to post-away.

In all seriousness, appreciate that help in this thread. It did eventually help me isolate the problem. Additionally, one of the frequent posters over at the Apple forums was the first to help me realize my issue was with my Cincinnati Bell modem/router.