[review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

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GTunney
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by GTunney » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:38 pm

Have you replace the RAM with something that has actually been tested as compatible?

When I upgraded to an 8GB kit it ticked all the boxes in terms of spec but the NAS didn't like it for some reason.
Model: TS-653B 8GB
FW: 4.4.1.1031 Build: 20190816
Disks: 3 x 4TB Western Digital WD40EFRX - RAID 5
Total Storage: 7.2TB
Applications: Plex MS | QCouchPotato | QSabnzbd+ | QSickrage | QHeadphones | HTPC Manager | Kodi v18.4 MySQL
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Trexx » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:56 pm

Moogle Stiltzkin wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:36 pm
My new ram arrived. gonna install it.


okay installed it then using monitor+ keyboard + mouse, booted up and entered bios, browsed around.

It registered 16gb DDR4 @ 2666MHz

no messing around in bios required. seems to be auto. probably the xmp or whatever equivalent for amd is already enabled.


booting up all the way now, but i don't think there should be a problem :)


yep it works and registers fine

Image

Image

Image


now i can run more apps and vms at the same time and not worry about mem swap all the time :D


first thing i did was install linux station now that i got ample ram :mrgreen:
Image


nvidia graphics card passthrough vm works, but not sure to install here or not. it says it's already using a driver.
Image

*update

don't mess with the graphics driver update. Just use the default that the qnap set it up with. because i updated from screenshot, the VM became inoperative :S


installed mpv video player, switch that to default for video playback, tested watching some x265. It works but there is a lot of tearing. I'm not too familiar with ubuntu, so maybe there is a setting to do to enable the nvidia graphics triple vsync ?

rdp to access the ubuntu vm works, and video is kinda watchable, but you'd still rather just plugin a monitor via HDMI to the installed graphics card for a better smoother experience.

And yes the NAS speakers work, but i'd rather just plug in some proper speakers.


anyway the new ubuntu on QTS 4.4.1 works fine. tested :)



gonna test virtual station win10 and give it 8gb ram
XMP is an Intel spec, not an AMD Ryzen one.

In terms of GPU Passthrough, there are 2 parts.

QTS: Install NV Kernel Driver & NV GPU drivers, set GPU HW to VM mode (may require reboot)
VM: Set GPU Passthrough on VM Settings, don't mess with other GPU driver setting (QXL/etc.) . Using connected monitor & keyboard to QNAP (not RDP connection), download/install Nvidia drivers from NVidia Website into Win10 VM and install them.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Trexx » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:58 pm

Also... please change questions where you are looking for feedback/direction to RED text. There is WAY too much information/commentary in the posts and they come too fast for me to try and keep up with them. Too many things on my plate right now between work travel, learning, home, etc. to have time to sit down and read everything :)

That is why I haven't been as active on the forums of late as normal.
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAS RAID Rebuild Times | Live QTS Videos | | QNAP NAS Guide | Information needed when you ask for HELP | QNAP Links, Tutorials, etc.
2018 Plex NAS Compatibility Guide | QNAP Plex FAQ | Moogle's QNAP Faq

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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:20 am

Trexx wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:58 pm
...
i realize, my bad Image

sorry dun mind me, just answer what you are comfortable with and at your own pace.

i'll try highlight them next time to make it easier *done

QTS: Install NV Kernel Driver & NV GPU drivers, set GPU HW to VM mode (may require reboot)
VM: Set GPU Passthrough on VM Settings, don't mess with other GPU driver setting (QXL/etc.) . Using connected monitor & keyboard to QNAP (not RDP connection), download/install Nvidia drivers from NVidia Website into Win10 VM and install them.
o right i forgot. yeah i'm suppose to switch the setting to the VM mode, doh.

GTunney wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:38 pm
Have you replace the RAM with something that has actually been tested as compatible?

When I upgraded to an 8GB kit it ticked all the boxes in terms of spec but the NAS didn't like it for some reason.
yeah it should be, trex uses the same but 32gb.

Code: Select all

https://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=148720&start=15#p716642
i'll do that next. memtest86 right?

