WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

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dmierowsky
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dmierowsky »

P3R wrote:
dmierowsky wrote:I saw that limit - my understanding was that it was a volume limit - so each volume you create can't be more than 16TB.
True.
I'm running with RAID-5 so 3x6TB useable would be 18TB which I'd have to split into 2x9TB volumes (or some other split).
Here's the bad news: you can't split or create multiple volumes on a RAID in a cat1 model like the old TS-412. :cry:

4*6 TB RAID 5 will end up at about 16.2 TB uasble storage so just above the 16 TB limit

RAID 6 or RAID 10 works but will give you 50 % less storage capacity,
10.8 TB.

Actually 5 TB disks are a much better fit for RAID 5 in a 4-bay cat1 model as 4*5 TB RAID 5 will become a 13.5 TB volume.
Ah I wasn't quite sure about that thanks for clearing that up. I've had a look at going to 5TB drives but both 5TB drives on the TS412 compatibility list (Seagate ST5000NM0024 abd WDC50EFRX) seem to be hard to find - the one store that had the WDC 5TB had them more expensive than the 6TB at other places! Given that I currently have 4x2TB drives, the most cost effective solution at the moment is to purchase 4X4TB WDC drives which would double my capacity - enough for the next few years at least. Toying with the idea of upgrading to a TS451 with 6TB or 8TB drives but the cost is more than double.
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dolbyman
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dolbyman »

you can basically use any manufacturer nas drive .. they all should be compatible..only desktop drive are a bit more tricky


also make sure you have a backup strategy for that data..it will one day save your bacon (if the data is of any importance)
dmierowsky
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dmierowsky »

dolbyman wrote:you can basically use any manufacturer nas drive .. they all should be compatible..only desktop drive are a bit more tricky


also make sure you have a backup strategy for that data..it will one day save your bacon (if the data is of any importance)
All under control - it's my 10+ years of photography work! I back up regularly to a pair of external drives - one at the office and one at home. I usually have a copy of my best images on my laptop as well.
P3R
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by P3R »

dmierowsky wrote:I've had a look at going to 5TB drives but both 5TB drives on the TS412 compatibility list (Seagate ST5000NM0024 abd WDC50EFRX) seem to be hard to find - the one store that had the WDC 5TB had them more expensive than the 6TB at other places!
Yes I've also noticed that 5 TB disks are being phased out. The last time I was shopping I bought a 6 TB instead at the same price.
Given that I currently have 4x2TB drives, the most cost effective solution at the moment is to purchase 4X4TB WDC drives which would double my capacity - enough for the next few years at least.
Please note that the TS-412 is being phased out and that QTS 4.3.3 is the last software release for it ever.

As long as the TS-412 hardware don't fail it will of course continue to work on that last firmware but in a couple of months it may be outdated. When it is, it's strongly recommended to keep the NAS completely isolated within your local network and don't use it for any internet services.
Toying with the idea of upgrading to a TS451 with 6TB or 8TB drives but the cost is more than double.
If you use the NAS to serve anything to the public internet, you probably shouldn't invest anything in the TS-412 and start planning for this major upgrade instead. If the NAS is only used within your local network, you could go on with the TS-412 until it breaks.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
dmierowsky
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dmierowsky »

P3R wrote:
dmierowsky wrote:I've had a look at going to 5TB drives but both 5TB drives on the TS412 compatibility list (Seagate ST5000NM0024 abd WDC50EFRX) seem to be hard to find - the one store that had the WDC 5TB had them more expensive than the 6TB at other places!
Yes I've also noticed that 5 TB disks are being phased out. The last time I was shopping I bought a 6 TB instead at the same price.
Given that I currently have 4x2TB drives, the most cost effective solution at the moment is to purchase 4X4TB WDC drives which would double my capacity - enough for the next few years at least.
Please note that the TS-412 is being phased out and that QTS 4.3.3 is the last software release for it ever.

As long as the TS-412 hardware don't fail it will of course continue to work on that last firmware but in a couple of months it may be outdated. When it is, it's strongly recommended to keep the NAS completely isolated within your local network and don't use it for any internet services.
Toying with the idea of upgrading to a TS451 with 6TB or 8TB drives but the cost is more than double.
If you use the NAS to serve anything to the public internet, you probably shouldn't invest anything in the TS-412 and start planning for this major upgrade instead. If the NAS is only used within your local network, you could go on with the TS-412 until it breaks.
I doubt I'll ever use it for the public internet. It's use is primarily to hold all my (growing) photographic work. Still, I'll think more seriously about upgrading given the age and (non) future of the TS-412. Plus the migration will be easier - simple copy from one to the other and I can always keep the TS412 as an extra backup - lol you can never have enough backups IMHO!
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storageman
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by storageman »

kherr4377 wrote:i was just on Amazon, and for SnG i looked up WD GOLD ..... they're cheaper than PROs and better specs ...... :-0 :-0 <1 in 10^15 ....
Recommended if the price is right, 2.5 MTBF, twice that of Red Pro/IronWolf Pro.
Even P3R must like that!
P3R
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by P3R »

storageman wrote:Even P3R must like that!
Absolutely, I especially like that on WD Gold they don't need to use any trick numbers to make the specifications look competitive.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
dmierowsky
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dmierowsky »

storageman wrote:
kherr4377 wrote:i was just on Amazon, and for SnG i looked up WD GOLD ..... they're cheaper than PROs and better specs ...... :-0 :-0 <1 in 10^15 ....
Recommended if the price is right, 2.5 MTBF, twice that of Red Pro/IronWolf Pro.
Even P3R must like that!
Go figure - in Australia the WD Gold drives are more expensive than Red Pro!
kherr4377
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by kherr4377 »

