Container Station loss of functionality

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oyvindo
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by oyvindo »

uwe_k wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:23 pm I manually installed the older version 2.3.5 over 2.4 and all containers are still working.
That's very good news!
Can you give a bit more info on which container you use, how many and what kind (Docker or LXC)?
How exactly did you do the downgrade? Did you first stop all running containers? Did you delete the containers, but left images and external path intact, and then recreate the container after downgrade?
What backup precautions did you make in case it failed and rendered everything in limbo?
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uwe_k
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by uwe_k »

HeIlo oyvindo,

I use only docker containers, no LXC containers.
I downloaded the old version and installed it manually with AppCenter.
No stopping, no deinstallation...
I have exported versions of my containers as a backup.

Uwe
vmsman
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by vmsman »

@oyvindo. If you need some help protecting your LXC containers, I will be glad to tag up with you. If you give me a time, I can run a jitsi session with you and show you what to watch out for. Tag up with me at vmsman@gmail.com. By the way, QNAP has acknowledged that this problem is widespread. The LXD issue has been escalated.
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by vmsman »

@gruntled I had an ARM based QNAP for a couple years. Keep in mind that both Docker and LXC/LXD derive their functionality from the host kernel of the QNAP. Depending on the Linux kernel support, your experience varies. For example, I have a buddy that has a TVS- QNAP and his LXC containers cannot embed Docker containers because of the lack of kernel support on his unit for cgroupfs. Yet, on my TS-877 and TS-1277 I can nest Docker containers inside my LXC containers.

Nesting is important because a lot of typical self-hosted applications like Bitwarden servers rely on the ability to nest containers. I have helped many QNAP users with container station. The front end GUI for container station appears somewhat limited, but it is really value added once you wrap your arms around the best practices for its use.

For others, my containerization blog (https://discussion.scottibyte.com/t/wha ... ontainers/) does not specifically call out LXD because LXD is a superset that adds to LXC rather than taking anything away. I find it strange that in QNAPs release notes of the new container station they mention obsoleting of LXC containers at the end of the year. Bottom line, if a system supports LXD, it must support LXC. I think what QNAP meant was that will no longer have an LXC container repository and so new containers will all be LXD.

LXD brings to the table the capability of cloning containers and also having "more" options to connect to LXD containers such as a callable API.
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oyvindo
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by oyvindo »

@vmsman, Thank you for clarifying things. QNAP's logical contradiction in their warning message; "LXC will be abandoned, please move to LXD" makes no sense. Most likely, what they actually mean, is exactly what you describe. But they surely scared me (and possibly a lot of others as well), who foresaw that my LXC containers would stop working sometime towards the end of 2021.
I surely hope that's not going to happen.

I am running VaultWarden docker image in CS, and I am not aware of any nesting (at least not something I did)?
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by FLaufenstein »

I have an ARM-based QNAP, and was already surprised that the Virtualization Station is not available for this device (should have returned it already at this point). I managed to setup everything I need via LXC though, which is now removed witout replacement (no LXD available for this device...), which is rendering the device borderline useless to me. Considering the poor configuration of built-in software, e.g. MariaDB, Apache and Plex, I will never again buy a QNAP device and also can't recommend to anyone else.
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oyvindo
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by oyvindo »

After several days of remote support from QNAP, they finally confirmed the following bug in the most recent Container Station update:
If you try to map a shared folder which has a very large number of files and subfolders (> 100k files and/or > 10k subfolders) then the QTS web UI will freeze immediately when you click "create", and the process will be terminated. You then have to reload the web page and discover that the attempt to create such a container, has failed.

I have not received any news as to when or if a fix will be released.
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Trexx
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by Trexx »

Does this also occur if creating the container via cli commands?


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oyvindo
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by oyvindo »

Trexx wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:39 am Does this also occur if creating the container via cli commands?
That I do not know because I don't know exactly how to do it, but if you "hold my hand" I'm willing to try 👍
(Strange that QNAP never mention that?)
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by klavikka »

I always read QTS change logs before updating the firmware. It's not uncommon that some functionality is removed. However, I missed the Container Station changelog and now I'm unable to create new LXC (or LXD!) containers.

In the marketing material QNAP claims that LXC containers are supported:
supports.png
Source: https://www.qnap.com/en/product/ts-231p3

.. but that's clearly not true. This is totally unacceptable! Support for LXC (or equivalent) was one of the reasons for choosing a QNAP. But apparently, if QNAP advertises a support for something, it means nothing.
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kurara
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by kurara »

Well, I can create LXD containers like debian without any problem.
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by klavikka »

kurara wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:48 pm Well, I can create LXD containers like debian without any problem.
That appears to not be possible on the Arm models. From the release notes:
- Supports searching images from the LXD image server for creating LXD containers on x86-64 models.
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by Paul Preney »

I took a look again at my QNAP (x86_64) and the Create option of Container Station shows tabs one of which is new (I don't remember seeing it earlier): "LXD Image Server". It lists Debian bullseye, buster, stretch, and sid each with an Install button. Its interface appears to be essentially the same as the LXC interface. Has QNAP said how long they will support LXD? I've little to no confidence that QNAP might remove such without or with very little warning.
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by Rello »

Paul Preney wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:36 am I took a look again at my QNAP (x86_64) and the Create option of Container Station shows tabs one of which is new (I don't remember seeing it earlier): "LXD Image Server". It lists Debian bullseye, buster, stretch, and sid each with an Install button. Its interface appears to be essentially the same as the LXC interface. Has QNAP said how long they will support LXD? I've little to no confidence that QNAP might remove such without or with very little warning.
I just used them the last ours several times. I have bash scripts to set up my instances like I need them.

Whats annoying:
  • once setup, the name can not be changed anymore (was working with LXC)
  • you can not export LXD Images. I used that to copy existing configs
  • Duplicate button is somehow useless?!? it recreates a new container from the previous downloaded image. It does NOT duplicate the existing container with all setup inside
especially the last one is anoying. for testing I simply export/imported template container frequently. not working anymore with the current version
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Re: Container Station loss of functionality

Post by kurara »

uwe_k wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:23 pm I manually installed the older version 2.3.5 over 2.4 and all containers are still working.

Uwe
Where can I download the older version 2.3.5? This link: https://download.qnap.com/QPKG/containe ... _arm64.zip doesn't work.
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