Code: Select all

https://www.memtest86.com/

Code: Select all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_xFNojChNA
It's possible it's ram (although i'm unsure), because since i reinitialized, this is the first time it random booted afaik, and this occured a couple of hours after i installed the new ram :'



i think the ram seller may have just sold me the single stick ddr4 so i end up buying both from him (very sneaky becauz they don't explicitly say its the dual kit model by leaving out the product serial, instead they put a pic of the 2 sticks side by side). so no i dont think this is the 8x2 ddr4 kit, but rather 1x8 + 1x8 single ddr4 sticks. but they are the same kingston hyperx fury, same mem, so technically they should still work fine even in dual channel. or at least when i checked online people said it would be fine :'


the new ram i got installed is either one of these, not sure (but both are on the Ryzen compatibility list)

Kingston Technology HyperX Fury Black 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM 1Rx8 (HX426C16FB2/8)
https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX426C16FB2_8.pdf

HyperX Kingston Technology Fury Black 16GB 2666MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM Kit of 2 1Rx8 (HX426C16FB2K2/16)

AMD Ryzen and HyperX Compatibility

HyperX is a division of Kingston.

The HyperX memory team has done extensive compatibility testing on AMD Ryzen™ platforms. Based on our lab testing and work with the motherboard vendors, we have compiled a list of parts we recommend to help you get the most out of your AMD Ryzen™ system.

We expect these modules and kits to work at the factory tested and programmed speeds, timings, and voltage, however some system boards may limit memory speed and/or timings based on the board design and BIOS. Other factors, such as power supply and cooling will affect potential memory performance.

Most AMD Ryzen™ and Ryzen™ Threadripper™ processors are limited to a maximum safe overclock speed of 3200MHz, and are limited by the type of DIMM needed to achieve this speed (Sin-gle Rank “1R” versus Dual Rank “2R”) and the number of DIMMs installed per memory channel. In some cases, 2nd generation Ryzen™ proces-sors and motherboards will slightly improve overclock performance over 1st generation. Continual refinements to BIOS and motherboard

design have enabled better memory support and faster speeds on some models. Please check with your motherboard or system manu-facturer for the latest supported memory speeds (QVL).Note: Installing the latest BIOS may resolve initial compatibility or performance issues. FURY Plug N Play DIMMs and Impact “PnP” SO-DIMMs are designed to operate at factory overclocked speeds using standard DDR4 1.2V out of the box. On most AMD Ryzen™ systems the memory will default to the industry standard (JEDEC) speed and timings. In order to achieve the factory overclock speed, please select memory Profile 1 from within the BIOS to force the factory overclock settings. A second, less demanding memory Profile 2 is also available if Profile 1 is not stable.

If you have any configuration questions please contact our support team at hyperxgaming.com/support.
https://media.kingston.com/pdfs/hx-prod ... ity-us.pdf
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/memory/fury-ddr4

Article posted 2 yrs ago

The HyperX Fury DDR4 Memory is Kingston’s mainstream gaming DDR4 series meant to be an easy-to-use, widely compatible memory solution for various platforms. Initially available for Intel 100-series, 200-series and X99 chipset series mainboards, HyperX has now expanded the range, capacity and support to include the newly released AMD Ryzen platform.

The expanded HyperX Fury DDR4 memory range includes speeds at 2133, 2400 as well as 2666MHz with latencies from CL16 to CL18 and 8GB to 64GB capacities. Each HyperX Fury DDR4 module measures 133.35mm x 34.04mm which makes it slightly taller than bare PCB but its heatspreader is not unusually tall that it prevents most air cooler installations. It is also available in various color heatspreader options (black, white, red, and blue) so that users can mix-and-match and color-coordinate with their system colors.

Image

Support for the AMD Ryzen platform currently includes the following part numbers. These should work out of the box with most Ryzen motherboards as of March 30, although some might require some BIOS/UEFI update to be fully compatible:

FURY DDR4 2666MHz Timing Change Black Heat Spreader (as of March 20, update UEFI to latest)
-HX426C16FB2/8
-HX426C16FB2K2/16
https://www.eteknix.com/hyperx-expands- ... n-support/

ziptofaf

You see, most of the RAM you see on the planet, regardless of the brand (be it HyperX/Corsair/G.Skill/whatever) comes from one of the few manufacturers - Hynix, Samsung, Micron and Toshiba.

