TS-459 PRO II

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cridemichel
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TS-459 PRO II

Post by cridemichel »

Hi all,
do you know whether the new Seagate irownwolf NAS HDDs (e.g. ST6000NE0021 or ST8000NE0021)
are compatible with my 4-bay qnap TS 459 pro II? I am asking because they are not in the compatibility list which I can find on qnap website,

thank in advance for your help,
best Cristiano
cridemichel
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by cridemichel »

up
P3R
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by P3R »

Please don't double-post or bump.

It seems that nobody knows the answer to your questions. Probably because it's not that common buying new and very large disks to an outdated model not receiving any new frimware updates and naturally no compatibility testing will be done by Qnap.

That said I would be very surprised if the disks you ask about didn't work.

I'm using 3 TB WD Red in my TS-459 Pro II and they work perfectly.

Please remember that even if larger volumes will work if set up that way from scratch RAID expansion/migration doesn't work beyond 16 TB volumes.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
cridemichel
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by cridemichel »

Dear P3R,
I apologize for double-post my initally I posted to wrong thread I guess.
About my TS-459 Pro II it is still receiving firmware updates hence it is not time
to get rid of it yet ;-).
In any case thank you for your (quasi) positive answer to my question,

kind regards
P3R wrote:Please don't double-post or bump.

It seems that nobody knows the answer to your questions. Probably because it's not that common buying new and very large disks to an outdated model not receiving any new frimware updates and naturally no compatibility testing will be done by Qnap.

That said I would be very surprised if the disks you ask about didn't work.

I'm using 3 TB WD Red in my TS-459 Pro II and they work perfectly.

Please remember that even if larger volumes will work if set up that way from scratch RAID expansion/migration doesn't work beyond 16 TB volumes.
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by P3R »

cridemichel wrote:About my TS-459 Pro II it is still receiving firmware updates hence it is not time
to get rid of it yet ;-).
Well the last QTS firmware version it will ever receive is version 4.2 so it didn't get QTS 4.3 when that was released.

As for firmware updates you and I have unfortunately only exactly 4 weeks left of that as October 31, 2017 is the final cutoff date for any updates at all according to the latest firmware release notes:
"QNAP will no longer release firmware updates for the following models after October 31, 2017.
SS-439 Pro, SS-839 Pro, TS-110, TS-210, TS-239 Pro, TS-239 Pro II, TS-239 Pro II+, TS-259 Pro, TS-259 Pro+, TS-410, TS-410U, TS-439 Pro, TS-439 Pro II, TS-439 Pro II+, TS-439U-RP/ SP, TS-459 Pro, TS-459 Pro II, TS-459 Pro+, TS-459U-RP/SP, TS-459U-RP+/SP+, TS-509 Pro, TS-559 Pro, TS-559 Pro II, TS-559 Pro+, TS-639 Pro, TS-659 Pro, TS-659 Pro II, TS-659 Pro+, TS-809 Pro, TS-809U-RP, TS-859 Pro, TS-859 Pro+, TS-859U-RP, TS-859U-RP+.
"
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
michaelxy
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by michaelxy »

Does "QNAP will no longer release firmware updates for the following models after October 31, 2017." mean, no Upgrade zu 4.3 or no Update from 4.2.x to 4.2.y ?

And if yes - what is that:

https://www.qnap.com/en/product/eol.php

TS-210 for example "Technical Support" : "OnGoing" ?

And if yes or no: What typical lifetime (EOL) will a QNAP Product have?
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by P3R »

michaelxy wrote:Does "QNAP will no longer release firmware updates for the following models after October 31, 2017." mean, no Upgrade zu 4.3 or no Update from 4.2.x to 4.2.y ?
I interpret it as no more updates after 4.2.6 build 20171018 (if that is still the latest on tuesday).
And if yes - what is that:...//...TS-210 for example "Technical Support" : "OnGoing" ?
Support will still assist you if need it but you won't receive any new firmware updates or fixes.
And if yes or no: What typical lifetime (EOL) will a QNAP Product have?
If there is one I haven't been able to figure it out. It varies.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
michaelxy
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by michaelxy »

I will then buy a TS-251 (because of snapshots and other games) - but maybe in 3 years I have an other box without support... (at least its x86 Hardware and usable as PC/Server)

Does synology (or other home-nas manufactors) have there an List how long they guarantee Software-Updates?
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by P3R »

michaelxy wrote:I will then buy a TS-251 (because of snapshots and other games)...
Games?
...but maybe in 3 years I have an other box without support...
Normally I would say that's very pessimistic but given that the TS-251 is already now more than 3 years old, it's actually quite possible with only 3 more years for that specific model.

