Quick question - EXOS are Enterprise drive.. why Ironwolf are more expensive?

[a13antichrist]

Just that.. From what I understand, EXOS are 'higher-reliability enterprise drives'. So why are they less expensive, per-GB, than the Ironwolf (even non-Pro)? Is there a catch?

ALso.. anyone tried mixing X16/X18/X20 *inside an array* and know the relationships? Are they close enough to be the same drives? Or not...

Thanks

[a13antichrist]

OK I found this: viewtopic.php?f=182&t=159912 which basically answers the main question.

[Bob Zelin]

you never heard my story ? (I have lots of stories) -

I went to the QNAP Tech Conference in San Jose California in October 2019 - this is just before QuTS was released.
And QNAP had different guest speakers get up. And one of them was the Seagate Rep, talking about how great Seagate drives were
for QNAP NAS systems.

So at the break, I went up to him and asked "how come the Seagate Ironwolf Pro drives are so much more expensive than the Seagate EXOS drives ?" -
and he replied to me
"gee - I don't know" -

and that sir - is the day I switched to Seagate EXOS drives, and have never looked back !
Bob Zelin

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

a few articles i read pointed out just cauz u buy these more pricier enterprise raid drives, doesn't necessarily mean they will be less failure prone. basically they are saying, doesn't seem likely you will get your bang for buck even if you opt to spend more for more premium product if you are expecting less failure prone/longevity versus the less premium models

so it all boils down to warranty, does the price justify for longer warranty for replacing drives when they do fail


https://www.backblaze.com/blog/enterpri ... liability/

https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... clear-cut/

https://lifehacker.com/why-enterprise-h ... 1476333889

https://www.quora.com/Are-enterprise-cl ... extra-cost

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2 ... rives.html


some of these articles are a bit dated. maybe the narrative has changed with the newer batch of enterprise drives? you can dyor



for home user, just the ironwolf non pro, or wd red plus should be more than sufficient. than just maintain a backup. if the drive fails under warranty, just go through the RMA and get it replaced under warranty. If warranty long expired, just buy a new drive ( i don't recommend 2nd hand drives).

but what you most definitely should not use

1. desktop drives (most aren't designed for raid, or 24/7 continous usage)
2. SMR drives (wd reds are smr so AVOID. the wd red plus should be NON SMR if you still insist on buying from that brand. Seagate ironwolf series no issues there on this front)

[a13antichrist]

for home user, just the ironwolf non pro, or wd red plus should be more than sufficient. than just maintain a backup. if the drive fails under warranty, just go through the RMA and get it replaced under warranty. If warranty long expired, just buy a new drive ( i don't recommend 2nd hand drives).

No.

Cos, EXOS is cheaper.
So why would a home user use a more expensive drive if the cheaper ones are actually better?

[a13antichrist]

you never heard my story ? (I have lots of stories) -

I went to the QNAP Tech Conference in San Jose California in October 2019 - this is just before QuTS was released.
And QNAP had different guest speakers get up. And one of them was the Seagate Rep, talking about how great Seagate drives were
for QNAP NAS systems.

So at the break, I went up to him and asked "how come the Seagate Ironwolf Pro drives are so much more expensive than the Seagate EXOS drives ?" -
and he replied to me
"gee - I don't know" -

and that sir - is the day I switched to Seagate EXOS drives, and have never looked back !
Bob Zelin

Hahah.. that is magic. Is exactly my position since I bought my first EXOSs, must be two years ago. Just now occurred to me to wonder why the Wolves are more expensive. Good to know I'm not alone haha ::))

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

No.

Cos, EXOS is cheaper.

to which drive are you comparing to?

because i was comparing between exo and say a seagate ironwolf non pro. and i checked the price (on the local online shop platform) for this Seagate Exos ST4000NM0035 7E8 4TB 512n SATA 128MB Cache 3.5-Inch Enterprise Hard Drive, and it was not cheaper than the one i mentioned at the same capacity size.

So why would a home user use a more expensive drive if the cheaper ones are actually better?

do you now mean, "why not pay for desktop drive over a nas raid drive like a seagate ironwolf"?

because the desktop drives although cheaper are not designed for nas raid purpose. wouldn't recommend for nas even if that were cheaper.

so nas raid drives like seagate ironwolf non pro, there is still good reason to be using these for a nas. but whether paying extra for more pricier premium especially at same capacity sizes, it's doubtful whether you can better reliability for the price premium. the data and other sources say it doesn't.