Most commonly when it comes to higher specced RAM you will see Hynix or Samsung being used.

Now, it seems that Samsung B dies (specific type produced by Samsung) seems to work really great on Ryzen (and in general has superior specs to competition so you can see results like 3200 MHz bundled with low CL) as they boot up at their rated speeds without any issues. You will find it being used in G.Skil TridentZ mostly, some G.Skill Ripjaws and certain versions of Corsair sticks apparently come with it too.

At the same time Ryzen seems to like Hynix memory less. It's a bit harder to get it to work (although not impossible as it was 2 months ago when people were stuck with 2133/2400 MHz despite using 3200 MHz RAM) - you can for instance expect XMP profiles to not load and will need to play with timings manually to get to your rated (or near rated) speed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6 ... ung_b_die/

Samsung B-Die Memory Production Ceased, Replaced by A-Die

B-Die memory types have been the preferred memory for overclocked and alike, offering lower timings and high clocks at the same voltage as other competing types.

Ryzen CPUs favor higher clocked memory, providing a fair performance gain over DDR4-2133 and DDR4-2400. This is due to AMD’s Infinity Fabric design, with the Infinity Fabric internally running at the same clocks as the DDR4 modules installed. B-Die memory has also proven to have better compatibility with 1st-Generation Ryzen CPUs, creating demand from Ryzen CPU users.

Intel CPUs benefit less from increased memory speed, only providing an increase in performance by a small percentage in workstation tasks.

As far as overclocking goes, at this time, A-Die struggles to meet the same performance level that B-Die memory had proven to reach. It is possible Samsung could alter A-Die to mimic B-Die’s performance, whether it’s through binning or a design change, but it is possible that the market could see an increased price for higher clocked, high-performance memories.
https://wccftech.com/samsung-b-die-memo ... ung-a-die/


not sure what kingston uses. but it at least says it's compatible for the Ryzen :'

yes i should be running the latest Agesa in the ts-877 bios which added better memory compatibility. unless there was a new bios update i was unaware of? which i don't think is the case.


QVL is qualified Vendor list, not qualified ram list. There's only a few actual ram OEMs, like Samsung, SkHynix, Micron etc. They manufacture all the ram for every vendor. The serial number on the ram covers a bunch of different scenarios. F4-3000C16D-16GISB for instance is G-skill Aegis, F4 (ddr4)-3000MHz-Cas16-D(?) 16Gb kit-I(?) S(single rank) - B(black). You can have the exact same ram F4-3000C16D-16GISR except its red. Just in g-skill Trident-Z 3200 alone is 5 different models, 8 colors, +rgb, in 4 different kits, 3 different Cas. If you add it all up, there's over 200 different individual serial numbers just in the Trident-Z alone. Then add the value, Aegis, sniper, RipJaws IV, RipJaws V etc and g-skill alone has thousands of different serial numbers. Multiply that by all the different speeds and sizes. Then add Adata, Patriot, Crucial, Kingston and all the rest and you'd have a little old man spending thousands of man hours to make a QVL thousands of pages long, testing the same 10 ram over and over, since they all come from the same 10 places, using the same 10 OEM IC chips.

Kinda absolutely pointless. So mobo vendors will grab a few sticks from a few different kits in each size, maybe a few donated prototypes and test them. That's all.

In almost 40 years of dropping ram into pc's, I don't think I've ever once had a single stick that was actually exactly QVL. Same speed, same vendor, but it was red, or blue or Cas10 and the QVL had black Cas 9.

Don't rely on QVL as gospel, you'll be disappointed. It's just a tool really that says that a variety of different sticks and kits will work as promised. If your exact number isn't on it, it really is, you just have a different color. Different speed. Different kit. But it's all the same ram, just under a different named heatsink from a different vendor.