TS-210 (that you used as an example) was end-of-sale 5 years ago and at that time it had since long already been replaced by other models so in reality we're probably talking about an at least 6 year old model with very low-end hardware specifications.
Does synology (or other home-nas manufactors) have there an List how long they guarantee Software-Updates?
Ask in a Synology forum.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
michaelxy
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by michaelxy »

Games?
Or nice features :-)

200€ for 6 years+- is good money burning invest.

Or 310€ for the TS-251+ with 5 years lifetime.

In office we have now to burn the TS-459U+. Its only 7 years old - working well.

If I install debian with smb etc. its much cheaper as to burn every 5 years a QNAP NAS. To burn money its good in the business - but as home-user I dont think to buy further nas from QNAP because of the short lifetime policy.
Ron1963
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by Ron1963 »

michaelxy wrote: Does synology (or other home-nas manufactors) have there an List how long they guarantee Software-Updates?
For what I know Synology support is in general 3 years. Based on their model naming convention (DSx17 f.i.) which has the model year in it you can easily calculate until it's supported (2020 in this example).
1x TS251, 1x TS251D, 1x TS253
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Trexx
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by Trexx »

There are multiple things that can impact how long QNAP could potentially support something.

Here are just a few:
  • HW capabilities of the box (CPU/Memory)
  • QTS Kernel Compatibility
  • Vendor driver support (Intel GPU's, etc.)
  • How popular/unpopular a model was
Just like iPhones, where at a certain point the HW can't keep up with the SW and you either have to strip features or it is just too slow to be practical, the same is true for NAS. The old 32-bit processors with 512MB or 1GB of memory at a certain point won't cut it anymore.

The newer x64 processors that support expandable memory are in a better position to potentially have a longer life span, but again there are multiple factors that come into play to determine if it makes sense to spend the development and support resources there or someplace else.

All that being said, none of this will cause your your box to suddenly stop working the day that QNAP decides to no longer release QTS versions for your HW. It works just like it did the day before. I would be a lot more cautious though at that point about having it exposed externally on the internet due to potential security risks, etc.

But if you were using it as a File Server, it is still a good File Server.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.5.3.x
QTS (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
Data (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar
VMs (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x1TB SK Hynix Gold
Ext. (HDD): TR-004 [Raid-5] 4 x 4TB HGST Ultastor
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
UPS: CP AVR1350

Model:TVS-673 32GB & TS-228a Offline[/color]
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michaelxy
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by michaelxy »

its all relative - a netapp FAS - 7 years old - is now EOL. A new netapp box costs ~28.000€ ... I hope my car will not start up one day with an EOL LED-Alarm.
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin »

I also have a 659 Pro II series, and a 509 pro which is considered more or less EOL. i'm still using them as backup.

just disable all internet and remote stuff. I just use strictly for backup storage, and when not in use i just turn it off.

my main nas is usually the latest model i would upgrade to, so i can benefit from new hardware upgrades and other features. Like the time i upgraded from 659 pro II to a 653a i got to use the new storage manager.

anyway like trex said still can use it, just be sure you secure it properly though cause eventually there will be vulnerabilities and there is no patch due to no longer supported.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100mbps FTTH | Win11, Ryzen 5600X Desktop (1x2tb Crucial P50 Plus M.2 SSD, 1x 8tb seagate Ironwolf,1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Resources
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin
michaelxy
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Re: TS-459 PRO II

Post by michaelxy »

I think the main unsecurity vector is the SMB Service. But web-management was in the the past the door in some devices (not QNAP) to get unauthorized access. Realy secure should only be the ssh service :-) To use an unsupported box in a business environment is very risky.

But I get before 1 weeks an update für my TS-210 and it seams, its not total EOL?...

But the new TS-251 was worth to buy. browser station ist not working with an other user than admin ... but now at last I have snapshots, qmailagent is nice und qsirch usefull and the box a bit faster than the old one.
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