QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

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dawsonkm
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by dawsonkm » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:09 am

Yippym wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:14 pm
This topic is starting to sound like an Intel Atom C2000 bug, the CPU in the TS-453 Pro is the J1900 that is based on the Silvermont Architecture.

The Intel Atom E3800 series started to have issue of boot after long usage https://www.servethehome.com/another-at ... vli89-bug/
This is exactly what it sounds like. I have a NAS made by another vendor that has a C2000 CPU.
Last week it wouldn't start up and has nice flashy lights indicative of the known problem. It's well out of warranty. I knew it would happen eventually so there was nothing critical on it.
TS-431X2 QTS 4.4.1.1216 - Static Vol 4 x 8TB Hdd Raid 5 Using 10GBE
TS-431X2 QTS 4.4.1.1216 - Static Vol 4 x 8TB Hdd Raid 5 Using 10GBE
TS-431P2 QTS 4.4.1.1216 - Static Vol 4 x 8TB Hdd Raid 5
TS-431P2 QTS 4.4.1.1216 - Static Vol 4 x 8TB Hdd Raid 5
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HelioJr
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by HelioJr » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:09 pm

Hi people. Here is the same: my TS-453-PRO ordered in 2015 works fine until yesterday (Sep 5, 2020). When I got home the system was halted and the four HDD led was blinking red with "System Booting....>>>>" message. No HDMI output signal. I have one raid5 (3 hdds) volume plus another stand alone hdd volume that backups the most important content from the first raid5 volume. So, I plug the standalone hdd in a PC and retrieved the data. Nothing worked for me: the steps of shutting down and power on with no hdds and also let it power off (cable removed) for 8 hours. What do you suggest for me? Will QNAP have an official solutions for this inssue thar really seens to be strinking so many people in the same time?

NAS_Q_User
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by NAS_Q_User » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:44 am

scar0x wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:32 am
Another one here. TS-453 ... SYSTEM BOOTING >>>>>,,,,

Turned off NAS, Removed drives, Turned it back on without drives.. NO luck.

Now I have all our data sitting here on raid 5 drives.. not sure what to do.
Looking to take the drives out and insert them into a SYNOLOGY, after purchasing it... Can any one forsee any issues with that... ?

I really do not want QNAP after reading this thread any longer.
Considering that NAS Data is encrypted and every manufacturer uses their own proprietary way of storing data, I will venture the bet that inserting the drives into a Synology will wipe the Data at worse or leave the data unreadable at best.

I would suggest either getting hold of another QNAP to retrieve and copy the data on another NAS or, ordering a QNAP again.

N.B. if you decide to transfer the data to another NAS, you will need at least one huge Harddisk to store the Data before reusing your old ones. Or order new Drives with the new NAS.

I bit the bullet and got the TS-453D, just inserted the old drives and was ready to go.

carmic
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by carmic » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:16 pm

alias71 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:48 pm
I got courage, I backed up everything on an USB hard disk, performed a factory reset, did not install any app (I just need the basic NAS functionality), and finally copied the data back to the NAS.
Everything looking good for now. I shutdown and powered on the NAS three times without issues. If it happens again I will open a ticket.
Thanks for all the help!!!
Hello,
I know that this topic is very old but I have the same problem now and I would like to know how you succeed to back up data because the NAS doesn't start.
Thanks for your answers because I don't really want to loose all my data

HelioJr
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by HelioJr » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:56 pm

I have an 3 HDD raid5 volume in my offline QNAP. I connect the HDDs to my PC and start it up with and pendrive with Unbuntu´s OS. Then i run this comand in the terminal and finished mount the volume with partition and volume graphical aplication. So, when the volumes got up I transfer the data to a NTFS HDD.

This is the comand to recognize your raid:

sudo apt-get install mdadm
sudo mdadm --assemble --scan

Then you should activate the volume with an partion commando or graphical app to become avaiable in Nautilus app.

darienmt
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by darienmt » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:14 am

Yes another TS-453-Pro-8G stuck in System Booting.
It beep-ed a week or so ago and restarted. After that, it got stuck in System booting. Today, I opened and pulled the drives out. Read all this thread and attached USB keyboard and hdmi with no response and the 4 bay's less in red.

I will try to take the info out of the hard drives, but I am a bit reductant of buying another one. Only if I cannot get the info out I will do it.

