NAS newbie here

Introduce yourself to us and other members here, or share your own product reviews, suggestions, and tips and tricks of using QNAP products.
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RMikeS
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NAS newbie here

Post by RMikeS » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:48 am

I've been a computer geek since before PCs were affordable for a home user. I have quite a variety of experience, from learning to program BASIC on a TI 99/4a in 1981, to building my own PCs in '83, because, as I said, they were not affordable for the home market. My home market for sure. Programming was always an huge interest for me. Over the next few years I learned to program Pascal. After I was proficient in it, I took on C versions up to C++, as well as Assembly. I found them to be easy, after learning REAL programming syntax with Pascal. The '90s found me interested in networking. I earned a Novell CNE in Netware track 3.1x '95 and and updated to Netware 4.0 in 1997. As a matter of course, I needed a network to practice on. No way my job was about to let me practice on the company network, so I built a Netware server in my basement computer lab and fitted my PCs with NICs. After the turn of the century, I had a job change forced upon me (as well as the 43 people that worked under me). As a result of that change, I ended up as a CNC machine programmer. I no longer had time to program for fun, so my computer fun mostly became surfing the Internet.

As a single father with a mortgage to pay, I decided not to get cable TV, we watched transmitted television and I purchased TV shows and movies on DVD at eBay and Amazon. When TV went all digital, I happened to find network websites. These were great. they were free and on demand, at least until the cable companies found out about this and put an end to it. By this time my collection of videos had grown. The easiest solution was to buy USB hard drives to store these on when got to the point where I bought an 8TB to store my videos (leaving a lot of space for future growth). I had just about 3.5TB in video files. I decided to get a 2nd 8TB USB drive and make it a copy of the first. Keeping this backup current was a Windows batch file that used robocopy to backup changed files. While this was pretty easy, I still neglected running the batch file. This became more and more of a risk of losing updated data from the work drive. Of course, as would you know, I did have a disk failure on the work drive and the backup drive hadn't been updated in 3 months. Fortunately, the really important stuff was backed up (also batch file) to a folder on each of my PCs, so it wasn't the disaster It could have been. I decided it was time for a drive system that created a mirror backup automatically in real time. After a lot of research, I decided on a QNAP as being the best choice for features and apps available, at a price I could justify.

Today, April 14 marks the fifth day since I began using it.

My NAS is a QNAP TS-431KX with the original 2GB memory. The system is on the work drive, a 4TB RAID 1, my collection of TV shows is located on an 8TB RAID 1. My QTS is upgraded to 4.5.2 1630. It is connected to my router through both 1GBe ports using Cat7 twisted pair flat cables. Port 3 is the priority 1 gateway with port 2 as the priority 2 gateway.

I found the setup to be difficult. The manual (User Guide) technically has all the info needed to setup a NAS from scratch, but it needs more words in explanations. The descriptive images used, don't convey enough information. In the end, I closed the manual and just pushed through the setup. I'd like to say I found the manual to be of value after the setup, but I can't say that without laughing.

Nevertheless, once I got into QTS, things got easier. Let's just say the QTS interface is intuitive enough to make up for the shortfall of the manual. Each of the last 5 days has taught me more as I get QTS configured closer to my ideal.

The very first thing I noticed was how fast it is open a file in the NAS. I had the 8TB (WD Easy Store) drives plugged into my fastest build thru its USB 3.1 ports. I used the work drive all the time. It was slooooowwwww. Even after I opened a database it was slow inside Microsoft Access. The NAS opens files as fast as the 256GB ssd C drive, my database files now have no visible lag.

Difficult learning curve or not, I'm completely sold on this awesome system.

I hope this wasn't too lengthy of an introduction, I did leave a bunch out. :wink:

Mike
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by OneCD » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:54 am

Hi Mike and welcome to the forum. :)

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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 pm

well it use to be people had hdds on pcs (they still do). Or they had external usb hdds (still do too).

but now your got nas (network attached storage) devices. These boxes can fit your hdds. Something like 4 hdds can then combine into a single volume by making a raid5 for example

https://www.servethehome.com/raid-calculator/

And then the nas with your content can then be easily accessible to all client devices on the same lan network.

So maybe you want to stream from nas to plex on your HDTV, or use kodi. While your wife is on the laptop editing some excels or some other document on the qnap.

Everyone on the lan can have access to the QNAP NAS and the data stored on it, simultaneously.