DOCP is an AMD thing, XMP is Intel eXtreme Memory Profile. It amounts to the same thing.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... n.3467258/



Kingston DRAM Manufacturing Tour (dated 2012)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWDirCg-Wu8



*update

confirmed from the label on the physical stick that mine is this
Kingston Technology HyperX Fury Black 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM 1Rx8 (HX426C16FB2/8)
https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX426C16FB2_8.pdf
Spider99 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:24 pm
Hi Welcome

if their not on the compatibility list with qnap (which is only updated irregularly) then you have to be careful you get exactly the same spec as the existing ram you have in your nas - voltage appears to be very important

Also make sure they are a matched pair or quad - as people have had trouble with "mixed" dimms even though they are the same version but not matched

personally i would go with the higher quality ram as a starting point

Search the forums you might find someone who has done it before

Symptoms of non compatibility are - does not boot, wont turn on, crashing, odd system performance etc

Try and get your ram on a "try first" option if you can find a friendly supplier

Good Luck
viewtopic.php?f=182&t=126233&p=570315&h ... ry#p570325


care to elaborate? i only managed to snag 2x single sticks of 8gb of the same ram model, and then install it as a dual channel in the NAS. I did not get the DUAL KIT, seller product description was vague and misleading. But i thought this did not matter as much as long as they are the same exact ram model (specifically HX426C16FB2/8). are you saying it won't work? :'


i could try changing the profile to see if that changes anything, but i don't know how to do that in bios :S or even if that would help or not
In order to achieve the factory overclock speed, please select memory Profile 1 from within the BIOS to force the factory overclock settings. A second, less demanding memory Profile 2 is also available if Profile 1 is not stable.
Image
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3180511 ... mance.html
https://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/ ... d-it-2017/
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD ... ide/5.html


i can try beg Image kingston to see if they would consider swapping these sticks for the dual kit. when i did the same with Corsair last time, no questions asked they just replaced. shipping was fast too. In fact, i got a free upgrade :mrgreen: (https://forum.lowyat.net/style_emoticon ... lt/wub.gif ). Not sure about Kingston Image. My only experience with them in the past was a desktop ram that failed :( lel...
Standard replacement:
Customer returns the defective product to Kingston before the replacement part is shipped. Subject to availability, the replacement part will be shipped to the customer on the following business day of the product being received.
https://www.kingston.com/en/support/rma-enduser

Code: Select all

https://www.howtogeek.com/175850/how-to-rma-a-defective-product/
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:54 am, edited 17 times in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:14 am

it rebooted again -.-;

i'm gonna try downgrade to 4.3.6 stable and see if that changes anything.

4.3.6.0959 build 20190531
https://www.qnap.com/en/download?model= ... y=firmware

but then you get this scary disclaimer message. makes me have 2nd thoughts about wanting to do that :S and considering the ts-653a is working stable with qts 4.4.1 makes me doubt it's an issue related to this new qts.
Image


OR,

i can switch back to the old default ram and see if the problem happens again or not?
:' (since the reinit, i didn't have any random reboot with the old ram since. or maybe i got lucky and didn't leave the nas running long enough?)


anyway this is what logs showed. it just suddenly said file system unclean all of a sudden, and that is when the NAS restarted on it's own :S
Image

Image


only difference between this and the previous random reboot, is that system unclean only affected vol1 this time around. the previous one affected all 3 volumes :' also i did not see any mention of raid resync/rebuild this time around.


when i first installed the new ram, i followed the instructions and inserted the 2x8gb ddr4 sticks into the dual channel slots. they were inserted correctly and were snapped into place. i didn't change anything in bios, but i did look that it was registered there as 16gb



GTunney is probably right that the issue is ram related
viewtopic.php?f=182&t=141975&p=703670&h ... ot#p703670

either
1. the rams are spoiled
2. they aren't compatible .....
3. they aren't seated right when installing them (but i thought i did it right, i even smoothly and gently applied pressure evenly along it, after it finished inserting it and hearing the clicks on both side clips. so i doubt seating is the issue :' )

eitherway i'm scre-wed since there is no refund :(


but i'm still in the midst of troubleshooting atm, so i'll comment more on this later once i see what happens from the test results.


