Moogle's TS-877 review

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Trexx
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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by Trexx » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:15 pm

aarbee wrote:@Moogle,
I did read this text at the beginning of your thread:

Code: Select all

Alternatively you can setup to access the qnap VM via network rather than HDMI


What do you mean exactly? RDP?


You can use pretty much any method you normally would for remote system access: RDP, VNC, TeamViewer, or the embedded VS HTML viewer (as long as you are not doing GPU passthrough). If you are doing GPU passthrough, then you need to either install a VNC viewer or use one of the other options I mentioned.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
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NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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aarbee
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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by aarbee » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:18 pm

VNC is slow to, compared to RDP. Not sure why that is.
And single monitor.
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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:17 am

hm Image

ty for the detailed explanations.

i just assumed that the remote option was only that html pop up they provided in virtual situation. they did not explain any other method. maybe it was obvious to the more tech literate, but i was not aware Image

but i'm surprised that rdp can overcome the vm performance penalty that virtio tries to solve somewhat :'
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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Trexx
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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by Trexx » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:58 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:hm Image

ty for the detailed explanations.

i just assumed that the remote option was only that html pop up they provided in virtual situation. they did not explain any other method. maybe it was obvious to the more tech literate, but i was not aware Image

but i'm surprised that rdp can overcome the vm performance penalty that virtio tries to solve somewhat :'


They are solving different things...

VirtIO works to optimize performance within the VM itself as much as possible through emulation/hw offloading as much as possible. Graphics are the most challenging in general to emulate in sw (even with QXL driver).

RDP is a protocol specifically for remote desktop screen/keyboard/mouse (similar to Citrix's ICA protocol).
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:13 pm

Trexx wrote:They are solving different things...

VirtIO works to optimize performance within the VM itself as much as possible through emulation/hw offloading as much as possible. Graphics are the most challenging in general to emulate in sw (even with QXL driver).

RDP is a protocol specifically for remote desktop screen/keyboard/mouse (similar to Citrix's ICA protocol).


i see.. hm..

well so does that mean even if you rdp to connect (to the vm), you would still need to do virtio to improve the vm performance?

because my impression from his comment earlier was that using rdp even without virtio improved performance :' hence my confusion.

as for rdp vs vnc i found this that explained it easily for me :)
https://www.xtontech.com/blog/rdp-vs-vnc-access/


And Aarbee's useful performance comparison between the 2, which i did not test yet myself.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:17 pm

virtualization review *updated

maybe i should create a new thread for this. but anyway..... since i'm testing virtual station, i may as well post my updated experience here.

right now i'm still short of ram, so i'm setting up a windows 10 32bit which i believe can use 2gb ram max? i'm only allocating 1gb ish for now.

I'm expecting new ram to arrive to boost me up to 16gb (8gb x 2 dual channel). When that arrives i can re-do the vm to 64bit then allocate 8gb for vm, and 8gb for the QNAP.

on the QNAP my ram usage tends to fluctuate between 4-6gb, so that should be fine for my qnap use, leaving the rest for vm.

normally i prefer having 16gb on a pc desktop system, but i'm not planning to do too many things on VM at once, so 8gb should be alright.


so anyway, to increase your hdd performance, do the VIRTIO optimization.

before virtio
Image

after virtio optimization
Image

as you can see, virtio is worth using because of the performance increase. You are most likely not going to achieve bare metal performance (meaning non vm performance), but you can at least get closer to it, at least compared to not using virtio.


this is the virtio setup guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNvEaBGc73c



Few things i did differently compared to last time i was setting up QTS virtual station.

1. i use SSD for QTS now. 2 x 256gb m.2 SSD ( 2 x 500gb would have been better :( )
2. installed the VM on a static volume SSD (this is an old intel x25m SSD, but it's still better than a HDD, although it's been far surpassed by much newer ssds since)
3. tested on QTS 4.3.6. virtual station has come a long way since last time i tested. bugs get ironed out etc.




So anyway, i followed the guide to install win10 VM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73podQlom9Y


The loading of the win10 image was a bit slow. But later on after i set everything up and decided later to redo it, i deleted the win10 VM and started over. the 2nd time i tried, things were much faster. I'm not sure why exactly. Only thing i did different was create a DVD rom (IDE) and inserted the win10 img to install from.


pretty happy with the responsiveness of the vm 10 via RDP (which was better than i expected).

I'll test the graphics later when i install more ram. GPU pass through requires more than assigning 1gb ram to use it.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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Moogle Stiltzkin
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Re: Moogle's TS-877 review

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:20 pm

another update for VM.

i switched over from VNC to RDP. gosh ... there is a HUGE difference in performance.

1. better colors
2. video playback works MUCH MUCH better without tearing (this is even without using nvidia graphics fyi)
3. FINALLY i got audio and it works great


the commentary for this i posted here, so i don't have to retype
viewtopic.php?f=318&t=136054&p=718935#p718935


some hardening security tips for RDP usage
https://blog.malwarebytes.com/security- ... e-attacks/
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
[Review] Moogle's QNAP experience
[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

https://www.patreon.com/mooglestiltzkin

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