Whereas something like an external usb storage, you need to plug it into 1 single client device at a time via usb. Because of this sort of implementation, that is why NAS has become more popular as a more easily accessible solution for your stored digital data on the network.

polaroid pictures, physical dvds, all of these have been replaced for digital data which you store on hard drives (ssds are costly to store. mostly used for active running apps, OS, games, or other crucial apps that require fast responsiveness of ssds. whereas for big storage, hdds win due to pricing over ssds in that area). So where better than to store on a NAS :)


And i suspect you already know but a standalone qnap nas even in raid is not a backup. You need to pair it off with some other device that keeps a copy of the data you want to backup. The simplest backup is just to plug in an external usb hdd storage into the QNAP, and set either a manual or automated scheduled backup to run using the native app hybridbackupsync from the qts appcenter.


i saw a review of your nas model
https://nascompares.com/2020/07/25/qnap ... re-review/


these arm nas models are only good for as a file server, but not much else. Because all that it can mostly handle with their weak but lower power cpus. That is not to say low power cpus are pointless, in fact if you are planning on keeping your nas up 24/7, and you don't expect to be maxing out your cpu, then this may just be fine.

Personally i think the intel celeron cpu nas models are more balanced in terms of low power and still have a decent enough performance.


do not expose your NAS online. In qts you'll notice things like myqnapcloud, cloudlink... these things can help you get your QNAP NAS accessible online. It's real easy, but you SHOULDN'T. If you do need remote access for your qnap nas, to access it remotely offsite from the internet, use a vpn to set that up on your router
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgielyUFGeQ


update your qts firmware regularly. but at the same time, check the qnap forum firmware threads that discuss the firmware version, BEFORE you update. Some firmware are bad. So it's best to check what others are saying about it, BEFORE updating. a common issue qnap users have, is that they didn't check before they update. And this led to bad experiences which could have been easily avoided.

firmware threads are located in this part of the forum
viewforum.php?f=73


i covered the basics of what you need to know. there is probly more to learn, so just browse qts and ask if you are not sure :}


oo and welcome :mrgreen:
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides/articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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RMikeS
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by RMikeS » Wed May 05, 2021 5:19 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 pm
i saw a review of your nas model
https://nascompares.com/2020/07/25/qnap ... re-review/
{/quote]
That is a really great review. QNAP should hire this guy to write their manuals!
Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 pm
these arm nas models are only good for as a file server, but not much else. Because all that it can mostly handle with their weak but lower power cpus. That is not to say low power cpus are pointless, in fact if you are planning on keeping your nas up 24/7, and you don't expect to be maxing out your cpu, then this may just be fine.
I wasn't expecting any more than that. I just wanted a way to get quick access to my files from any device on my router. The only thing I would have liked to see is 8GB RAM right out of the box. QBoost freaks out on me often, more RAM would have been nice. Speaking of more RAM, I purchased an 8GB SO-DIMM for my NAS, but find no mention in the manual or anywhere else about updating the memory after setup. In fairness, the Knowledge Base or this forum probably have the answer, but the sheer amount of articles I come up with when searching is intimidating. In searching, I get every single mention of "memory" and of "update" in the system, but no "memory update". If the latter does actually show up, I haven't found it. I'd have expected that search to have all the exact matches at the top of the results list.

I know it must be a very easy thing to do, and that may be WHY I find no mention. But the fact remains that I have 7.5TB of drive space in use between both RAID 1s, and I hate the notion of initializing my drives again, so it seems prudent to ask someone how to go about this and you appear to be willing to help.
Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 pm
do not expose your NAS online. In qts you'll notice things like myqnapcloud, cloudlink... these things can help you get your QNAP NAS accessible online. It's real easy, but you SHOULDN'T.
Wasn't planning on it. As a programmer, I am very aware how easily a system can get compromised. I am also quite concerned about the rapid disappearance of personal privacy to the point that participating in a few forums is as close as I get to social media.
Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 pm
firmware threads are located in this part of the forum
viewforum.php?f=73
Thank you for the link, I am sure it will be very helpful.

Have a good day,
Mike
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed May 05, 2021 5:29 am

RMikeS wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:19 am
That is a really great review. QNAP should hire this guy to write their manuals!
rob? is is a youtuber, probly a reseller as well? because he also sells nas prebuilt systems from multiple vendors on his site as well :'

I wasn't expecting any more than that. I just wanted a way to get quick access to my files from any device on my router. The only thing I would have liked to see is 8GB RAM right out of the box.
i haven't checked the spec pages for the arm models lately, but i highly doubt there is 8gb for arm model normally. at least the ts-128 and ts-228 i got didn't by default :'
*update

seems there are arm models with 8gb+ ram :shock:

QBoost freaks out on me often, more RAM would have been nice. Speaking of more RAM, I purchased an 8GB SO-DIMM for my NAS, but find no mention in the manual or anywhere else about updating the memory after setup.
qboost isn't a permanent solution for ram. if it keeps triggering asking to clear ram because you have insufficient ram, basically, you are using more ram than you actually have. so the solution is, run less things, or upgrade ram. if you don't, it will begin to swap memory which is dump the stuff onto hard drive which is slower than ram (you don't want it doing that).

But the fact remains that I have 7.5TB of drive space in use between both RAID 1s, and I hate the notion of initializing my drives again, so it seems prudent to ask someone how to go about this and you appear to be willing to help.
this is easy. first backup your data (just in case).

You can then reinitialize the nas.