*update

added back the original ram (yes followed the instructions and inserted into the correct slot), booted qnap up.

in lcd it says bios checking ram, then hardware initialization, then it boots up as normal.

leaving the NAS system running and seeing if this random reboots still occurs or not
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:58 am

I was double checking why trexx's ram works, and the main difference besides the capacity size is that his is the DUAL KIT
I don't think he needed to change anything in bios for it to work. so i'll just have to RMA and get the kit replacement (if that is possible).

Using identical kits is a good start, and it would potentially increase your odds of it working, but its still going to be up in the air until you actually do it.

Personally, I couldnt afford 16GB for my system so Im planning on the same thing, if it doesn't work ill just prime return the new kit and get a proper kit later, since RAM prices are predicted to drop in the near future.
Ram is sold in kits for a reason.

A motherboard must manage all the ram using the same specs of voltage, cas and speed.

The internal workings are designed for the capacity of the kit.

Ram from the same vendor and part number can be made up of differing manufacturing components over time.

Some motherboards, can be very sensitive to this.

This is more difficult when more sticks are involved.

That is why ram vendors will NOT support ram that is not bought in one kit.

If you do buy more disparate sticks, they must be the same speed, voltage and cas numbers.
Even then your chances of working are less than 100%


What is your plan "B" if the new stick/s do not work?

Sometimes increasing the ram voltage in the bios will make things work.

If you want 32gb, my suggestion is to buy a 2 x 16gb kit that matches your current specs.

Then, try adding in your old 16gb,
If it works, good; you now have extra ram.

If not, sell the old ram or keep it as a spare.

If it works, you will still be operating in dual channel mode with 4 slots populated.
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/84 ... l-channel/
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... k.3358166/
https://superuser.com/questions/1110030 ... -128gb-ram


so it's my own fault for not checking it's the dual kit version Image so don't make the same mistake i did Image

Once i get the dual kit replacement, i'll see if that works and report back. Until then, i'm using the stock ram while i wait Image (assuming it's not faulty too, which is what i am testing right now. but chances are it is because of the tell tale signs... thats why i replaced the ram to begin with)



*update

got the memtest86 running on the ts-877 (testing on the old original single ram stick). looking at the output screen no errors... yet. only completed 2/4 passes so far.

is the free version of memtest86 thorough or is the pro version required?
:'
MemTest86 detected errors in my memory. Is there something wrong with my RAM?
Please be aware that not all errors reported by MemTest86 are due to bad memory. The test implicitly tests the CPU, L1 and L2 caches as well as the motherboard. It is impossible for the test to determine what causes the failure to occur. However, most failures will be due to a problem with memory module. When it is not, the only option is to replace parts until the failure is corrected.

Sometimes memory errors show up due to component incompatibility. A memory module may work fine in one system and not in another. This is not uncommon and is a source of confusion. In these situations the components are not necessarily bad but have marginal conditions that when combined with other components will cause errors.

Often the memory works in a different system or the vendor insists that it is good. In these cases the memory is not necessarily bad but is not able to operate reliably at full speed. Sometimes more conservative memory timings on the motherboard will correct these errors. In other cases the only option is to replace the memory with better quality, higher speed memory. Don't buy cheap memory and expect it to work reliably. On occasion "block move" test errors will occur even with name brand memory and a quality motherboard. These errors are legitimate and should be corrected.

All valid memory errors should be corrected. It is possible that a particular error will never show up in normal operation. However, operating with marginal memory is risky and can result in data loss and even disk corruption. Even if there is no overt indication of problems you cannot assume that your system is unaffected. Sometimes intermittent errors can cause problems that do not show up for a long time. You can be sure that Murphy will get you if you know about a memory error and ignore it.