Thank you @NAS_Q_User for the experience with TS-453D. Just inserted the drives and ready to go is good.

Anyother person have this experience with other model(insert drives and go)?

NAS_Q_User
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by NAS_Q_User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:56 am

darienmt wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:14 am
Yes another TS-453-Pro-8G stuck in System Booting.
It beep-ed a week or so ago and restarted. After that, it got stuck in System booting. Today, I opened and pulled the drives out. Read all this thread and attached USB keyboard and hdmi with no response and the 4 bay's less in red.

I will try to take the info out of the hard drives, but I am a bit reductant of buying another one. Only if I cannot get the info out I will do it.

Thank you @NAS_Q_User for the experience with TS-453D. Just inserted the drives and ready to go is good.

Anyother person have this experience with other model(insert drives and go)?
I can report that a friend of mine also had the problem and migrated to a TS-451+ 8GB also without problems.

He's not on the Forum.

nopzolder
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by nopzolder » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:46 pm

Severity: Error
Date/Time: 2020/09/22 20:05:08

App Name: Hardware Status
Category: Fans
Message: [Hardware Status] System fan 1 failed.

System Rebooting >>>>>>>> never ending loop.

TS-453 Pro 8GB bought on 19-09-2014

mars109
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by mars109 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:20 pm

Same issue here. Did anyone ever get this sorted. Seems very suspicious that so many could go wrong all very close in time frame

mars109
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by mars109 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:22 pm

Also has anyone else invested in a Dom to try to get it up and running as I just purchased one and now thinking it might be worth cancelling the purchase as I’m not sure if it will even sort the issue for me.

System booting all red lights when drive are in or out and no need so can’t get into the bios

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deerhound
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by deerhound » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:33 am

I noticed that FW 4.5.1.1456 isn't available for TS-453 Pro. May QNAP got worried about breaking more with FW updates. :DD :DD :DD :DD
TS-453Be 4X WD40EFRX & TS-453 Pro 4X WD2002FFSX

yujungchang
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by yujungchang » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:00 am

Bought a TS-453 Pro recently from a Ebay seller, however it has the same problem(no beep, no HDMI output and nothing) as everyone here. Since the seller provides a full refund without having to send it back(Canada), I decided to take it apart and see if a simple SPI reflash will fix the issue, as few successful stories. Unfortunately as I suspected, it does not do anything for majority of the people. After reflashing the BIOS and powering it up couple times, the image read back is exactly the same. That means either the CPU failed to fetch/execute any code or the BIOS does not run long enough to write back some data to the flash. By the way, the pin header for the SPI is exactly the same as the Dediprog header, which is commonly used in the PC development.
x20201017_143204.jpg

I also captured the pin 1 CLK on the LPC header(LPC_CN1) to see if it's the same as C2000 Atom LPC defect. Although the clock capture looks different than this capture, https://youtu.be/Y8_emfoR_MI?t=788, I felt it is probably the same issue and just shows up as a different failure pattern. I also noticed the low of the LPC clock is quite high, probably not normal. Voltage measured with a multimeter will show ~2.4V if you don't have a scope. I also probed the Fintek F71869AD pin 38(PCICLK) and it seems that's the same clk as LPC header, 25 MHz. The pin39(CLKIN) is clocked at the 24 MHz(but looks clean/good), so some clocks are still good. Plus there's no clock(low) to the SPI (actually the clk is only transmitted when there're transactions), pin 1(Vcc), 3(CS), 5(SO) are high. That explains why the system failed to boot and unchanged SPI image after power up.
LPC_Clock.jpg

After doing some Google search, I saw this issue discussed below matches exactly the same as my system, but the workaround doesn't work well for me [Updated status below]. Tried lower the resistor to 100 ohm and the low is still around 1V(with High reduced to ~2V), but this might be the solution for some lucky ones.
https://community.intel.com/t5/Processo ... rue#M46864
we have measured that the LPC CLK signal is clearly degraded, and most often that the negative cycle transistor is broken, meaning that the clock signal is swinging between 1.6 and 3.3V, not 0V and 3.3V. We have tried to put a 120 ohm resistor between the degraded clock signal and 0V, and that seems to solve the problem, the computer boots again.