Thew price (anyway on Amazon) must have come down. they used to be probably 10% (or more) than Pro's. the only real problem with them, it looks like they are power hogs.
Production :
TVS-673 4.3.4 0387
4 X 3TB WD RED : 1 X 4TB HGST DESKSTAR R5
32GB
LAN-10G1SR-D, FiberHal for Cisco SFP-10G-SR
NETGEAR ProSAFE SS3300-28X

Backup :
TS-469L 4.3.4 0387
4 X 3TB WD RED R5
3GB
Located detached garage .. cheap offsite solution ...

2nd TS-469L awaiting drives and reassignment for front-line duty .......
P3R
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by P3R »

dmierowsky wrote:Go figure - in Australia the WD Gold drives are more expensive than Red Pro!
Normally they should be. But as pricing depends on a lot of different factors and varies sometimes you strike gold(!) if monitoring reseller pricing. Six years ago I was lucky enough to buy a bunch of 3 TB Hitachi Ultrastar enterprise disks at the same price as Deskstar desktop disks.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
windbag
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by windbag »

Joining in, as upscaling my TS-412 is exactly my situation as well.
Currently have only 2x2TB drives, now looking to massively expand to accommodate music from very large (10,000+) CD collection, so going for biggest usable total capacity over 4 drive bays.
This has been a very helpful thread about the maximum capacity (single 16TB) volume size and advice that updates now at end of support life.
(Thanks, dolbyman)

Not looking to use NAS as anything but internal data & media storage, so lack of future update support not a big issue as will not expose it to internet.
Plan A is to go to RAID5 & buy 5 HDdrives (4bays+1 to swap out in emergency).
As noted, 5TB drives now way expensive for their capacity (can only find WD Reds at over £300 each).

If I put in 4x6TB drives, will the system just give the max it can (ie slight waste of HD capacity) ?
Also, the recommended drive list is a bit lean, but is that just because it is near end of QNAP support?
I saw the advice that “you can basically use any manufacturer nas drive .. they all should be compatible..only desktop drive are a bit more tricky”
(Thanks again, dolbyman)

Looking at current 6TB for-NAS drive prices, I could go for:
Seagate Iron Wolf (£183ea), Toshiba N300 (£196) or Western Digital Red (£205), so a total extra upgrade cost of £0, £65 or £112 respectively.
Apart from personal manufacturer dislikes, does one of these shout “best” more than the others because of speed, reliability, energy consumption,warranty?

Finally, is there a good “step by step guide” you can point me at to migrate from 2x2TB to 4x(6?)TB drives?

PS for info, I do have a regular off-board backup system, both via overnight backup (rotated periodically offsite) and via other external drives in rotation.
I will need to upgrade to backup capacities and probably split them up, though ;-)
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dolbyman
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dolbyman »

with cat1 devices it will just not work.it throws an error

to expand to or beyond 16TB you need a cat2 device and start from scratch (no legacy migration of the old disks)
windbag
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by windbag »

dolbyman wrote:with cat1 devices it will just not work.it throws an error

to expand to or beyond 16TB you need a cat2 device and start from scratch (no legacy migration of the old disks)
Thanks for the quick response; Rats!
Move to PlanB. Would RAID1 & 4x8TB disks be allowable?
Or Plan C; would 2x8TB + 2x6TB RAID1 give a workable 14TB volume?
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dolbyman
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by dolbyman »

PlanB: Does not work on QNAP
PlanC: Due to the lack of storage pools, you cannot combine RAID Volumes on CAT1 devices , you make two separate volumes
PlanD: RAID6 with 4x6TB drives
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Re: WD 6TB Prod WD6002FFWX in TS-412

Post by P3R »

PlanE: Migrate/expand to 3*8 TB RAID 5 (or 4*8 TB RAID 6) = 14.4 TB usable storage.
PlanF: Find someone with 4 relatively new 5 TB disks that want to upgrade them to 6 TB.
PlanG: Buy a new low cost NAS, like a TS-431P.
RAID have never ever been a replacement for backups. Without backups on a different system (preferably placed at another site), you will eventually lose data!

A non-RAID configuration (including RAID 0, which isn't really RAID) with a backup on a separate media protects your data far better than any RAID-volume without backup.

All data storage consists of both the primary storage and the backups. It's your money and your data, spend the storage budget wisely or pay with your data!
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