We are often asked about the reliability of errors reported by MemTest86. In the vast majority of cases errors reported by the test are valid. There are some systems that cause MemTest86 to be confused about the size of memory and it will try to test non-existent memory. This will cause a large number of consecutive addresses to be reported as bad and generally there will be many bits in error. If you have a relatively small number of failing addresses and only one or two bits in error you can be certain that the errors are valid. Also intermittent errors are without exception valid. Frequently memory vendors question if MemTest86 supports their particular memory type or a chipset. MemTest86 is designed to work with all memory types and all chipsets.

MemTest86 cannot diagnose many types of PC failures. For example a faulty CPU that causes Windows to crash will most likely just cause MemTest86 to crash in the same way.
https://www.memtest86.com/troubleshooting.htm
They started with the same code. I do use the one here -- https://www.memtest86.com/ but I think you would be OK with either. The commercial one has a GUI and a few other features. But the basic tests are similar.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... e.3374817/



*update

memtest86 came back with negative on the original ram. No issues detected :'

what other things can cause similar issues? was it simply just that 1 hdd? i'll leave the nas running on the old ram for now and see if it random reboots or not.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by GTunney » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:10 pm

Don't forget I also memtest86 with my RAM and it passed all tests after leaving it for over 12 hours.

It was just simply a compatibility issue between the NAS and RAM. My NAS has still not rebooted since I swapped mine out.

I would advise to get something that is listed as compatible by the manufacturer.

https://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/compatibl ... ORYFilters
Model: TS-653B 8GB
FW: 4.4.1.1031 Build: 20190816
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:14 pm

GTunney wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:10 pm
Don't forget I also memtest86 with my RAM and it passed all tests after leaving it for over 12 hours.
wow... i didn't know you had to run it that long on an infinite loop. i just let it run on the default, it just started testing and did the tests 4 times. the youtube guy explaining how memtest86 worked did mention some errors only occurring on a hot stick, but he didn't mention about extending the test from default :shock: i thought that was enough, guess not...

o well, all good for now i hope. thx for the clarification now i know better 8)
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Trexx » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 pm

When I was building VMWARE hosts, we would run memtest+ for 48-72 hours to pass memory.


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Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
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Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by spikemixture » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 pm

Is there a step by step instruction to set up Qumagie ?

I cannot get any pic folder saved.
Qnap TS-1277 1700 6x8TB WD White, 2x8TB WD Red - Raid5,, 2x M.2 Crucial 1TB (Raid 1 VM),
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:07 am

Trexx wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:14 pm
When I was building VMWARE hosts, we would run memtest+ for 48-72 hours to pass memory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dang guess i got to run it again then.

I found a guide for how to change the passes ( i used the default 4 passes)
https://www.overclockersclub.com/guides ... &pid=97953

@3:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UWzjqb6uwM


By default MemTest86 will stop after 4 passes (typically a couple of hours).
If it runs 24h without error, the chance are low that real memory errors will be detected beyond this period.

Eventually if you test long enough you'll get a soft error however.
we have the same problem as described. After some hours, spantanoues one of the 13 test fails. It is fully happenstance which one. Sometimes the one and if we restart the test, after the 72 hours or more an other test fail.
We'll clearly the RAM isn't reliable over a long period. To some degree this is just the nature of DRAM, and the reason error correcting ECC RAM was created. See my comment about soft errors above. But you should be able to get an error free period longer than "some hours". I would be tempted to go back to the vendor and ask for the detailed specs for the RAM you are using and find out what error rates are expected in long term use. If you see rates higher than the specs, then it is faulty.
https://www.passmark.com/forum/memtest8 ... #post42817

I got 1 error, What does it mean? (thank you)
Might be a "Soft Error" or the RAM might be bad.

Maybe run the test again to see if you get the same error (check to see if the Bits in Error Mask is the same on the 2nd run, as if it is the same it is likely not a random fault).
https://www.passmark.com/forum/memtest8 ... -thank-you



*update

free version is limited to 4 passes...... :S does running the test for another 4 passes.... with little delay in between as soon as possible another 4 passes continuously for 72 hours count the same thing? or do i need the pro version to run 999 passes?

https://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes- ... rsion.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/c ... asses_now/
https://superuser.com/questions/547822/ ... th-memtest

*update

nm i found the pro. running it now 999 passes *hope thats enuff :' to my understanding as long as it runs 72 hours or so, i can end the test part way through the passes. only thing that matters is if there is an error count of more than 0? in case i misunderstood how this worked :)




yeah it happened again on the OLD original ram still.