Continuously trying in the evening, I actually got it to boot with the resistor back to 120 Ohm (fine tune might be needed for a specific system). It seems it has a higher chance to boot if the processor is heated up hours before it is ready to boot (without fan and leave it on even if it hung). Most the time it hung at various places on the 1st boot(post code B2 or during decompress/booting to kernel). After power cycle and if it booted successfully, it seems running fine afterward, until next cold boot.


Still trying to boot after an hour wait the next day, looks like I might have to warm it up a lot longer before it was able to boot last night. After waiting over 2.5 hours, it is finally showing signs of booting again (hung randomly) and it seems 100 Ohm works better on my system.
This was captured when it was repeatable booting last night (with 120 Ohm). That big dip and more stable in the clock might be what's making it boot.
booting.jpg
This is when it was cold (not booting) this morning with nothing changed in the setup
No_boot_cold.jpg
When more than 5 hours of warm up still failed to boot (with 120 Ohm), it boots immediately after I reduced the resistor to 100 Ohm.
Boot with 100 Ohm.jpg

Final thought, it seems the 100 Ohm might be the solution for my system. When it failed in the earlier test, it's probably because I forgot to put back the memory after testing various conditions. It boots right away consistently(except couple times) with that 100 Ohm in place between pin 1 (LPC CLK) and ground (pin 8 or 10). I think the EC was in a messed up state and when it failed to boot (after power down), power button override, yank the power cord, wait few seconds, plug it back in and it boots up the next time. From chatting with my friend, the rework might cause clock buffer degradation even faster with this strong pull down to the clock. Even though it works now and the boot is repeatable, not sure how long can it last?

Also this LPC clk is fed into the Fintek F71869AD, which acts as the EC for the onboard power management, as well as the FSC (fan speed controller). Once the clock went wild, the CPU/EC lost the communication, the system will either hang, reboot or log fan errors(if lucky) as some have seen. When that happened, power cycle the system without G3 (mechanical off) does not fix the problem for me and the system continue to fail to boot until removing the power cord. It's very easy to reproduce this problem. Once the system boots up to QTS, those bad things happened immediately as soon as I disconnect the resistor.

Besides replacing the CPU (which is a riskier/costly option), an alternative clock from LPCCLK1 or other clock source might be a solution as well. The problem for that is it will be a challenge to find/cut the trace from the LPCCLK0 and hook it up to an alternative clk source without a board file.
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Last edited by yujungchang on Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:02 am, edited 32 times in total.

Ron1963
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by Ron1963 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:40 pm

deerhound wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:33 am
I noticed that FW 4.5.1.1456 isn't available for TS-453 Pro. May QNAP got worried about breaking more with FW updates. :DD :DD :DD :DD
It has status EOL for more than a year already and according to that list it should not have gotten 4.4 at all https://www.qnap.com/en/product/eol.php .
1x TS431, 1x TS251, 1x TS253

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deerhound
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by deerhound » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:22 am

Ron1963 wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:40 pm
deerhound wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:33 am
I noticed that FW 4.5.1.1456 isn't available for TS-453 Pro. May QNAP got worried about breaking more with FW updates. :DD :DD :DD :DD
It has status EOL for more than a year already and according to that list it should not have gotten 4.4 at all https://www.qnap.com/en/product/eol.php .
As an owner of as TS453 Pro, who is waiting for it to bite the dust, I felt a little humor in order, due too so many of the reported deaths being after a FW update. Of course it is EOL.
TS-453Be 4X WD40EFRX & TS-453 Pro 4X WD2002FFSX

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EldigoR
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Re: QNAP TS-453 Pro stuck on "SYSTEM BOOTING"

Post by EldigoR » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:58 pm

Another TS-453 Pro user with a LCD thats stuck on "booting system", system temp 0 degrees, fan rpm in the 4 million, and 3 out of 4 HDD led red (bay 2,3 and 4)
The nas does startup however, is reachable and applications seem to working fine.
After reading all posts, I'll try this tonight
1 - Force power off the NAS pressing the power button for 10 secs
2 - Remove the hard drives (remembering the order)
3 - Power on the NAS
4 - Without the hard drives being reinstalled, Force power off
5 - Unplugg the power cord and leave it for 8 hours.
6 - Reinsert the hard drive preserving the order
7 - Power on the NAS
8 - The NAS starts and all the data is accessible.
:arrow: TS-453 PRO 8GB

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