OR you can go to storage manager & snapshots, and remove the raid there, and redo it again. but if you installed the qts on it, maybe you need to reintialize? not sure :' but it will definitely get the job done.

When creating the raid you can choose thick or thin (i recommend thick less issue)
https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/knowledg ... ick-volume
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Wed May 05, 2021 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides/articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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OneCD
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by OneCD » Wed May 05, 2021 6:47 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:29 am
i haven't checked the spec pages for the arm models lately, but i highly doubt there is 8gb for arm model normally. at least the ts-128 and ts-228 i got didn't by default :'
Yep, there are a few ARM units with 8GB RAM as-default: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1009177511

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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed May 05, 2021 9:07 am

Yep, there are a few ARM units with 8GB RAM as-default: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1009177511
oo those models. definitely not too familiar with them. duly noted thx

by the way that sheet is pretty useful. especially the column duration before eol. have this sheet for the x86 models :' ?
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 (QTS) w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 +16gb ddr4 Crucial+ QWA-AC2600 wireless+QXP PCIE
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A (Truenas Core) w. 4x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) RaidZ1 ZFS + 8gb ddr3 Crucial
[^] QNAP TL-D400S 2x 4TB WD Red Nas (WD40EFRX) 2x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf, Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-253D (Truenas Scale)
[Mobile NAS] TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Qotom Pfsense|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH | Win10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides/articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review
https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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OneCD
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by OneCD » Wed May 05, 2021 10:30 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:07 am
have this sheet for the x86 models :' ?
No. I thought about making one, but it was going to be too much work. There are probably 10 times as many x86 models as ARM. ;)

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RMikeS
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by RMikeS » Thu May 06, 2021 4:26 am

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:29 am
rob? is is a youtuber, probly a reseller as well? because he also sells nas prebuilt systems from multiple vendors on his site as well :'
That explains a lot. They should still hire him to write manuals The differences in networking solutions since the mid 90s and now are as great as the differences between Windows 3.1 and Windows 10. Lots to learn. :roll:
qboost isn't a permanent solution for ram.
I get that QBoost is a memory manager. As such, it can only juggle the memory installed. Hence, the purchase of the 8GB memory module.
When creating the raid you can choose thick or thin (i recommend thick less issue)
https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/knowledg ... ick-volume
I had to read up about that online. I had started with Thick volumes, but was receiving repeated warnings coming up about running low on storage space. Converting them to thin volumes totally eliminated this issue.
this is easy. first backup your data (just in case).
Ah well, here goes another 3 days making new backups to spread across 3 drives.
You can then reinitialize the nas.
See, this is exactly what I was hoping to avoid. According to the manual, initializing the NAS formats the drives.

I know the physical process to change the RAM, that doesn't worry me. What does worry me is that I am finding no info regarding removing the drives and re-inserting. The Manual states that inserting drives will format them, causing me enough concern to live with the small amount of RAM until I can get a positive answer.

Am I making too much of an issue of this? Is it actually as easy as swapping memory in a PC? It could be I overly cautious on this matter, do to an incomplete grasp of the system.

Is there anyone else that would like to weigh in? Or should I put in a help ticket on this? My system info is in my first post, although my firmware was updated to 4.5.3.1652.

Thank you all for you time,
Mike
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by dolbyman » Thu May 06, 2021 5:48 am

popping the disks out will not erase any data (inserting foreign disks will)

RAM swap is the same as in any computer

Shut the NAS down
Swap the RAM
Start the NAS UP

same as before (just more RAM)

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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by RMikeS » Thu May 06, 2021 10:11 am

dolbyman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:48 am
popping the disks out will not erase any data (inserting foreign disks will)

RAM swap is the same as in any computer

Shut the NAS down
Swap the RAM
Start the NAS UP

same as before (just more RAM)
Thank you very much Dolbyman. I realize now that I just should have been asking if I could just turn it off, perform my upgrade and turn it back on without risking data loss. But, I'm talking about TV, movie, cartoon, and educational videos that have taken 16 years so far to collect.

Peace to you brother,
Mike
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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by Cbrad01 » Fri May 07, 2021 2:48 am

You can memory upgrades without impacting the data at all. The only time you risk the data is when you change / replace or remove the hard drive(s).
I always label the drive to indicate what slot the drive goes in so if I need to take out drives I can return them the correct slot.


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Re: NAS newbie here

Post by RMikeS » Sat May 08, 2021 5:17 am

Cbrad01 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 2:48 am
You can memory upgrades without impacting the data at all. The only time you risk the data is when you change / replace or remove the hard drive(s).
I always label the drive to indicate what slot the drive goes in so if I need to take out drives I can return them the correct slot.
Thank you for your response. :D Had this been a PC, I wouldn't've thought twice.I have kept up with PCs much better than networking. I really feel that if QNAP had a better manual, I'd've been fine even with this task. As it is, the manual is what got me so nervous to begin with. :(

Have a great day brother,
Mike.
In a time where it seems everyone has lost their minds, common sense is a valuable commodity

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