Hahah.. that is magic. Is exactly my position since I bought my first EXOSs, must be two years ago. Just now occurred to me to wonder why the Wolves are more expensive. Good to know I'm not alone haha ::))

would u plz specify which drive you say is cheaper (the exact model number e.g. ST4000VN008) and bought from where exactly? then i can go check myself



*update

it does say this exos the 4tb i checked was cheaper than ironwolf non pro on pcpartpicker (. Before i was checking at local seller, which it was at a higher price than the ironwolf.

here is a comparison between some drives so you can see the specs

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compa ... xr,6FQcCJ/



prices i found on amazon currently show



Seagate IronWolf 4TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD – CMR 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 5900 RPM 64MB Cache for RAID Network Attached Storage, Rescue Services – (ST4000VNZ06)

$73.99
No Import Fees Deposit & $10.40 Shipping to Singapore

Seagate Exos 4TB Internal Hard Drive Enterprise HDD – 3.5 Inch 6Gb/s 7200 RPM 128MB Cache for Enterprise, Data Center (ST4000NM0035)

$93.00
No Import Fees Deposit & $11.30 Shipping to Singapore

so in this example, the exos 4tb (ST4000NM0035) is more expensive than the seagate ironwolf at same capacity.

i don't know why pcpartpicker said it was cheaper, maybe cause the price fluctuates?

but anyway my local online IT it costs more than the seagate ironwolf non pro. but it does have a higher cache (and comes with 5 year warranty) compared to the ironwolf. i just went with the ironwolf because it cost less for same capacity size at least in our local distribution anyway

[a13antichrist]

*update

it does say this exos the 4tb i checked was cheaper than ironwolf non pro on pcpartpicker (. Before i was checking at local seller, which it was at a higher price than the ironwolf.

Yeah maybe your local place has some funny stock deals, but everywhere else, the Exos X16, X20 drives are cheaper per GB than the IronWolf and IronWolf Pro. Hence my question. They (the EXOS drives) were cheaper two years ago when I bought my Exos drives and they are cheaper today. Note in my case I'm looking at 12-16-20Gb drives, I don't even see any EXOS at less than 14Tb.
But I appreciate the extensive effort you put in to answer, and the self-correction, that shows integrity

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Yeah maybe your local place has some funny stock deals, but everywhere else, the Exos X16, X20 drives are cheaper per GB than the IronWolf and IronWolf Pro. Hence my question. They (the EXOS drives) were cheaper two years ago when I bought my Exos drives and they are cheaper today.
But I appreciate the extensive effort you put in to answer, and the self-correction, that shows integrity

if i could get those exos at the cheaper prices you mentioned i definitely would. but no luck

[a13antichrist]

if i could get those exos at the cheaper prices you mentioned i definitely would. but no luck

For me I see EXOS roughly at .018c/Gb, or $18/Tb, whereas the cheapest Ironwolf (not even Pro) is at 0.023/Gb, and 0.027 for the 4Tb which is fully 50% more expensive. For the 16tb/20tb I'm looking at, it's 0.0.18 for both EXOS and 0.025 and 0.028 for the IronWolf - though that 20Tb is for the Pro version, as the regulars don't seem to have a 20tb version yet.

I'm travelling through Asia shortly, but not stopping in SG, only BKK and JKT otherwise I'd have offered to bring you a few at (apparently) Europe's bargain prices hahah.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

...

i saw this youtuber mention the exos you were talking about in regards to why their price was cheaper. thought you would be interested
https://youtu.be/BhJRZH5R_tE?t=211

he says the reason they are usually listed so cheap is becaused they were used or refurbished. hm...

all drives i buy is factory sealed and brand new, usually from a reputable seller (preferably official or on promo at the time usually year end).

and he says exos are louder than the ironwolves. i never used an exos before, so i don't personally, but this is what he said.

[a13antichrist]

...

i saw this youtuber mention the exos you were talking about in regards to why their price was cheaper. thought you would be interested
https://youtu.be/BhJRZH5R_tE?t=211

he says the reason they are usually listed so cheap is becaused they were used or refurbished. hm...

He says specifically 'sometimes you find them really cheaply', he's not talking about the base price of the drives as standard.

Noise-wise I haven't heard a thing from the 4 I already have in my 871, am about to add 2 more but they still definitely won't make more noise than my desktop that sits next to it hahaah.