GTunney wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:10 pm
Don't forget I also memtest86 with my RAM and it passed all tests after leaving it for over 12 hours.

It was just simply a compatibility issue between the NAS and RAM. My NAS has still not rebooted since I swapped mine out.

I would advise to get something that is listed as compatible by the manufacturer.

https://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/compatibl ... ORYFilters

Atm i'm trying to get a refund for the NON dual kit kingston fury ram.

not sure i should get the same (i liked it, came with a cool heatsink, although online says for ram this is not really required), cause if it doesn't work.... i'm not sure there's gonna be a refund for that.


On the crucial site they claim 100% compatibility for TS-877 and even a 40 ish days full refund if it doesn't work
https://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ts-877/CT12584776

I'm not too familiar with Kingston RMA, so i don't know if they will accept a refund if it doesn't work. does anyone have experience with them?

sure the qnap store has ram but at those prices :( .... and even i'm not sure i'd get the necessary support needed if there is still an issue .....

Image



but yeah this issue usually crops up within 72 hours usually. it doesn't always happen within a few hours, sometimes it takes a bit longer before nas random reboots :S




just a recap on troubleshoot

- the problem is one or more of these things occurring randomly and regularly ( system unclean check file system, random reboot, raid synchronization, raid rebuilding )
- this trouble started occurring sometime after updating to qts 4.4.1 but in hindsight, prior to this, i did have some unexplained random reboots, but not nearly as often as now, or that i was aware of since i wasn't looking too closely at the logs.
- ram is highly suspected. due to not running memtest86 long enough, we can toss those results and await the new test results running for 72 hours or more. (pending)
- in logs the only hdd that ever got called out was a hdd4 hgst deskstar nas 4tb. this has since been replaced with a wd red 4tb.
- all hdds have long smart test , scandisk, and zero fill formated
- NAS is running QTS 4.4.1 and has already reinitialized cleanly (i did not do a dom recovery since i don't believe i ever got a malware issue, so was unecessary). fyi i got qts 4.4.1 running on ts-653a and it is stable, so i don't believe this issue to be qts 4.4.1 related.
- also the QTS has been installed in 2x256gb samsung ssd raid1.
- the random shutdowns still happen even when qts is run from the ssd's instead of hdds (after the renit). which makes me think that the ssd and hdds are not to blame. and is something else.
- i tried replacing the ram with kingston hyperx fury 16gb, but these were 2 x single sticks. NOT DUAL KIT. and it still had the random reboot issue. Considering it's not dual kit, chances are this is a simple matter of incompatible ram..... I need a different ram i can trust to be fully compatible for ts-877 to switch to, to see if it fixes the random reboots. (pending)
- yes i reported this to helpdesk in detail since last week. so far they said they found nothing. i provided dump logs to them as requested, and prior to renit we had a remote session active. For now all the advise i got is to report when it happens and send them the dump logs. i understand they need the data to analyze. Hopefully there is some more definitive answers as to what to do. Cannot have the NAS unstable and constantly rebooting randomly. NAS is unusable like this. (pending)
- thought it virtual switches could be a possible cause, so i removed them. but i still got the random reboot.

other suspicion (not very sure on this..... but what else is there)
- PSU ?
- CPU ?
- raid controller ?
Last edited by Moogle Stiltzkin on Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:01 pm, edited 20 times in total.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 am

spikemixture wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 pm
Is there a step by step instruction to set up Qumagie ?

I cannot get any pic folder saved.
you have to install qumagie, which should install qumagie core (media library in appcenter)

then in multimedia console assign your qumagie media content folders to index.

then in multimedia console under AI is what indexes to qumagie. The thumbnail portion should apply to qumagie as well i believe. So you need to do index and thumbnail generation as well.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:31 am

By the way is it normal if the kingston ram shows in bios 2667mhz ? (but the product page specification said 2666mhz)

cauz i was reading online this
If you see rates higher than the specs, then it is faulty.
is that a sign that the ram is faulty?
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Trexx » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:38 am

Just an FYI, did see reboot issue related to an hbs update pre hbs 3 beta.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Paul

Model: TS-877-1600 FW: 4.4.1.x
QTier (HDD): [RAID-5] 6 x 3TB HGST DeskStar NAS QTier (SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 1TB WD Blue m.2's
(SSD): [RAID-1] 2 x 500GB Evo 860
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 64GB DDR4-2666
GPU: EVGA GTX 1060, ACX 2.0(1 Fan), 6GB
UPS: CyberPower AVR1350 Ext. Backup: USB 3.0 Seagate 5TB
Media Boxes: Nvidia ShieldTV Pro, AppleTV 4k, Various Roku's

Model: TVS-673 32GB FW: 4.4.1.x Test/Backup Box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [review] QNAP QTS 4.4.1 by Moogle

Post by Moogle Stiltzkin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:27 pm

Trexx wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:38 am
Just an FYI, did see reboot issue related to an hbs update pre hbs 3 beta.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
eh there is?

yeah i have hbs 3 on both the ts-877 and ts-653a. next i boot up i can try remove hbs 3 n see if that does anything.


*update
hm 9 hours+ no errors yet on memtest86 pro



on my laptop now cause the monitor is used by the qnap :(




anyway just going through the forums and reddit for other possible causes. downgrading firmware seemed like one possible solution (although i'd probably do a reinit if it comes to that.... not sure how stable a dirty downgrade is considering the qnap disclaimers warning against that)

https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... ting_down/
I think it was established long ago that this (despite the topic) isn't really related to scrubbing but possibly rather to an increase of activity/load in some systems.

It could be anything, internal system activity or user initiated activity. As far as I've seen, most reports here suggest that there have been active jobs being performed when the reboots occur. Qnap support seem to be actively working on some cases to try and track the issue down but at this point nobody in this community know anything, we can only speculate based on the reports.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=139682&p=695691&hi ... ot#p695691

viewtopic.php?f=142&t=141461&p=673539&h ... ot#p673316

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=136414&hilit=random+reboot

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=132964&p=620139&hi ... ot#p617337

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=129724&p=595094&hi ... ot#p595094

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=126307&p=590577&hi ... ot#p590577

psybernoid

I too had issues rebooting my TS-653A, basically the same model as yours but with a couple of extra drive bays.

Turned out, the problem was with the helpdesk app. I disabled that and haven't had any reboot issues since.
https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... _problems/

https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... rebooting/

https://www.reddit.com/r/qnap/comments/ ... n_its_own/


*note: some of these issues got fixed, so may no longer be relevant. but i'm using it as material for POSSIBLE causes if the ram and hdds are cleared for causing these random reboots.
NAS
[Main Server] QNAP TS-877 w. 4tb [ 3x HGST Deskstar NAS (HDN724040ALE640) & 1x WD RED NAS ] EXT4 Raid5 & 2 x m.2 SATA Samsung 850 Evo raid1 + 16gb ddr4 Crucial + QWA-AC2600 wireless adapter.
[Backup] QNAP TS-653A w. 5x 2TB Samsung F3 (HD203WI) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-659 Pro II 1x 4TB HGST Deskstar NAS
[^] QNAP TS-509 Pro w. 4x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS) EXT4 Raid5
[^] QNAP TS-228 w. 1x 1TB WD RE3 (WD1002FBYS)
[^] QNAP TS-128
Mobile NAS TBS-453DX w. 2x Crucial MX500 500gb EXT4 raid1

Network
Asus AC68U Router|100dl/50ul MBPS FTTH Internet | Windows 10, WC PC-Intel i7 920 Ivy bridge desktop (1x 512gb Samsung 850 Pro SSD + 1x 4tb HGST Ultrastar 7K4000)


Guides & articles
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[Review] Moogle's TS-877 review

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